Seminary or university where whole Summa is read?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Geremia
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry for the delay in responding. Regarding the Angelicum, the teaching there of course still has a strong basis in St. Thomas. However, two qualifications are in order.

(1) The Angelicum, like other Roman and European schools, tends follow the lecture system of teaching. Thus, while the teacher may base his teaching on St. Thomas, that does not necessarily require or involve students reading the actual text of St. Thomas.

(2) Looking at the bibliographies provided for all the various courses in the Baccalaureate of the Angelicum, there seems to be a strong presence of the Prima Secundae and the Secunda Secundae in the bibliographies, but not much of the Prima Pars (God, Trinity, Creation) or the Tertia Pars (Christology, Life of Christ, Sacraments). This corresponds to other things I’ve heard as well, that the moral theology there maintains a stronger relation to the Summa than the dogmatic theology does.
 
Sorry for the delay in responding. Regarding the Angelicum, the teaching there of course still has a strong basis in St. Thomas. However, two qualifications are in order.

(1) The Angelicum, like other Roman and European schools, tends follow the lecture system of teaching. Thus, while the teacher may base his teaching on St. Thomas, that does not necessarily require or involve students reading the actual text of St. Thomas.

(2) Looking at the bibliographies provided for all the various courses in the Baccalaureate of the Angelicum, there seems to be a strong presence of the Prima Secundae and the Secunda Secundae in the bibliographies, but not much of the Prima Pars (God, Trinity, Creation) or the Tertia Pars (Christology, Life of Christ, Sacraments). This corresponds to other things I’ve heard as well, that the moral theology there maintains a stronger relation to the Summa than the dogmatic theology does.
Thank you for the response.

What about philosophy? I’ve heard it has had a strong Gilsonian influence, but perhaps things are different now? Thanks
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this comparable to asking if there is a university where the whole Encyclopedia is read? Or the whole Bible?
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this comparable to asking if there is a university where the whole Encyclopedia is read? Or the whole Bible?
I would not put the Summa on the same level as the inspired Word of God.

At least in my seminary program we do go through the whole Bible.
 
I would not put the Summa on the same level as the inspired Word of God.
Certainly; the Bible is the Summa’s primary source of Revelation.
At least in my seminary program we do go through the whole Bible.
In addition to the Bible, the Summa was reverenced on the altar
at the Council of Trent because the Council Fathers thought it clarified many questions relating to the faith. When St. Thomas was canonized, the devil’s advocate at the canonization process objected that there were no miracles, to which one of the cardinals answered, “Tot miraculis, quot articulis”-there are as many miracles in the life of St. Thomas as articles in the Summa. (source)
Thus, pedagogically, through its magnificent use of reason as an instrument to understand Revelation, many popes have recommended the Summa, especially for seminarians.
 
Geremia;7976254In addition to the Bible said:
was reverenced on the altar

Not on a Carmelite altar.

It is my understanding that Aquinas was not a fan of the Carmelites and actually worked towards our demise, though that did not happen (Thank God!).
 
In addition to the Bible, the Summa was reverenced on the altar…
Oh? Where was this?
Thus, pedagogically, through its magnificent use of reason as an instrument to understand Revelation, many popes have recommended the Summa, especially for seminarians.
Yes, but that doesn’t equate reading the whole thing. Again, it’s a great book. However, reading it is so time consuming that you will not actually get a full view of the theology of the Church, or even of Thomistic theology. One can still follow the recommendations of Popes without reading the whole thing. Also, how seminaries are run depends on the vision of the current Pope. The most recent document published on this topic was Blessed John Paul II’s encyclical Pastores Dabo Vobis. I recommend you read it.
 
The entire Summa is not read for a number of reasons.

It is very long. We’re talking about volumes, not one big book.

There are many branches of theology that we have to cram into a four-year Master’s program

It is available to those who want to get an STD in Systematic Theology

It is no longer required by Canon Law

If you belong to a religious order, you have to make room for your own doctors, teachers, masters and theologians

That being said, Aquinas is still taught. However, depending on where you go for your degree, there may not be one course devoted to him. He will come up in different courses. For example, in Rome, where I went to school, he came up in everything, including our pasta. However, we did not have single course just on his work.

For example, if you were in Moral Theology class, you would get: “Aquinas said this and Leonard of Port Maurice said that.” If you were in systematic theology, “Aquinas said this about the Immaculate Conceptiion, but John duns Scotus said that.” After five-years, you knew enough about him and his writings in different areas of theology and you knew his strengths and weaknesses, without neglecting al of the other scholars in the history of the Church.

I remember reading somewhere that our current Holy Father is not an expert in Aquinas. He completed two theology degrees, one on Bonaventure and Franciscan theology and the other on Augustine and the Augustinian masters. It shows in his writings. If you read Jesus of Nazareth, it’s approach is a blend between Augustine and Bonaventure. He uses Augustine’s affection and Bonaventure’s historical theology to explain Jesus. He does not use too much from Scholastic Theology.

He arrives at the same place that Aquinas would get to, but using a different system. Aquinas is not so much about content as he is about system. His content is found in most theological writers, before and after him. His system is unique to him. It’s what makes him a genius. I love his system. Though I have to admit that Iike him more as a person. His life is a wonderful read, even more impressive than his Summa. His simplicity, joy, warmth, humility, sense of humor, compassion for the poor, and his love for his dear Dominic are moving. This was a real person and we tend to forget that part of him.

