Self Denial in everything

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**Our Lord to Bl. Anna Maria Tiagi: " My daughter, spiritual profit consists neither in penance, nor in the frequentation of the Sacraments, nay, not even in abiding sorrow for sin, but in the union of your will with Mine. Those who wish to follow My way must renounce their own will everywhere and in all things. Do what you do not wish to do; leave undone what you wish to do; one act of violence to oneself of this kind is much more pleasing to Me than an entire year of penances. You must not for the future use such language as: ‘I want this; that is pleasant, that other thing unpleasant, and I would rather not do it’—such is the language of the world." “She herself,” comments Cardinal Pedicini, “interpreted the necessity of renunciation in the following words: ‘To acquire the love of God one must pull against the stream and never cease to resist one’s own will’.” **

If I read this right, the only way we can be spiritually meritorious is to deny our wills in everything, everywhere, without stopping or burn-out; because to “indulge” our wills in the smallest, inconsequential thing is to either sin, or leads to effeminacy. either we deny ourselves of everything or we should just pack up and quit (which is not what I’m advocating, nor do I intend to.)
Am I reading into too far or this actual fact? I have no idea what I’m getting myself into!
 
Isn’t this the same thing as somewhere in the gospels when Jesus says to someone they had to let go of everything in order to be his follower. Let go of possessions, family, all that the world has to offer in essence? This is what I’m getting from the original post.
Happy Thanksgiving day to you and yours.
 
If I read this right, the only way we can be spiritually meritorious is to deny our wills in everything, everywhere, without stopping or burn-out; because to “indulge” our wills in the smallest, inconsequential thing is to either sin, or leads to effeminacy. either we deny ourselves of everything or we should just pack up and quit (which is not what I’m advocating, nor do I intend to.)
Am I reading into too far or this actual fact? I have no idea what I’m getting myself into!
No that would not be the correct way to go…not the right way in the Spiritual Life…it would be to interpret self denial in a way that would head one in the wrong direction.

(take great care when reading various writings of Blesseds and Saints or alleged ones -even in terms of possible private revelation from God or Our Lady et al…one can misconstrue things -especially when phrased in particular ways and from particular times…even words of Our Lord in Scripture must be understood correctly - some being rather hyperbolic)

Remember God wills our good…it is not going contrary to the will of God to use our freedom in the right way…and receive and enjoy various goods from God.

Yes self denial is important in the Christian life but one must take care to understand it and live it in the right way.

And as our Lord taught us we pray “Thy will be done”…that will includes too rather things we ourselves do right in willing (and rather will ourselves)…God gives us much in life that he wills us to receive…

And yes there is great grace in the Sacraments Jesus gave us and their is good in various spiritual practices…such is what the Church Teaches and one must understand what your asking in that light…sort of a way of speaking to bring emphasis on something (such as that we are to do the will of God…Thy will be done…)
 
As St. Paul notes in Sacred Scripture:

God * “richly furnishes us with everything to enjoy”.*

Doing so in the right way of course (not via sin) - such is part of the will of God for us.

Let us keep that in mind…along with the right understanding of self denial etc.

And let us “and be thankful” too…as Paul tells us.
 
As St. Paul notes in Sacred Scripture:

God * “richly furnishes us with everything to enjoy”.*

Doing so in the right way of course (not via sin) - such is part of the will of God for us.

Let us keep that in mind…along with the right understanding of self denial etc.

And let us “and be thankful” too…as Paul tells us.
well that someone clarifies it, I was about to dump my electronics into the garbage (which I should probably do one of these days.) But what does doing God’s will consist of? (y’know, other than the 12 spiritual works of mercy, praying & fasting and trying hard not to damn myself.)
 
