Self-deprecating thoughts during mass, prayer

[Susan_Calvin]

I don’t know if this will help or not, and given the history of your mom, it might not be a bad idea to run it past a counselor as sometimes these things can run in the family.

Yes, you are probably right, though that scares me beyond belief. I’ve worried about “ending up like my mother” my whole life. She was a paranoid schizophrenic though, which is really nothing like me. I know the symptoms. But maybe for my own peace of mind, I should go, even if just to speak about schizophrenia in general as the thought of having it really frightens me.

kristie_m:

However, someone once told me that you are more prone to spiritual attack when you are on the right track with God. For some people, that manifests in a lot of self doubt, negative thoughts, etc., for others it is a more temporal experience (bad things happening). Given what you said about feeling unworthy, particularly while at church, it sounds a lot like this might be what you are experiencing.

I’m thinking so too, especially as it only occurs at mass or prayer. You would think I would be having self-deprecating thoughts at work also, if it was emotional… my work environment is quite stressful and I work mostly with men, which also makes things a bit more difficult as a woman… yet I have no troubles at work. So I suspect its more spiritual.

kristie_m:

Sometimes I will have the most INAPPROPRIATE thoughts while at Mass or praying before the Blessed Sacrament. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought that I should just leave because anyone who could have those thoughts while in the physical presence of Jesus, didn’t deserve to be near Him.

Me too!!! I’m glad I’m not the only one, some of the thoughts I’ve had are really unbelievable, and stuff I’d never want to repeat!

kristie_m:

But for the most part, I don’t give in to that lie, and just try to put my focus back on the Lord. Let Him deal with the devil!

Great advice, thank you!

 

[chewchoo]

Yes online is probably a good idea. I think too that shop near me is a bit of a tourist trap, which is probably why its so pricey. I imagine Father would know where things are a little cheaper, there may even be some items at the church I could buy. But thanks for the suggestions, I will do that ASAP.

do they have yard sales or flea markets in your area? you might be able to get some second hand religious items that way. and since you are in a predominately catholic area, what about estate sales? where they sell off the belongings of deceased people. not sure how they work that in the culture that you are currently in.

 

[baltobetsy]

Judith, God really has His hand on you. Reading your story, bit by bit, is very encouraging.

Betsy

 

[Liraco]

Wow indeed, Judith. Great to hear that you were able to talk to the priest.

I do agree on the crucifix and having it blessed (and your rosary if it hasn’t been already).

As for shops, online would work but do ask father to see if he knows (it’s always better to see things in person, right?) Just get that crucifix soon! (I almost said cross but I remember Fr. Serpa’s words: “Jesus died for you, not the cross”)

@Grandfather: she says she already has a small bottle of holy water. Do you have a particular recommendation for its use?

 

[peary]

I’m in a bit of a strange situation currently, at least for me it is as I’ve never experienced anything like this. I’m trying to decide if this is a spiritual problem, and emotional problem, or what…??? I will say to begin with, I’m a very well adjusted 30 year old woman. I work as a research scientist and am quite confident in most situations. I don’t have a history of depression or feeling badly about myself generally. Quite the opposite in that I can be overconfident and even arrogant at times.

I attend daily mass, go to weekly Eucharistic Adoration and catechism classes. I was quite comfortable at church until about a week ago. Around that time I began having intrusive self-deprecating thoughts. Such as… I am worthless, I don’t deserve to be here (in the church), no one likes me, when I speak to the priest I am wasting his time, others are more deserving, my prayers don’t mean anything, I should just quit going to church, and so on, ad nauseum. It doesn’t happen to me anywhere except church or when I’m trying to pray. I’m remembering as I type that its also happened prior to a week ago, the few times when I have had a pressing issue I needed to discuss with my priest. In those cases it took me a few days usually to get up the courage to talk to him, because of the thoughts.

