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kozlosap
Guest
Do you expect as a priest not to minister to heretics and gays? How sad for you that this world is not full of straight non-heretical Catholics.
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Biedrik
Guest
It is unreasonable to judge a seminary. You are not there, and do not know how it will be. Also, sometimes we’ve got to suffer through these sorts o f things. Priesthood is worth everything, even a bad seminary. And once again, a priest MUST be obedient to his superiors. He cannot be arrogant and disobedient.
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notredame_999
Guest
I agree with you. The issue is when a priest’s superiors teach him things which are against the traditional faith. Then it becomes his duty to dis-obey the superiors since they are in error.
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Marie5890
Guest
You mean exceeds that of the Pharisees. Pharisees were known to be self-righteous and arrogant. They did call for Our Lord’s crucifixion.
What the Pharisees lacked was humility enough to know Our Lord. They were blind to His Truth.
Christ hung out with the sinners. He scolded the Pharisees.
Sinners know their need of God’s Mercy. Pharisees are poisoned by their own egos thinking they are 'better" than their fellow man.
They deceive themselves anytime they think they are “better than”
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Joannm
Guest
Disobeying your superiors is a sure way to find yourself kicked out of a seminary. It seems like with an attitude like that you will find it very hard to get accepted by your bishop into the seminary. And what is the “traditional faith?” Does that mean that anything after Vatican II is wrong? Have you read documents that have been issued in recent years in the area of moral and systematic theology? Have you taken theology courses and are able to coherently and adequately discuss theological issues without being condescending or spouting off “heretic” when someone says something you disagree with? Can you offer valid arguments with documents to prove your point? Lively discussion of theological issues is encouraged in seminaries, but negativity is not.
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Biedrik
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This is a very bad attitude to have. Disobedient priests have been a huge part of the problems that we’ve had in the Church in recent decades. We do not need more of them. Who are you to judge a seminary, and to tell your bishop that you refuse to obey his orders? Obey your bishop. It’s important.
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ExDeoVita
Guest
There is a difference between ministering to them and being taught by them. Priests should be able to bring Jesus Christ to all people. However, if their understanding of Jesus and his Church was maimed due to heretical teaching in their seminary years, they wouldn’t be bringing the full Truth to those they minister to after ordination. People can’t give what they don’t have. God bless those seminarians who are well formed before they enter a progressive seminary, I presume their experience will make them all the stronger and prepared to combat false teachings down the line.Do you expect as a priest not to minister to heretics and gays? How sad for you that this world is not full of straight non-heretical Catholics.
Yet for those who are entering the seminary, and have little to no philosophy, theology, or catchetics behind them - I believe it’s a licit desire stay away from a seminary where some of the professors are agenda driven and could in fact adulterate the mind of one who is relatively new to the subject matter and wouldn’t know any better.
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ExDeoVita
Guest
I agree, Priests should obey their superiors. But, if in obeying a superior one simultaneously goes against dogmatic teaching, then they would be disobeying Jesus Christ Himself. Which is worse?
In an ideal world the requests of one’s superior would always be in conformance with Jesus Christ, sadly that is not the situation in some cases.
Case in point, if my becoming a priest rested on going against my understanding of the intrinsic value of human life - if I were required to accept the idea that abortion were acceptable in some cases, or that homosexual ‘marriage’ were acceptable, ect. than I would just assume that God wasn’t calling me to be a priest. God never asks is to contradict Him. If we place obiediende to fellow humans on a higher plane than our obiedienc to God and his teachings than we are living a lie.
That distinction must be made.
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ExDeoVita
Guest
That’s true - these discussions should be had in seminaries.
I don’t understand the Vatican II statement. Were you refeering to dogmatic teachings?
If one clearly understood the teachings leading up to and including Vatican II, I can’t think of how they would find disagreement with recent ‘theological issues’.
Truth does not continually change…anyone well formed with Vatican II will find congruence with recent ‘theological issues’. In fact, those recent ‘theological issues’ would help reinforce and build-up one’s understanding of Church Teaching.
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Joannm
Guest
There are some who do believe that Vatican II was a bad council. Those people should not be entering into the seminary as the documents of Vatican II are part of the Ordinary magisterium of the Church.
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AdvanceAlways
Guest
You go where your Bishop sends you. Period. It’s called obedience for a reason.