**Our Lord to Bl. Anna Maria Tiagi: " My daughter, spiritual profit consists neither in penance, nor in the frequentation of the Sacraments, nay, not even in abiding sorrow for sin, but in the union of your will with Mine. Those who wish to follow My way must renounce their own will everywhere and in all things. Do what you do not wish to do; leave undone what you wish to do; one act of violence to oneself of this kind is much more pleasing to Me than an entire year of penances. You must not for the future use such language as: ‘I want this; that is pleasant, that other thing unpleasant, and I would rather not do it’—such is the language of the world." “She herself,” comments Cardinal Pedicini, “interpreted the necessity of renunciation in the following words: ‘To acquire the love of God one must pull against the stream and never cease to resist one’s own will’.” **

If I read this right, the only way we can be spiritually meritorious is to deny our wills in everything, everywhere, without stopping or burn-out; because to “indulge” our wills in the smallest, inconsequential thing is to either sin, or leads to effeminacy. either we deny ourselves of everything or we should just pack up and quit (which is not what I’m advocating, nor do I intend to.)
Am I reading into too far or this actual fact? I have no idea what I’m getting myself into!
This is not saying that to do our own will is sinful, but simply that God is more pleased when we deny ourselves and do His will. But you can’t paint that black and white, it must be guided by prudence, which is the guardian virtue of all other virtues, and you must have a better understanding of what kind of self denial is good, and what it means to follow Gods will…there are books which explain these things, which I will link a few for you, but most importantly, if you suffer from scrupulosity, then you need to consult with a priest, and do whatever he says, because when one has a mind that is troubled with scrupulosity, they need someone who has the ability to think more clearly and rationally to guide them, and I would even go so far as to say that you are better off consulting only with your spiritual director, because to get advice for things from different people can lead to confusion, or give you opportunities to pick whatever advise more satisfies your scrupulous compulsions.
(My husband is scrupulous so i deal with it alot)

But aside from that, it is good to want to deny ourselves and do/accept Gods will in all things, but it is a learning process, so you need to be patient, don’t rush into anything, to act on something before you have full understanding of it is like trying to find your way through the woods at night, you might have the intention to go the right way and do what is prudent, but if you can’t see the way then you’re bound to get lost.
God is most pleased simply when we try without giving up, no matter how many times we fall, as long as we keep trying to move forward, then He can guide us, so don’t be over anxious to be perfect all at once, just reach for perfection at an easy pace,
And try not to focus so much on your sins and how you’re offending God, instead try to think of what pleases God, because when we’re constantly thinking of our own sins and faults and have we committed a mortal or venial sin and how many times did i do that, etc. etc., it’s an excessive amount of thoughts on yourself, which the devil loves to incoarage, in fact, the devil would like you to think of anything at all, even your own sins, as long as it’s not God you’re thinking of.
Of course it’s important to examine our consciences, but I’m simply referring to overdoing it.

Well anyways, here are those books I wanted to recommend -
tanbooks.com/index.php/catalogsearch/result/?attr=0&q=Trustful+surender
tanbooks.com/index.php/catalogsearch/result/?attr=0&q=Divine+providence
tanbooks.com/index.php/the-holy-will-of-god-source-of-peace-and-happiness.html

Ok, hope this helps, take care
 
Because you are scrupulous, it is not prudent for you to deny yourself in EVERYTHING without the care of a spiritual director. You’ll go crazy.

Start only with the minimum the Church requires, such as the one-hour Eucharistic fast, the Friday penance, the Lenten disciplines, and whatever penances your confessor imposes on you during Confession.

Then outside of that, you do the St. Augustine principle: Love God and do as you please. That includes a moderate indulgence in games, entertainment, junk food, and even a beer every so often.

But trying to deny yourself EVERYTHING is the wrong start, at least, for you.

The saints cannot be your spiritual directors. If you cannot or will not find one who is currently drawing breath, then do not attempt any mortifications past what the Church requires. In other words, start at the baseline and no more, not without guidance.

Your FIRST, and currently, ONLY goal right now, is to find healing for your scrupulosity.
 
well that someone clarifies it, I was about to dump my electronics into the garbage (which I should probably do one of these days.) But what does doing God’s will consist of? (y’know, other than the 12 spiritual works of mercy, praying & fasting and trying hard not to damn myself.)
That is a wide subject…and involves too rather personal aspects …

But certainly for all -

Live the Christian life…live the reality of being a son in the Son…of being loved by God…of following Christ…

Living as a Christian in Christ - in him is* true life*.

