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Seminarian_Matt
Guest
In the Old Rite a person became a cleric with the tonsure. So, could seminarians in the minor orders wear a biretta?
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ASimpleSinner
Guest
Matt,
In a few years, as an ordination gift, I will buy you a biretta for every single day of the week. Any and every color you want. tufts or no tufts. four points or three. Graduate with honors, I will throw in a cassock any style you want - Roman, Anglican Style, Semi-Jesuit, whichever.
In the mean time, vear away from these external concearns. The one collegiate seminarian I knew who owned and wore a biretta - and did so at his home parish on breaks - was treated like a total and utter bafoon. The other seminarians laughed at him, the clergy of the diocese winced.
And this is coming from an ex-seminarian who had three styles of cassock - two of them hand-sewn.
The day will come when you can demonstrate your exquisite taste in clerical appointment. But if you want to be taken seriously in seminary - and make it all the way through - leave that day for later.
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Caesar
Guest
Yes. The Rite of Tonsure and Investiture allows a seminarian the right to wear clerical garb, including the cassock and biretta. Although I’m not sure about other things like the ferraiuolo or the cappello romano. Liturgical Vestments are, of course, a completely differant matter.
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Chris_murphy
Guest
Does is a Sedevacantist Seminary (Holy Trinity), and in this picture all of the seminarians are wearing birettas and cassocks
sgg.org/general-info/photo-gallery/
sgg.org/general-info/photo-gallery/
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Andreas_Hofer
Guest
Although the minor orders have (effectively) been abolished, and thus there are no clerics short of diaconal ordination, custom still maintains that it is appropriate for seminarians to wear the cassock, just as altar servers still wear it despite not actually being clerics. Since the biretta used to go along with this, I would think custom would equally protect the biretta for seminarians, yet since it now lives outside the bounds of any law the norms for its use would depend on local custom and living memory.
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Chris_murphy
Guest
Sorry about the picture, but in the link, go to the box in the toolbar for the photo, then go to page 2 of the photos, look under the 4th photo in the album labeled “Seminary Construction” and then picture 4
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Resurrexit
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Seminarians at the Institute of Christ the King wear the biretta after they have received the cassock and tonsure, which is at the end of the 1st year at Gricigliano.
This is because the tonsure makes you a cleric, and a biretta is clerical dress, not specifically sacerdotal.
You would wear this during Mass, the Divine Office in choir (everyday) and other liturgical functions.
The rest of the time, just the cassock and fascia (black belt that hangs down on one side) are worn. The simar (shoulder cape) is worn on more formal occasions and when it’s cold. The capello Roman (round hat) is sometimes worn during the summer for non-liturgical occasions.
This is what the Institute do, I expect the Fraternity of St. Peter and other traditionalist societies are very similar. But as for ‘Novus Ordo seminaries’, I’ve no idea.
This is because the tonsure makes you a cleric, and a biretta is clerical dress, not specifically sacerdotal.
You would wear this during Mass, the Divine Office in choir (everyday) and other liturgical functions.
The rest of the time, just the cassock and fascia (black belt that hangs down on one side) are worn. The simar (shoulder cape) is worn on more formal occasions and when it’s cold. The capello Roman (round hat) is sometimes worn during the summer for non-liturgical occasions.
This is what the Institute do, I expect the Fraternity of St. Peter and other traditionalist societies are very similar. But as for ‘Novus Ordo seminaries’, I’ve no idea.
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Chatter163
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Rarely a cassock and NEVER a biretta!But as for ‘Novus Ordo seminaries’, I’ve no idea.
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jstreets
Guest
At Sacred Hear Major Seminary, the seminarians where a cassock and surplice for all major liturgical celebrations (ie. the ones that take place in the main chapel.) But if it is in one of the minor chapels, where the public is not allowed seminarians where albs. Alot of the seminarians here also own their own cassocks, and this year we will have a latin novus ordo mass every saturday. Which is quite revolutionary in diocesan seminaries these days. Im waiting for the response of some of the more “progressive” minded priests in the archdiocese.Rarely a cassock and NEVER a biretta!
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Chatter163
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And I think that many of the posters here envision traditional seminarians, who wear their cassocks at all times, not only during liturgical celebrations.