NotreDame999, I know you have a lot of zeal for tradition but seriously, just relax for once. Stop viewing everything in the Church as infested by “gays” and “liberals.” A strong seminarian can make it wherever he is sent. So no, contrary to what you say, it would not look good for a potential seminarian to demand his bishop send him else where.
This “holier than thou” and “more Catholic than the Pope” attitude from some is not the way to go. Follow your Bishop.
NotreDame999, I know you have a lot of zeal for tradition but seriously, just relax for once. Stop viewing everything in the Church as infested by “gays” and “liberals.” A strong seminarian can make it wherever he is sent. So no, contrary to what you say, it would not look good for a potential seminarian to demand his bishop send him else where.
This “holier than thou” and “more Catholic than the Pope” attitude from some is not the way to go. Follow your Bishop.
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notredame_999
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Thats ridiculous. I’m sure I’m not the only one discerning who has problems with Vatican II. I bet if you ask the members of the FSSP, The Legionaires, Institute of Christ the King, you will find many priests who don’t like Vatican II.
Now there is a difference with disliking Vatican II like I and many other traditional catholics do, while still accepting Vatican II, compared to outright rejecting Vatican II like the SSPX does.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Vatican II is a valid council of the Church. I highly doubt that the Catholic groups that are in good standing with the Vatican have any issue with it.
And I am not sure that using the Legin of Christ as an example is a good thing with all the problems they are having with the Church at the moment.
Have you read the documents? Did you understand them?
Your games are getting tiring you know.
Here’s something I just read from Archbishop Fulton Sheen in his book Way to Happiness.
The humble man concentrates on his own errors, and not upon those of others; he sees nothing in his neighbor but what is good and virtuous. He does not carry his own faults on his back, but in front of him. The neighbor’s defects he carries in a sack on his back, so he will not see them. The proud man, on the contrary, complains against everybody and believes that he has been wronged or else not treated as he deserves. When the humble man is treated badly he does not complain for he knows that he is treated better than he deserves.(9)
I thnk this is something that should be meditated upon for a time.
By the way, get a spiritual director yet?
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notredame_999
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I’m glad you got in on this Brother lol I knew you would. With all due respect as a consecrated religious, you are not the magisterium.
You say my games are getting tiring but I have every right to post on this internet website as you do.
As far as the quote you provided, I appreciate it and will meditate on it.
At the same time, humility doesn’t mean we surrender our traditions. Unfortunately we almost did that with the suppression of the latin mass in most dioceses. Humility also doesn’t mean that we become blind to our enemies- both external and within the church itself going back to Judas. Remember, we are engaged in spiritual warfare against ourselves and satan.
For whatever reason, and I do not know why, a new type of mass was created at Vatican II. I do not like it, to me it comes dangerously close to a protestant service. With that said, I accept its validity if done properly.
Have you ever read the Rhine Flows Into the Tiber?
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Joannm
Guest
Have you ever been to a Protestant Service? I have been to quite a number of them. Many of them are simply word services with lots of preaching and singing. Didn’t seem like a Mass to me. Then there are other mainstream denominations that do look like our Mass…you know why? Because they copied ours or adapted ours. They also took our Lectionary.
BTW you didn’t answer ByzCath’s question…have you read and studied the documents of Vatican II?
BTW you didn’t answer ByzCath’s question…have you read and studied the documents of Vatican II?
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PatrickSebast
Guest
If you want to go to a seminary that doesn’t have anyone who is attracted to men at it I think you might just be out of luck. Most surveys of seminary students seem to indicate it is relatively common thing, more so than in the normal population anyway.
The men who teach at seminaries generally aren’t chosen based on their opinions of things like government tax structures and spending so there is a good chance you will have to deal with some ideas that are of a politically liberal nature. It is also worth noting that many seminaries partner with universities and have their students take some classes there as well, and those professors might not even be Catholic at times.
The men who teach at seminaries generally aren’t chosen based on their opinions of things like government tax structures and spending so there is a good chance you will have to deal with some ideas that are of a politically liberal nature. It is also worth noting that many seminaries partner with universities and have their students take some classes there as well, and those professors might not even be Catholic at times.
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AdvanceAlways
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ND999, Vatican II is part of our Catholic tradition, whether you like it or not. And yes, you are right, within the FSSP you’ll fine anti-Vatican II-ers but they must hold those beliefs in private. Other than that… sorry but you’re kind of out of luck. We as Catholics have the obligation to stand up for the proper interpretations of Vatican II. I used to rail against the council the way you used to, heck I used to be an SSPX-er until I sat down and actually read the Vatican II documents. Have you even fully read through the major ones?