Your confessor can assist you.
 
**Our Lord to Bl. Anna Maria Tiagi: " My daughter, spiritual profit consists neither in penance, nor in the frequentation of the Sacraments, nay, not even in abiding sorrow for sin, but in the union of your will with Mine. Those who wish to follow My way must renounce their own will everywhere and in all things. Do what you do not wish to do; leave undone what you wish to do; one act of violence to oneself of this kind is much more pleasing to Me than an entire year of penances. You must not for the future use such language as: ‘I want this; that is pleasant, that other thing unpleasant, and I would rather not do it’—such is the language of the world." “She herself,” comments Cardinal Pedicini, “interpreted the necessity of renunciation in the following words: ‘To acquire the love of God one must pull against the stream and never cease to resist one’s own will’.” **

If I read this right, the only way we can be spiritually meritorious is to deny our wills in everything, everywhere, without stopping or burn-out; because to “indulge” our wills in the smallest, inconsequential thing is to either sin, or leads to effeminacy. either we deny ourselves of everything or we should just pack up and quit (which is not what I’m advocating, nor do I intend to.)
Am I reading into too far or this actual fact? I have no idea what I’m getting myself into!
First, this is addressed to a saint; this is something we work up to, not start off with.

Second, we must *be willing *to do what God asks of us, not just give everything up without considering God’s will for us. If God wants us to give up, say, hard metal music, we give it up, we don’t toss out stereo out because He might want us to enjoy and be moved by another kind of music.

We must be pliable to His will, we must be willing to do His will rather than our own, but His will for each individual is for them to become holy along their own path rather than someone’s else’s path, and we must not do our will and thus too much, lest we suffer burn-out and discouragement.

The enemy will also use our desire for holiness against us, so we must stay very close to God so as not to be tricked!
 
“Be always inclined to what is hardest,” says St. John of the Cross. Notice he does not recommend always DOING what is hardest.

We need to be aware of our own limitations in holiness. To try to go beyond one’s own sufficient graces is a bad, bad idea. It will lead to at least one of the following: pride, despair, or bitterness. Having a rule of life and sticking to it, combined with spiritual direction, is the way to go.

We do indeed have to be careful with these writings… They can be useful but are easily misunderstood or misapplied to oneself.
 
The self is evil. Understand this as hyperbole.

This is why we must have self-denial.
  • We must give up sin to become holy.
  • We must give up evil to become holy.
  • We must give up the self to become holy.
All of these have the same thing in common - give up something bad so we can get something good - holiness.

Therefore, the self is evil.
 
Sometimes it might be that one cannot seem to win. Practise self denial in most everything and one could suffer spiritual pride. Cut it back and one could suffer becoming lax. This is why the very best move, in my book, is to ask a spiritual director and follow his advice re self denial and interpreting the saints’ writings at times.

Too literal an interpretation of the saints can sometimes mean one might get things a bit screwed up.

St Albert in his ancient rule for Carmel wrote “common sense is the guide of all the virtues”.
 
I thank all of you for responding to this thread and I am going to schedule an appointment with my pastor next week to discuss this. Besides i’ve had someone go “off-the-walls” at me, but thanks for the advice!
 
Scrupulous and Gnostic sounds like a bad combination. Please get yourself a spiritual director as soon as possible.
 
Scrupulous and Gnostic sounds like a bad combination. Please get yourself a spiritual director as soon as possible.
👍

Living as simply as i do, through situation, through the blessing of a family who spend their lives rescuing others in dire need…

I have never seen any of my life as self denial but as a deep and rich fulfilment. A choice made to save as much as i can to give to others.

Negativity has no place in this. I do not want more than i absolutely need. Not denial, giving

Nor do I see the life that God has given me, in this world, as evil or bad in any way. How could that be unless I chose evil, abuse?
 
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