Today at mass the thoughts were so intense that I almost started crying. I had a very strong desire to leave. I did leave right after mass, but it was my day off and I had intended to stay after mass and say the rosary by myself. I started walking home, then felt a “pull” to go back to the church and say my rosary as I originally intended. I went back into the church and started saying the rosary. I was alone except for someone who was cleaning the church. While I was starting to pray, the thoughts came back, including some new ones like, you are in the way of the person trying to clean the church, its selfish of you to interfere with the person cleaning, get out, etc. I fought the thoughts for a while but the person was cleaning around me so finally I couldn’t stand it anymore and left. On the walk home I felt very disconcerted. The scariest thing was, on my walk home I have to cross a bridge, and as I was crossing the thought came into my mind that I was a loser and I should just jump off the bridge! Of course I would never do it. I am not depressed, not even close… I love my life. But it scared the **** out of me, that the thought even came to mind. I fought it though and it went away as quickly as it had come.

So… I guess I am asking for any thoughts on the matter. Is this something I should take to a counselor? My priest? I really have no idea what’s going on and its so unlike me, I can’t stress that enough. Its very scary honestly… my mother had a severe mental illness and I worry that I am going crazy.

It sounds demonic to me - not that you are possessed or anything like that, but that the devil is hounding you. Say the St. Michael Prayer daily - in the morning and in the evening:

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen.

If this isn’t a consolation to you after awhile, then I would begin to explore therapy at some point.

 

[beckycmarie]

Judith, this is certainly consistent with a spiritual attack. The suddenness of its arrival, its level of negativity, its strength, its timing and location all make it quite suspect.

I agree with this assessment.

At the Saint Pio Center, we recommend to clients that anytime they have thoughts such as this, they say “I reject these thoughts not of God, and accept only thoughts pleasing to God.” If you’re in private, we recommend saying it out loud and even putting your hand up as if to say “STOP.” Of course in public you can just say it mentally. If the thoughts happen 50 times a day, say this 50 times a day.

Demons are able to put both thoughts in our heads and affect our emotions at the same time. It may help to remember that it’s likely these thoughts and feelings are not coming from you, but are an external attack. Because all things work for the good of those who love God (Romans 8:28), resisting these attacks and offering them up can be a source of spiritual growth and merit for you. Hang in there.

Blogger Mark Mallett wrote about how he handled this very thing at Mass - by offering it up. Here’s what he had to say:

DURING one Mass, I was attacked by the “accuser of the brethren” (Rev 12:10).

The entire Liturgy rolled by and I had barely been able to absorb a word as I wrestled against the discouragement of the enemy. I began my morning prayer, and the (convincing) lies intensified, so much so, I could do nothing but pray aloud, my mind completely under siege.

And so I prayed aloud, “I offer up the suffering of these attacks and temptations for the sake of those about to lose their eternal souls to the fires of hell. Every fiery dart thrown at me, I in turn offer that a soul may be saved!”

Immediately, I could tangibly feel the attacks stop; and there was an instant peace like the rays of the sun breaking through a rainy day. A few minutes later, the temptations returned, so I eagerly offered them up again. That’s when the temptations finally ceased.

When I came home, this email was awaiting me, sent in by a reader:

Upon waking one morning I was subjected to a pornographic thought. Knowing where it came from I did not rebel, but I offered this temptation from the evil one as reparation for my sins and the sins of the world. Instantly the temptation disappeared, for the evil one will not be used for reparation for sins.

Source: Mark Mallett, Fighting Fire with Fire

You have my prayers.
Becky

 

[Monica4316]

Susan, :hug1:

are you a catechumen?
Just speaking as someone who converted to the Church recently… a lot of things happened to me right before my conversion, some of them I’m convinced were spiritual attacks. The devil tries his best to stop us from coming to the Sacraments or doing God’s will. It can also be an emotional thing, but it sounds more spiritual from what you said. Try to not listen to these thoughts…they aren’t true… God lead you to His Church, He gave you faith in Him, He loves you, you are definitely worth a lot in His eyes and He wants you to keep going. hugs Don’t give up.