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SisterSnowflake
Guest
Perhaps Notre Dame is railing against the incorrect interpretations and implementations of Vatican II that have occurred in some places?
I was amazed when I read the documents myself; I was practically a card carrying “liberal”, as I had ALWAYS been told that “Vatican II said this”, “Vatican II did that”…when I actually read the documents (if you speak only English, read the old translation by Walter Abbott, SJ - it is the best! Don’t read the revised “inclusive language version” by a Domican whose name I have forgotten…the Abbott text is best). Much of what I had been taught was totally inaccurate; much that I had been taught was what some refer to as the so-called “spirit of Vatican II” mindset (i.e. it was NEVER proclaimed by the Council Fathers and is more in the realm of pop-psychology and fad).
I think that you will find that MOST people who go around spouting “Vatican II said, did, taught” have never actually read the documents themselves. My students have been amazed that much of what they have been taught that V-II proclaimed can’t be found anywhere in the documents OR even in the post-conciliar documents. Even some Sisters have thanked me for showing them that so much that they had been taught and told was a result of Vatican II was NEVER called for by the Council.
In charity, shall we give Notre Dame the benefit of the doubt and figure that he is a searching young person who wants to serve Christ & His Church & is frustrated by some things that he sees have happened/are happening that were never intended? Haven’t we all been frustrated by such things?
Do read the documents, dear (if you have not already done so) and channel your fervor and passion into becoming all that you can for Christ!
God bless!
I was amazed when I read the documents myself; I was practically a card carrying “liberal”, as I had ALWAYS been told that “Vatican II said this”, “Vatican II did that”…when I actually read the documents (if you speak only English, read the old translation by Walter Abbott, SJ - it is the best! Don’t read the revised “inclusive language version” by a Domican whose name I have forgotten…the Abbott text is best). Much of what I had been taught was totally inaccurate; much that I had been taught was what some refer to as the so-called “spirit of Vatican II” mindset (i.e. it was NEVER proclaimed by the Council Fathers and is more in the realm of pop-psychology and fad).
I think that you will find that MOST people who go around spouting “Vatican II said, did, taught” have never actually read the documents themselves. My students have been amazed that much of what they have been taught that V-II proclaimed can’t be found anywhere in the documents OR even in the post-conciliar documents. Even some Sisters have thanked me for showing them that so much that they had been taught and told was a result of Vatican II was NEVER called for by the Council.
In charity, shall we give Notre Dame the benefit of the doubt and figure that he is a searching young person who wants to serve Christ & His Church & is frustrated by some things that he sees have happened/are happening that were never intended? Haven’t we all been frustrated by such things?
Do read the documents, dear (if you have not already done so) and channel your fervor and passion into becoming all that you can for Christ!
God bless!
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SisterSnowflake
Guest
P.S.
You’ll be happy to know that I am no longer “practically a card carrying liberal”… now I’m just Catholic!
You’ll be happy to know that I am no longer “practically a card carrying liberal”… now I’m just Catholic!
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notredame_999
Guest
No I havent read the documents. I plan on doing so. The main issue for me is the novus ordo mass and ecumenism.
The traditional latin mass in my opinion gives a greater emphasis of us being in spiritual warfare- like the priest facing the altar.
I also think that the Vatican II impression of ecumenism says that the holy spirit is found in other Christian dominations. The danger with that is that people will be less likely to convert if the Vatican tells them they are ok where they are. This is evident in the numbers of conversion pre vatican ii compared to post vatican ii. Patrick Buchanan has written about this.
I hope that one day there is a Vatican III that scraps the novus ordo mass altogether. I am sure there are some traditional priests within the church (FSSP, ICK, etc.) who feel the same way.
The traditional latin mass in my opinion gives a greater emphasis of us being in spiritual warfare- like the priest facing the altar.
I also think that the Vatican II impression of ecumenism says that the holy spirit is found in other Christian dominations. The danger with that is that people will be less likely to convert if the Vatican tells them they are ok where they are. This is evident in the numbers of conversion pre vatican ii compared to post vatican ii. Patrick Buchanan has written about this.
I hope that one day there is a Vatican III that scraps the novus ordo mass altogether. I am sure there are some traditional priests within the church (FSSP, ICK, etc.) who feel the same way.
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