Sen. Kerry Says Language Used by Both Sides in Abortion-Rights Debate Often 'Misleadi

[Listener]

I think that abortion is very wrong, but I get very tired of all of the negative comments about John Kerry. Women are the ones who make decisions about whether or not to have an abortion, and my understanding that many times they don’t even feel that they have this thing called “choice.” That is because their men want nothing to do with children and demand that they have abortions.

I don’t think that John Kerry has had an abortion lately, and I don’t know of any cases where he has personally demanded that a woman have an abortion. I doubt if he has ever participated in an abortion or encouraged any woman to have one.

I think he is just saying that in a secular society, religious laws can’t always match secular laws. I never heard him say that abortion is a good thing.

Anyway, George Bush has been president for more years than I can stand, and I can’t help but notice that abortion is still with us.

 

[Magster]

It seems we have to get back to the very basics and remind people (including politicians) of the Catholic teaching that human life is SACRED. That concept (which is true) is completely incompatible with any support for abortion at any stage, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, and any other procedure that disrupts the natural progression of human life from conception (meaning fertilized egg) to natural death.

I would love to see a post-abortive woman who has come to the realization of what abortion is, and who has experienced the trauma that abortion often brings, run for public office and make as a platform issue the incredible damage that abortion does to women, not to mention the unborn child. Wouldn’t a debate between such a candidate and a pro-abort candidate be something to wake up others?

 

[JimG]

Women are the ones who make decisions about whether or not to have an abortion, and my understanding that many times they don’t even feel that they have this thing called “choice.” That is because their men want nothing to do with children and demand that they have abortions.

So apparently women are not the ones who make all the decisions about abortion. Abortion has been good for men, freeing them of responsibility for children, child support, and commitment to women.

 

[mlchance]

I think that abortion is very wrong, but I get very tired of all of the negative comments about John Kerry.
…
I think he is just saying that in a secular society, religious laws can’t always match secular laws. I never heard him say that abortion is a good thing.

Abortion isn’t a religious issue. It is a human rights issue. Senator Kerry is not just in favor of keeping abortion legal. When he campaigned for the White House, he did so supporting a political platform that would have increased the numbers of abortions being performed by forcing taxpayers to directly fund abortions. Senator Kerry also promised to nominate only justices who would rule to keep Roe and Doe as the law of the land.

If folks want “negative comments about John Kerry” to stop, maybe Senator Kerry should stop working so hard to make it easier for people to kill babies.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[jimmy]

I suggest you guys not to become women. Or Jews either.

So now you have to experience being a woman to call abortion murder? That is complete nonsense. I hope you never criticize the war in Iraq since you are not a soldier. I hope you never criticize the president since you have never been president. I hope you never criticize your local congressman because you have never been a congressman. I hope you never condemn murder since you will never face what that person faced. I hope you never condemn rape, incest, or pedophilia because you have never faced what the rapist goes through.

Your defense of abortion leads to complete anarchy because it is everyone for themselves. You assume that since someone never was pregnant therefore they can’t say abortion is evil. It is a rediculous statement that has no meaning at all.

 

[MikeinSD]

So now you have to experience being a woman to call abortion murder? That is complete nonsense. I hope you never criticize the war in Iraq since you are not a soldier. I hope you never criticize the president since you have never been president. I hope you never criticize your local congressman because you have never been a congressman. I hope you never condemn murder since you will never face what that person faced. I hope you never condemn rape, incest, or pedophilia because you have never faced what the rapist goes through.

Your defense of abortion leads to complete anarchy because it is everyone for themselves. You assume that since someone never was pregnant therefore they can’t say abortion is evil. It is a rediculous statement that has no meaning at all.

I was not defending anything. I pointed out how easy it was for folks not on the front line to pass judgement. You are not a woman. Aren’t you glad you don’t have to worry about having an abortion. In fact, chances of you getting an abortion are really really low. So do you praise God that you are not a woman? Easy to judge when you are not faced with the problem.

Aren’t you glad you are not Jewish. None of your relatives were transported to death camps, shoved into gas chambers, and burned into ash. Therefore isn’t easy to drop Holocaust analogies. No skin off your back. Hey, perhaps you should thank God everyday you are not a woman or Jew.

Let’s talk about issues you might actually have to face.

How much money do you make? How much do you want to earn?
What and who are you willing to sacrifice to get your desired income?

How much time are you willing to steal from yr family to earn the cash you think you need?

Do you cheat on yr taxes? What do you think about tax cheaters when your country is at war?

How much self esteem comes from your bank accounts? Do you think people with larger bank accounts are more moral than people with less money? Why not?

How much income do you, as a Christian, need? What would you do get that money?

What would you compromise to earn more cash? If yr boss was gay and invited you to a party, would you go? What if you knew that you networked there that you get an opportunity to earn more cash?

How much money do you need to feel successful?

