Seminarians and the Ferraiolo

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A somewhat obscure question . . . .

Are seminarians and others studying for the priesthood permitted to wear the ferraiolo?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferraiuolo

My reading is that this is a formal article of clothing worn by “clergy” - but Wikipedia’s definition of clergy often seems to include seminarians, especially in the articles on clerical garb.

This question relates to a minor point of detail in a story I am writing - if it makes a difference, our hypothetical ferraiuolo would be worn by a Jessuit Novice at a formal (although non-Church) event.

Many thanks in advance for any answers!
 
Yes, a seminarian is allowed to wear them, just as with the Biretta. Once one receives the cassock, one is a clerical i believe. If one would where the hat or not depends on local customs, if he permitted, the order etc.

It could be worn in the situation you are describing. If the story is set in this time of age, many or most Jesuits are fairly modernistic, and many of them don’t wear clerical garments at all, but then you have the really good Jesuits which is very orthodox and solid, which could probably wear such a hat.
 
The story is set in several periods - this particular episode is set in the 1950s, and the character in question would certainly count as an orthodox Jesuit who would dress in as distinctive a manner to distance himself from non-clergy as he was permitted.

Many thanks indeed!
 
Morningkill said:
A somewhat obscure question . . . .

Are seminarians and others studying for the priesthood permitted to wear the ferraiolo?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferraiuolo

My reading is that this is a formal article of clothing worn by “clergy” - but Wikipedia’s definition of clergy often seems to include seminarians, especially in the articles on clerical garb.

This question relates to a minor point of detail in a story I am writing - if it makes a difference, our hypothetical ferraiuolo would be worn by a Jessuit Novice at a formal (although non-Church) event.

Many thanks in advance for any answers!
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Funny you should ask. My wife and I just bought a Ferraiolo for her brother for Christmas.

A Ferraiolo is the appropriate formal wear for a priest, worn with a cassock. It is basically worn any time a man would wear a tuxedo.

Since seminarians are allowed to wear clerics/cassocks, I imagine they would be allowed to wear the ferraiolo.

God Bless
 
One does not technically become clergy until they are ordained to the Diaconate. The minor orders of acolyte and lector are no longer minor orders, this was changed with Vatican II.

A seminarian would have to follow the guidelines laid out by his bishop regarding what he may wear.
 
Thank you, Brother - the story in question takes place before Vatican II and the character in question is a Jesuit Novice (and is, therefore, perhaps not technically “a Seminarian”). Would that be a choice for the local Novice Master or the Father Provincial in that case?
 
Morningkill said:
Thank you, Brother - the story in question takes place before Vatican II and the character in question is a Jesuit Novice (and is, therefore, perhaps not technically “a Seminarian”). Would that be a choice for the local Novice Master or the Father Provincial in that case?
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You would need to look into what the Jesuit habit of the time would have been.

The clerical dress of the secular priesthood was not alway used by religious priests.

If the Jesuits had a habit at the time they would wear that and if the ferraiolo was not part of the habit then they would not wear it.

This is governed by an orders rule and constitutions. Another thing to keep in mind is that a novice may not be clothed in the full habit or in the habit at all, you would need to research how the Jesuits handled this.

You are correct, a Novice is not a seminarian as a religious does not attend the seminary (theologate in many cases) until they complete their Novitiate.
 
One of the things which is most annoying (from a writer’s perspective) is that the Jesuits have no official habit - they wear whatever seems appropriate. My research leads me to understand that they originally wore the common garb of the time (with a tuftless biretta) and did not have a formal habit. What is called the “Jesuit Cassock” is not official, but is simply what was worn during St. Ignatius’ time. Commonly, my research suggests, Jesuit wear secular priestly garb. Today, many of them wear purely secular garb with just a collar (and sometimes not even that).

As far as I can tell, a Jesuit Novice in the 1950s would be okay wearing a cassock and collar and other stuff. If anyone wants to correct me, feel free!
 
Morningkill said:
One of the things which is most annoying (from a writer’s perspective) is that the Jesuits have no official habit - they wear whatever seems appropriate. My research leads me to understand that they originally wore the common garb of the time (with a tuftless biretta) and did not have a formal habit. What is called the “Jesuit Cassock” is not official, but is simply what was worn during St. Ignatius’ time. Commonly, my research suggests, Jesuit wear secular priestly garb. Today, many of them wear purely secular garb with just a collar (and sometimes not even that).

