Selflessness query

[JackVk]

The Church always promotes and smiles on selfless acts. I’ve been wondering, don’t we all want something out of religion for ourselves? As Christians, we all want God’s approval and to go to Heaven. We want to please Him because we know there is something in it for us? Is the desire for God a vested interest?

 

[Apollos]

The Church always promotes and smiles on selfless acts. I’ve been wondering, don’t we all want something out of religion for ourselves? As Christians, we all want God’s approval and to go to Heaven. We want to please Him because we know there is something in it for us? Is the desire for God a vested interest?

Desiring something good for ourselves looks like selfishness only if you think that self-love is bad. But if you think about it, it’s not really self-love but self-respect. And if it is truly good for us, then it is good for everyone. How’s that as an answer?

 

[Berean2]

Well, first of all, no matter how many good works we do, Jack, those don’t get us to heaven: only Jesus’ perfect life (= perfect works) and perfect atonement can do that. But, once we are in Him, our purpose is to be (as He Himself puts it) “a people zealous for good works.” It’s what the design of the Newness of Life (Romans 6:4) is all about. So, if you’re doing the good works bec. you think they will get you to heaven, it’s not only the wrong motivation, but it also won’t work (pardon the pun). If on the other hand you do them bec. you know it’s part of His design for the regenerate believer (and yes, bec. you want to please Him—out of love, not bec. you figure He’s going to give you brownie points), then your motivation is valid.

(And no, I’m not going to get into a works vs. faith debate, sorry.)

 

[spockrates]

Well, first of all, no matter how many good works we do, Jack, those don’t get us to heaven: only Jesus’ perfect life (= perfect works) and perfect atonement can do that. But, once we are in Him, our purpose is to be (as He Himself puts it) “a people zealous for good works.” It’s what the design of the Newness of Life (Romans 6:4) is all about. So, if you’re doing the good works bec. you think they will get you to heaven, it’s not only the wrong motivation, but it also won’t work (pardon the pun). If on the other hand you do them bec. you know it’s part of His design for the regenerate believer (and yes, bec. you want to please Him—out of love, not bec. you figure He’s going to give you brownie points), then your motivation is valid.

(And no, I’m not going to get into a works vs. faith debate, sorry.)

Hi, Berean.

What is a good work that is not required to get into heaven? Will you give us an example or two?

 

[JRKH]

This is a very good topic and Thank you for asking this.

Both answers above are good ones. Now for my :twocents:

Ever here the verse, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.”? (Pr 9:10)

Fear of the Lord, out of is often the beginning point of the journey into holiness. The Great mystics of The Church refer to it as “servile fear”.
Then, as we Grow Spiritually, “Love Drives our Fear”

As we seek to follow Our Lord and grow in Holiness we begin to replace that fear with Love. In it’s early stages though this Love is still something of a selfish love… seeking reward.
It is only as we mature in our Love for God that fear and self interest are fully replaced by Love. A filial Love. A spousal Love. A Love where we wish to Please the object of our Love without concern for recompense. This then is the mature Love of God.

If you wish to look further into how this works, I highly recommend the book in my signature. (I get nothing from recommending it)

Peace
James

 

[spockrates]

The Church always promotes and smiles on selfless acts. I’ve been wondering, don’t we all want something out of religion for ourselves? As Christians, we all want God’s approval and to go to Heaven. We want to please Him because we know there is something in it for us? Is the desire for God a vested interest?

Hey, Jack:

It seems that Jesus is condoning self-love as long as we practice other-love to an equal degree:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

(Matthew 22:36-40)

 

[JRKH]

Hi, Berean.

What is a good work that is not required to get into heaven? Will you give us an example or two?

Spock,
Your question is a bit off topic here…
Berean is not talking about works per-se but rather the motivation for the works.

Peace
James

 

[spockrates]

Spock,
Your question is a bit off topic here…
Berean is not talking about works per-se but rather the motivation for the works.

Peace
James

Thanks for pointing that out James, but isn’t self-love a motivation? (And good to see you, again! How have you been?)

 

[JRKH]

Thanks for pointing that out James, but isn’t self-love a motivation? (And good to see you, again! How have you been?)

Hello Spock,
I’ve been doing OK - trudging along.
To the topic at hand…

Yes self Love is a motivation but that is not what you asked Berean. You asked:
*What is a good work that is not required to get into heaven? Will you give us an example or two? *
This is not asking about motivation, it’s saking for specific examples of works. That is why I stated that it is off topic.

 

[JackVk]

Thank you all for the insight. I kinda see it like JFK’s quote: “Don’t ask what your God can do for you, but rather what you can do for your God.”

 

[spockrates]

Hello Spock,
I’ve been doing OK - trudging along.
To the topic at hand…

Yes self Love is a motivation but that is not what you asked Berean. You asked:
What is a good work that is not required to get into heaven? Will you give us an example or two?
This is not asking about motivation, it’s saking for specific examples of works. That is why I stated that it is off topic.

Yes, I see. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Leela]

Desiring something good for ourselves looks like selfishness only if you think that self-love is bad. But if you think about it, it’s not really self-love but self-respect. And if it is truly good for us, then it is good for everyone. How’s that as an answer?

Yeah, the notion that virtue and self-interest are necessarily at odds is wrong-headed.