God bless

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Yes I am a catechumen. You make a really good point about that too, which I never thought of, thanks Monica!

And thanks everyone else… I do plan to write more here and answer all your replies but I am exhausted. I had a very long day, and its late again now. I’m still struggling but saying the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel has helped more than anything! Thanks all for your help and prayers. I will keep you updated.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

My dear friend

I would talk to your priest and doctor. Get a brown scapular and St Benedict cross or medal and get them blessed and yourself enroled if needs be. It sounds to me very much like diabolical suggestion in your case though. Just ignore it if it is. The best help for this is at this site saint-mike.org/spcdc/help.asp Don’t let the devil upset you if you an. Only ever talk to Jesus and ask Him to cast them away. Talking to demons will bring you undone. There much more intelligent and powerful than us. Go to Jesus. I will pray for you.

May God bless you:thumbsup:
John

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Thanks again to everyone who wrote advice to me here and prayed for me. I’ve been extremely busy at work and haven’t had much leisure time for the computer at all. I thought though everyone deserved a bit of an update. I wrote part of this in another thread of mine and decided to repeat it here.

Regarding my bad thoughts, they are finally subsiding. I have continued to attend mass daily, pray the rosary and the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel. I enlisted the help of my priest, who gave me a crucifix and has also been praying for me and offering me his advice and general help. It was tough but I seem to have gotten through it OK and feel even closer to God than I did before it all started!

After observing and discerning the situation for a couple of weeks, I have come to the conclusion that it was/is a purely spiritual problem. I did have a rough childhood, but I had a couple of years of therapy in my 20s which was highly successful. And as I said before, I generally cope well. Of course no one is perfect, least of all me!! But I believe now that the enemy was using my weakness of feeling afraid to inherit my mother’s mental illness, as a way to confuse and upset me. Obviously if I have more trouble in future I will seek counseling, but I really doubt that is what’s going on. My mother was a paranoid schizophrenic and my “symptoms” were really nothing like anything she experienced. More just self-doubts… accentuated I believe by outside forces who wish to do me harm.

Next Monday I am going on my trip to visit the Missionaries of Charity and volunteer with them. I am very excited, especially to see the one Sister who I knew as a child. I’m sure the visit will be a strength for me as well. Thanks again to everyone who replied and prayes, I really appreciate it!

 

[Monica4316]

that’s great to hear! and how wonderful that you’ll be visiting the Missionaries of Charity! God bless you

 

[grandfather]

Thanks again to everyone who wrote advice to me here and prayed for me.

After observing and discerning the situation for a couple of weeks, I have come to the conclusion that it was/is a purely spiritual problem.

But I believe now that the enemy was using my weakness of feeling afraid to inherit my mother’s mental illness, as a way to confuse and upset me. !

Many people experience this phenomenon and go through other similar experiences as well in the spiritual life. We all are affected differently. It is analagous to how we respond differently to physical challenges. Some of us struggle to walk a mile and others run marathons. Some people function quite well on hot weather and others wilt. Most people who have had the experience you have just had take longer to get through it and maybe it is not so severe as it was with you. It is also common that some lingering, but minor after effects remain.

The good news is that the trouble seems over. Prayers are answered. Thank God.

I think every saint would tell you however, that in this life there is an ongoing battle with evil. Sometimes it subsides, but then another storm comes. We are told to be vigilant, on guard and to not grow lax or lazy.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

that’s great to hear! and how wonderful that you’ll be visiting the Missionaries of Charity! God bless you

Thanks! I’m really looking forward to being with the Sisters. I’m getting very excited, can’t wait!

grandfather:

I think every saint would tell you however, that in this life there is an ongoing battle with evil. Sometimes it subsides, but then another storm comes. We are told to be vigilant, on guard and to not grow lax or lazy.

Yes, my priest has told me this also. That its not over, I may have more incidents of this in future and have to remain vigilant, as you said. He said it might actually get worse just before my conversion, and afterwards too, when I am Catholic. He said though also, that I should be grateful for it because its a way to grow in grace and faith.