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maurin
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Andreas_Hofer
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Clerical garb, though, be it secular or religious, is meant to be formative. The Marines don’t send recruits through boot camp wearing whatever street clothes only the give them a uniform once they’ve become soldiers - the uniform is part and parcel of the training Same thing goes for the cassock or habit - the symbolisms invested in these distinctive garbs are not merely directed outward as identifiers, they are meant also to recall their wearer to self-sacrifice, obedience, etc. My daughter’s godfather just entered the Dominican novitiate and was invested with the habit within weeks, that without having taken any sort of vow whatsoever to the order. Is it possible to be formed without this tool? Sure. Is the garb “merely” an external, though? Not at all.
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fraisinette
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So a female canon lawyer could wear a biretta? Neat!
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maurin
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Andreas,
Congratulations to your daughter’s godfather! This is great news.
By the way, so you know, I am a big fan of the Habit.
Back to the business at hand: I know that you are not suggesting that the external is more important than the internal forum, correct? The “white-washed tombs” come to mind.
If the internal forum is properly formed, the externals come naturally, and not forcedly.
So really, I guess that all I’m saying is that the externals ought to be a window into the internal forum. A proper balance, that’s all.
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Andreas_Hofer
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I think we’re very close. I just wanted to point out that the way your sentence ran “formation first, then externals” didn’t quite give full credit to the role externals play in formation. It doesn’t have to be a one way street from internal to external; externals can in turn shape our internal dispositions (part of the reason we shoot for the best in liturgy and not just “it’s good enough if you mean well”).
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maurin
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So true, ANdreas, thank you for providing the opportunity for me to clarify.
May I conclude that we are in agreement that to emphasize the external characteristics of our Traditions over the internal, or to emphasize the internal charateristics of our Traditions over the external is not emphasizing fully or properly our Holy Traditions?
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ASimpleSinner
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Marines also don’t spend much of their boot camp in their dress blues either. And I have yet to meet one who spent a minute of his (or her) four months in mess dress.
Your points are excellent, but they should be made to seminary and novitiate formation directors…
My response on the merits of “worrying about these externals” was to a teenage collegiate seminarian, not a director of formation who is making that decision.
Matt needs to worry about the books for now. He should wear what he is told to wear. A biretta on an American college seminarian is going to fly like an Ohio State freshman sauntering around in his smoking jacket and slippers with a pipe, or dressing like an Oxford Don to go to the cafeteria “for tea”.
What they provide for him to wear in seminary is what he should wear. IF they wear birettas there (and what are the odds these college seminarians are???) then that is what they wear. IF not, I say, don’t worry about that for now.
Show up wearing your hand-sewn 33-buttoned, custom made cassock with french cuffs, biretta and exquisite black water-mark silk ferraiuolo…
In other words, looking like a teenaged version of this noble fella…
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Your classmates are going to snicker and call you [edited by Moderator].
Your instructors will say the same (just not to your face) and your formation director will be asking a meeting with you ASAP.
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Andreas_Hofer
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As Maurin and I have come to terms on our “Joint Statement on the Proper Balance of Emphases on all Worthy Elements of Catholic Piety”, I’ll just reiterate that all I was trying to do was ensure that the full value of externals was recognized, not that one should insist on optionals come hell or high water. I was just trying to provide balance.
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ASimpleSinner
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That is fair enough and I am agreed. I actually composed that last post well before you had posted the posts prior to it… But I had not sent it for a few hours as I got busy with housework…
Didn’t mean to make it seem like I was disagreeing.
During my time in seminary, I rather liked wearing the cassock… So you are pretty spot on with my thinking. And then I think we are both agreed that it has its place, no more no less otherwise.
I beg your prayers.
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Sacerdotalis
Guest
Matt,
You have a very poor understanding of clerical apparel. It isn’t supposed to be “cool” and purchasing something merely for that reason is concerning. As a matter of fact, I would wonder if you’re going to be in seminary “because it’s cool”. I would take a good look and make sure you’re not doing this because you like to play dress-up.
You have a very poor understanding of clerical apparel. It isn’t supposed to be “cool” and purchasing something merely for that reason is concerning. As a matter of fact, I would wonder if you’re going to be in seminary “because it’s cool”. I would take a good look and make sure you’re not doing this because you like to play dress-up.
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