self mortification

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what does the church believe about self mortification? my gut reaction is that it is sinful, yet many saints offered up grueling pennences that seem to me to be self mortification. i am a bit confused
 
stmax said:
what does the church believe about self mortification? my gut reaction is that it is sinful, yet many saints offered up grueling pennences that seem to me to be self mortification. i am a bit confused
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Not it is not sinful… It is the Christian way of life.

Just think Lent…and other penitential days.

Now some forms of mortification and penance are not for all…and some one should seek the advice of ones confessor etc regarding…(and yes some can be beyond what is good…and some things are for a particular heroic Saint and is not to be imitated.)

But mortification is good. Even bodily mortification.
 
stmax said:
what does the church believe about self mortification? my gut reaction is that it is sinful, yet many saints offered up grueling pennences that seem to me to be self mortification. i am a bit confused
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Our Lady of Fatima says to “Pray! Pray a great deal and make sacrifices for sinners, for many souls go to Hell for not having someone to pray and make sacrifices for them.”

fatima.ageofmary.com/penance/
 
stmax said:
what does the church believe about self mortification? my gut reaction is that it is sinful, yet many saints offered up grueling pennences that seem to me to be self mortification. i am a bit confused
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Don’t listen to what the body has to says about mortification, listen to the soul. 🙂

‘Let us read the lives of the saints; let us consider the penances which they performed, and blush to be so effeminate and so fearful of mortifying our flesh.’

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
 
I can never understand the problems people have with the idea of self-mortification. Yes, there are certain types/amounts that one should consult with confessors and/or spiritual directors before doing. But even in the secular world, it is common. Look at people who excercise a lot, all of these people will say that it not only makes them physically more fit, but it is good for their mind. In the church, we think nothing of days of fast and abstinence.

And just as many people who exercise a lot, as the get in better shap, they have to exercise more and more in order to feel the same benefit; so have many saints who get in better shape spiritually have to do more mortification in order to reap the benefits (for them or maybe for the poor souls). If fasting for a day no longer seems like a sacrifice, then maybe its not. Again, consult a spirtual director.

Can it be sinful if done in the wrong way and for the wrong purpose? yes. But then again, at that point it is probably not the same thing as self-mortification.
 
I was listening to a sermon today and the preacher spoke of “small mortifications” to combat impurity and other sins.

These small mortifications included:
  • after taking a warm shower, turning on the cold water for a few seconds.
    – deliberately adding a spice that would make a food less tasty. This is my example, but putting mustard on a little bit of cake for example.
    – turning away from a pleasing sight.
What are your opinions of small mortifications?
 
Please hear me…only do self-mortification under the direction of a trusted (priest) Spiritual Director. It is the only way to make sure that this method of penance will indeed advance your spiritual life. Blessings for asking the question.
 
jmjconder said:
Please hear me…only do self-mortification under the direction of a trusted (priest) Spiritual Director. It is the only way to make sure that this method of penance will indeed advance your spiritual life. Blessings for asking the question.
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I need a spiritual director for small things like that?
 
Jesus said “when you fast”. Fasting is not optional for Christians - it is one form of self mortification we should all be doing.

Paul taught us about keeping our bodies in subjection.

Take up those crosses!
 
TrueLight said:
I was listening to a sermon today and the preacher spoke of “small mortifications” to combat impurity and other sins.

These small mortifications included:
  • after taking a warm shower, turning on the cold water for a few seconds.
    – deliberately adding a spice that would make a food less tasty. This is my example, but putting mustard on a little bit of cake for example.
    – turning away from a pleasing sight.
What are your opinions of small mortifications?
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I get the idea, but not some of the examples.
Instead of deliberately altering the food, why not just abstain from it?

Turning away form a pleasing sight, if you mean something like a beautiful sunset, or an elderly couple holding hands, why would you want to?
Don’t moments such as this manifest the love of God?
TrueLight said:
I need a spiritual director for small things like that?
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I am not saying that mortification and penances are not necessary or important,
I just think that if one is going to practice anything “more” than the Church requires, it should be done with the guidance of a competent spiritual director.
There sometimes can be a very fine line between being pious and being prideful.
A good spiritual director can help you not to cross that line.
 
I don’t fully understand how voluntary severe treatment of the body
is in harmony with the inspired scriptures.
Fasting and praying yes,
but Saint Paul (don’t remember which letter it was in)
really blasted those who practiced abstaining from foods
and for practicing severe treatment of the body,
saying that these give the appearance of holiness
but in reality are ineffective against the desires of the flesh.

So I don’t know what to make of whipping oneself,
eating nothing but a few crackers and a glass of milk for months on end,
wearing cilices, etc.

I have reservations.
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
I don’t fully understand how voluntary severe treatment of the body
is in harmony with the inspired scriptures.
Fasting and praying yes,
but Saint Paul (don’t remember which letter it was in)
really blasted those who practiced abstaining from foods
and for practicing severe treatment of the body,
saying that these give the appearance of holiness
but in reality are ineffective against the desires of the flesh.

So I don’t know what to make of whipping oneself,
eating nothing but a few crackers and a glass of milk for months on end,
wearing cilices, etc.

I have reservations.
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St Paul talks about his own mortifications in one epistle - ‘I pummel (beat) my body and bring it into subjection’ - so it sounds like he indulged in self-mortification.

Yes, sometimes such things can be done with the wrong intent and in the wrong spirit, and for that reason can be unhelpful, and even harmful. That is reason to seek advice from your spiritual director before starting, it’s not reason to not do them.
 
TrueLight said:
I need a spiritual director for small things like that?
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Self mortification is not a small thing and is not the same as penance. If one desires to advance in holiness…penance is vital. Self mortification is much more than penance. That is the reason - we are all called to practice penance…self mortification is a particular path to holiness and one needs a trained guide…that is - a Spiritual Director.
 
jmjconder said:
Self mortification is not a small thing and is not the same as penance. If one desires to advance in holiness…penance is vital. Self mortification is much more than penance. That is the reason - we are all called to practice penance…self mortification is a particular path to holiness and one needs a trained guide…that is - a Spiritual Director.
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One need not go to a “spiritual director” to practice smaller ordinary mortifications…self denials.

One other ones yes one should seek advice etc.
 
Bookcat said:
One need not go to a “spiritual director” to practice smaller ordinary mortifications…self denials.

One other ones yes one should seek advice etc.
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**Again - one who desires to advance in holiness needs to understand the difference between penance and self - mortification.

If one is uncertain about this - you clearly need a Spiritual Director.

Penance and self-mortification are not the same.**
 
jmjconder said:
**Again - one who desires to advance in holiness needs to understand the difference between penance and self - mortification.

If one is uncertain about this - you clearly need a Spiritual Director.

Penance and self-mortification are not the same.**
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My point remains.

One need not go to a “spiritual director” to practice smaller ordinary mortifications…

Though one is of course a great help in the spiritual life.
 
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