Selling Indulgences

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Augustine3

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I’m not 100% knowledgeable about the context of offering indulgences to those who contribute money to help support the building of St Peter’s Basilica, however I’ve read Catholic sources that admit there was misconduct in terms of selling indulgences. I have a few questions.
  1. If the indulgences were indeed sold for money, was there a benefit to the recipient’s soul given the fact the indulgence was not granted as a manner of speaking in a charitable way?
  2. An indulgence was granted in a distorted manner, doesn’t this contradict our Lord’s teaching “The gates of Hades will not prevail against it”?
 
I’m not 100% knowledgeable about the context of offering indulgences to those who contribute money to help support the building of St Peter’s Basilica, however I’ve read Catholic sources that admit there was misconduct in terms of selling indulgences. I have a few questions.
  1. If the indulgences were indeed sold for money, was there a benefit to the recipient’s soul given the fact the indulgence was not granted as a manner of speaking in a charitable way?
No, I don’t think there was a benefit to the recipient’s soul because one must fulfill all the other requirements to receive an indulgence.
  1. An indulgence was granted in a distorted manner, doesn’t this contradict our Lord’s teaching “The gates of Hades will not prevail against it”?
No, because that scripture was regarding the Church, and the fact that it will never fall. Just because a few bad apples were misrepresenting what the Church taught does not mean that the Church itself was evil.
 
I’m not 100% knowledgeable about the context of offering indulgences to those who contribute money to help support the building of St Peter’s Basilica, however I’ve read Catholic sources that admit there was misconduct in terms of selling indulgences. I have a few questions.
  1. If the indulgences were indeed sold for money, was there a benefit to the recipient’s soul given the fact the indulgence was not granted as a manner of speaking in a charitable way?
  2. An indulgence was granted in a distorted manner, doesn’t this contradict our Lord’s teaching “The gates of Hades will not prevail against it”?
No because Rome never sanctioned the crass selling of indulgences (ie what Tetzel was doing) and no because Christ is talking about the Church conquering the territory of Hell not that hell will not conquer the Church. Remember that gates are defensive in nature. Furthermore even if we accept that the Gospel has been (almost) lost in certain ages it has never been fully so and has always come back. In fact one could fairly argue the Gospel has never been more maligned in the west than now ever, but you will notice that the defining character of this rot is not that people are fighting for the Gospel but that by in large no one cares.

So lets not make more of the Reformation than we should and please do not make more of the radical reformed and the entirety of “protestantism” they spawned.

God Bless
 
No, I don’t think there was a benefit to the recipient’s soul because one must fulfill all the other requirements to receive an indulgence.
What were the other requirements?

God bless,
 
No because Rome never sanctioned the crass selling of indulgences (ie what Tetzel was doing) and no because Christ is talking about the Church conquering the territory of Hell not that hell will not conquer the Church. Remember that gates are defensive in nature. Furthermore even if we accept that the Gospel has been (almost) lost in certain ages it has never been fully so and has always come back. In fact one could fairly argue the Gospel has never been more maligned in the west than now ever, but you will notice that the defining character of this rot is not that people are fighting for the Gospel but that by in large no one cares.

So lets not make more of the Reformation than we should and please do not make more of the radical reformed and the entirety of “protestantism” they spawned.

God Bless
Are yoy saying that the pope never granted the indulgance in return for money and other requirements?
 
I’m not 100% knowledgeable about the context of offering indulgences to those who contribute money to help support the building of St Peter’s Basilica, however I’ve read Catholic sources that admit there was misconduct in terms of selling indulgences. I have a few questions.
  1. If the indulgences were indeed sold for money, was there a benefit to the recipient’s soul given the fact the indulgence was not granted as a manner of speaking in a charitable way?
  2. An indulgence was granted in a distorted manner, doesn’t this contradict our Lord’s teaching “The gates of Hades will not prevail against it”?
The Council of Trent instituted severe reforms in the practice of granting indulgences, and, because of prior abuses, “in 1567 Pope Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions” (Catholic Encyclopedia). This act proved the Church’s seriousness about removing abuses from indulgences.
Myth 7: A person used to be able to buy indulgences.
One never could “buy” indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved alms—indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: “*t is easy to see how abuses crept in. Among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place. . . . It is well to observe that in these purposes there is nothing essentially evil. To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded.”
Being able to explain these seven myths will be a large step in helping others to understand indulgences. But, there are still questions to be asked:
 
Are yoy saying that the pope never granted the indulgance in return for money and other requirements?
I am saying that a person could give all the money they wanted and if they did have a contrite heart they would not receive an indulgence or benefit of it. Rome never allowed the crass selling of indulgences even folks like Sproul will admit that. The outrage that Luther had with Tetzel was that he was doing something Luther knew to be outside of Ecclesiastical Law. Furthermore Luther’s complaint against Rome was that such excesses were proof of corruption not that Rome in and of herself was corrupt.

God Bless
 
Poor Tetzel
From the Catholic Encyclopedia
The emphasis is mine
History presents few characters that have suffered more senseless misrepresentation, even bald caricature, than Tetzel. “Even while he lived stories which contained an element of legend gathered around his name, until at last, in the minds of the uncritical Protestant historians, he became the typical indulgence-monger, upon whom any well-worn anecdote might be fathered” (Beard, “Martin Luther”, London, 1889, 210). For a critical scholarly study which shows him in a proper perspective, he had to wait the researches of our own time, mainly at the hands of Dr. Nicholas Paulus, who is closely followed in this article**. In the first place, his teaching regarding the indulgences for the living was correct. The charge that the forgiveness of sins was sold for money regardless of contrition or that absolution for sins to be committed in the future could be purchased is baseless. An indulgence, he writes, can be applied only “to the pains of sin which are confessed and for which there is contrition”. “No one”, he furthermore adds, “secures an indulgence unless he have true contrition”. The confessional letters (confessionalia) could of course be obtained for a mere pecuniary consideration without demanding contrition. But such document did not secure an indulgence. It was simply a permit to select a proper confessor, who only after a contrite confession would absolve from sin and reserved cases, and who possessed at the same time facilities to impart the plenary indulgence (Paulus, “Johann Tetzel”, 103). **
 
**I am saying that a person could give all the money they wanted and if they did have a contrite heart they would not receive an indulgence or benefit of it. **Rome never allowed the crass selling of indulgences even folks like Sproul will admit that. The outrage that Luther had with Tetzel was that he was doing something Luther knew to be outside of Ecclesiastical Law. Furthermore Luther’s complaint against Rome was that such excesses were proof of corruption not that Rome in and of herself was corrupt.

God Bless
I’m assuming you meant “and if they did NOT have a contrite heart…” :confused:
 
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