His work can teach us a great deal about theology. His life can teach us how to be very simple saints as he was.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Oh? Where was this?
At the Council of Trent
Yes, but that doesn’t equate reading the whole thing. Again, it’s a great book. However, reading it is so time consuming that you will not actually get a full view of the theology of the Church, or even of Thomistic theology.
Yes, this is very true; there have been many commentaries of the Summa over the past 700 years that are very important.
One can still follow the recommendations of Popes without reading the whole thing. Also, how seminaries are run depends on the vision of the current Pope. The most recent document published on this topic was Blessed John Paul II’s encyclical Pastores Dabo Vobis. I recommend you read it.
Thank you
 
It is my understanding that Aquinas was not a fan of the Carmelites and actually worked towards our demise, though that did not happen (Thank God!).
Couldn’t the same be said of the Franciscans, too?

I love how Dante has St. Thomas recount the life of St. Francis in Canto XI of his Paradiso and, reciprocally, the Franciscan St. Bonaventure recount the life of the Dominican St. Dominic in Canto XII. It definitely brings things into perspective.
 
Couldn’t the same be said of the Franciscans, too?

I love how Dante has St. Thomas recount the life of St. Francis in Canto XI of his Paradiso and, reciprocally, the Franciscan St. Bonaventure recount the life of the Dominican St. Dominic in Canto XII. It definitely brings things into perspective.
Let’s put things into perspective. After a rather tumultuous life, Dante eventually became a Franciscan Brother of Penance (Secular Franciscan). In those days, they were truly penitents, not simply a group that met once a month. They followed the rule of St. Francis very literally. This came about after he reflected a great deal on the debates between the Dominicans and the Franciscans in Florence, where the Dominicans promoted Aquinas and his system and the Franciscans promoted Bonaventure and Franciscan Mysticism. Dante was moved by the Franciscans’ love for the mystical and love of Love. It is said that he even participated in some of these debates.

We should understand that when these great theological minds debated, they were not like CAFers. They were not out for blood, nor out to win an argument or push an agenda. Debates were more scholarly than the ones that we have here. They followed rules and they meant to expose a point, not to score points. The merits were awarded not on the content, but on the presentation. You wanted to impress your listeners by your erudition. In other words, these folks were not enemies, not even in disagreement with each other. They were scholars, pure and simple.

The Franciscans won over the common people and the Dominicans won over the scholars. That’s been happening since then. Both sides were happy, because both wanted to bring souls to Christ.

The fact was that Bonaventure and Aquinas got into trouble at the University of Paris when the mendicants were kicked out. They united their forces to get back into the university and they triumphed. It was not the Summa of either that triumphed, but the holiness and tenacity of both men.

They were each other’s greatest admirers. Bonaventure admired Aquinas’ genius and his system. Aquinas admired Bonaventure’s love for St. Francis. It’s said that Aquinas was moved when Bonaventure said that the only way that he would accept being a bishop and a cardinal was if he could remain at his post in the order. He was unwilling to leave his friars. When asked why, his response was almost childlike. “I promised to take care of the brothers.” Bonaventure had been elected the Minister General the year before. He had also been assigned to be the scullery maid at the friary in Paris, two assignments that he took very seriously.

He read Aquinas’ Summa and gave him feedback. Aquinas also read his work and gave him feedback. Interestingly, they died within a few months of each other.

There is a very beautiful story about Aquinas in Franciscan history. It seems that he had brought a part of his Summa to share with his buddy, Bonaventure. When the friar went to get Bonaventure, he was unable to get his attention. The friar reported to Aquinas that Brother Bonaventure was contemplating the life of the Holy Father (Francis not the pope). Aquinas smiled and said, “Leave the saint to attend to his saint.” He left. There was always a fraternal relationship between them.
Not on a Carmelite altar.

It is my understanding that Aquinas was not a fan of the Carmelites and actually worked towards our demise, though that did not happen (Thank God!).
Actually, that story has been misunderstood over the centuries. It began with a misunderstanding. That’s probably why the story has been misunderstood.

As far as everyone was concerned, the Carmelites were hermits who lived in Palestine. When they returned to Europe and Pope Honorius grants them mendicant status, there was a lot of misunderstanding. That’s what happens when you don’t have mass communication. Some erroneously believed that they were heretics. It just happened that St. Albert has also written a rule for the Humiliati. Though the Humiliati themselves were not heretics, there were heretical groups that came from them. Because the Brothers of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel come with a rule by St. Albert, this sent up all kinds of red flags. Was this just another version of heretics from the same line that could be traced back to the Humiliati?

As I understand it, there was also a conflict among the friars as to their priority, a life of solitude, silence and prayer or an apostolic life.

I was not only Aquinas, but many leaders in the Church at the time who were uncomfortable with these new mendicants who were allegedly hermits the day before. I’m not saying allegedly. That’s how they appeared. I have read ancient references to the White Friars by the Franciscans of the day. Though the Franciscans did not oppose the presence of the Carmelites, they were not so sure what to think. When St. Louis IX, who was then the General Minister of the Franciscan Brothers and Sisters of Penance, opened the Carmelite Priory in Paris, everyone breathed easily. St. Louis was a respected and holy man, the shadow that had been cast over the new friars was finally gone. That would be my guess, if I had to extrapolate from the little information that we actually written by Aquinas about the White Friars as they were known.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top