As far as I can tell, a Jesuit Novice in the 1950s would be okay wearing a cassock and collar and other stuff. If anyone wants to correct me, feel free!
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If this is true, then it would be the decision of the Novice master as to what the novices would wear. This decision would be influenced by the General of the order.
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit#Habit_and_dress

From this article;

"Jesuits do not have an official habit. St. Ignatius’s intent was their adoption of diocesan clergy dress in whatever country or region they found themselves. In time, a “Jesuit-style cassock” became standard issue: it wrapped around the body and was tied with a cincture, rather than the customary buttoned front, a tuftless biretta (only diocesan clergy wore tufts), and a simple cape (ferraiuolo) completed the full, formal Jesuit garb, but this too was part of diocesan priestly dress. As such, though their garb appeared distinctive, and became identifiable over time, it was the common priestly dress of Ignatius’s day. Missionaries of all religious orders, at their commissioning ceremony, received a large crucifix worn on a cord around the neck that is often tucked, for convenience, to the cassock’s cincture: historical depictions of Jesuit saints show the buttonless cassock, cape, biretta, and cervical crucifix.

During the Missionary periods of the Continental Americas, the various Amerindian tribes referred to the Jesuits as the “Blackrobes” because of the black cassocks they wore.

Today, most Jesuits wear the simple Roman collar tab shirts in non-liturgical, ministerial settings. Some, since the 1960s, have opted for secular garb."

Wikipedia is generally pretty good - I have no idea, however, if this is totally accurate. I have been unable, however, to find anything which disagrees with it.
 
Morningkill said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit#Habit_and_dress

From this article;

"Jesuits do not have an official habit. St. Ignatius’s intent was their adoption of diocesan clergy dress in whatever country or region they found themselves. In time, a “Jesuit-style cassock” became standard issue: it wrapped around the body and was tied with a cincture, rather than the customary buttoned front, a tuftless biretta (only diocesan clergy wore tufts), and a simple cape (ferraiuolo) completed the full, formal Jesuit garb, but this too was part of diocesan priestly dress. As such, though their garb appeared distinctive, and became identifiable over time, it was the common priestly dress of Ignatius’s day. Missionaries of all religious orders, at their commissioning ceremony, received a large crucifix worn on a cord around the neck that is often tucked, for convenience, to the cassock’s cincture: historical depictions of Jesuit saints show the buttonless cassock, cape, biretta, and cervical crucifix.

During the Missionary periods of the Continental Americas, the various Amerindian tribes referred to the Jesuits as the “Blackrobes” because of the black cassocks they wore.

Today, most Jesuits wear the simple Roman collar tab shirts in non-liturgical, ministerial settings. Some, since the 1960s, have opted for secular garb."

Wikipedia is generally pretty good - I have no idea, however, if this is totally accurate. I have been unable, however, to find anything which disagrees with it.
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I stay away from Wikipedia. It was not to be use as a source for any papers for the University I attended. Any one can put stuff on it. I just do not trust it.

Why don’t you check out the Jesuit’s websites and maybe even contact some of them?

This is the first that I have heard that Jesuits did not have a habit.
 
I just do not trust it.
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Independent research found it as accurate as Britannica 🙂 But I do see the point - I would not rely on it for anything important.
 
Morningkill said:
Independent research found it as accurate as Britannica 🙂 But I do see the point - I would not rely on it for anything important.
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“Independent research” is another term I do not trust.

Let us not forget that at least one “editor” on it accepted money from Micro$oft to edit in a way that Micro$oft wanted.
 
Well, a Jesuit Father has told me since I made my last post that the Wiki article is “surprisingly accurate” - which I suppose means that they are doing something right!
 
Morningkill said:
The story is set in several periods - this particular episode is set in the 1950s, and the character in question would certainly count as an orthodox Jesuit who would dress in as distinctive a manner to distance himself from non-clergy as he was permitted.

Many thanks indeed!
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Morning – you are having a LOT of und with this, aren’t you? 😃 😃 😃
 
I thought that Jesuits cannot wear clericals until after the novitiate, since they are not under any vows until then.
 
Young_Thinker said:
I thought that Jesuits cannot wear clericals until after the novitiate, since they are not under any vows until then.
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I don’t know about the Jesuits but normally a candidate to religious order becomes a member of that order at the beginning of their novitiate and the first ceremony is the clothing of the novice.

We do it within Evening Prayer.
 
ByzCath said:
I don’t know about the Jesuits but normally a candidate to religious order becomes a member of that order at the beginning of their novitiate and the first ceremony is the clothing of the novice.

We do it within Evening Prayer.
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I agree with you, Brother. However, the Jesuit novitiate lasts for 2 years. There is not an in-house postulancy preceding it.
 
Young_Thinker said:
I agree with you, Brother. However, the Jesuit novitiate lasts for 2 years. There is not an in-house postulancy preceding it.
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There is no canonical requirement for any form of postulancy.

There are many orders that have a 2 year novitiate but the canonical novitiate is a year and a day. Hence many of groups with a 2 year novitiate have studies outside of the novitiate house which is allowed as only the year and a day requirement does not allow for such,

I do know of some groups with a 2 year novitiate and they also cloth their novices on the first day of the novitiate.

Again, I do not know what the Jesuits do.
 
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