Do you know at all what Jesus said about money? What do you think about what Jesus said? How do you follow Jesus with your money issues?

I think passing judgements might be harder answering these personal questions. Because it’s a lot harder when questions affect you financially. And cash means status.

How

 

[jimmy]

I was not defending anything. I pointed out how easy it was for folks not on the front line to pass judgement. You are not a woman. Aren’t you glad you don’t have to worry about having an abortion. In fact, chances of you getting an abortion are really really low. So do you praise God that you are not a woman? Easy to judge when you are not faced with the problem.

It doesn’t matter if I am a man or a woman. Yes, it is easy for someone to judge when they are not in the position, but when it comes down to truth you must defend the truth. Of course you should have compasion but your post basically said that since we are not women that means that we can not make a statement on abortion. That is absolute nonsense. Since a woman does not live in the womb, she can not kill the baby in the womb. She does not face the problem of being in the womb.

Aren’t you glad you are not Jewish. None of your relatives were transported to death camps, shoved into gas chambers, and burned into ash. Therefore isn’t easy to drop Holocaust analogies. No skin off your back. Hey, perhaps you should thank God everyday you are not a woman or Jew.

The only reason why I am glad I am not Jewish is because Catholicism is the truth. If I were a Jew I would be proud to say my ancestors suffered for their faith. It is nothing to be ashamed of. As a Catholic I am proud of the Christians that suffered in Germany, like St Maximillian Kolbe, St. Teresa Benedicta of the cross, and many others. I am proud of those Christians who suffered under communist Russia. I am proud of the nun who was martyred in somalia. I am proud to associate myself with them. And I wish to immitate their virtue.

Let’s talk about issues you might actually have to face.

Abortion is not a womans issue, it is a human issue. I have to face it just as much as any woman does because it pertains to the human person and to the trancendant truth.

How much money do you make? How much do you want to earn?

I want no money. I hate money, it does nothing but corrupt. The only money I want is to pay my bills. If I have no money at the end of the day it really will not change my life. So if you really want to make this about decisions I must make you will have to throw the money issue out.

What and who are you willing to sacrifice to get your desired income?

It really is an irrelevant question since money does not matter to me.

How much time are you willing to steal from yr family to earn the cash you think you need?

Another irrelevant question.

Do you cheat on yr taxes? What do you think about tax cheaters when your country is at war?

No, I do not. It doesn’t matter whether they are at war or not, I oppose cheating on taxes. Read Romans.

How much self esteem comes from your bank accounts? Do you think people with larger bank accounts are more moral than people with less money? Why not?

I have about 600 bucks in my bank account. And all that will be going to bills. Self esteem? Not much to become proud over.

How much income do you, as a Christian, need? What would you do get that money?

Redundant questions.

What would you compromise to earn more cash?

Irrelevant.

If yr boss was gay and invited you to a party, would you go? What if you knew that you networked there that you get an opportunity to earn more cash?

It depends on his attitude toward the issue of homosexuality. The term gay normally means that the person is proud to be homosexual and supports the gay community. If my boss were like this I would most likely not go.

I don’t understand your second question.

How much money do you need to feel successful?

Redundant.

Do you know at all what Jesus said about money? What do you think about what Jesus said? How do you follow Jesus with your money issues?

I agree with what Jesus said.

I think passing judgements might be harder answering these personal questions. Because it’s a lot harder when questions affect you financially. And cash means status.

As I said, I don’t care about status or cash. I would prefer to be poor. I actually admire the preist and monk and nun who have no money.

 

[Saint_Michael]

Basically, lots of folks find it easy to condemn actions that they disapprove of but whose lives they will never face. The chances of a man getting an abortion are very low. And the chance of a conservative christian man being stuffed into an oven by Nazis are also pretty low in 2006 the United States.

A man may never get an abortion, but he is certainly affected by the abortion decision? If a woman aborts she killed his child which can have haunting effects for the remainder of both their lives. If she doesn’t abort he is either:

A. Father the child for life
B. At the very least pay about 45% of his take home pay to the mother for the next 20 years.

Either way I would say it’s a fairly sizeable affect for the man.

I don’t get your indignation for people calling abortion sinful. Calling abortion sinful is not “cheap grace”. No Christian can reasonably be pro-choice, it’s impossible.

My wife got pregnant at 19 I was 22, I was making $18,000 a year as a Coporal of Marines. We were young scared but we didn’t abort, we still struggle because college, and savings were out of the question. We scrimp and scratch through life, but we don’t regret our decision, our son would be dead if we aborted,and I think it would ahve a profound effect on me.

 

[MikeinSD]

It doesn’t matter if I am a man or a woman. Yes, it is easy for someone to judge when they are not in the position, but when it comes down to truth you must defend the truth. Of course you should have compasion but your post basically said that since we are not women that means that we can not make a statement on abortion. That is absolute nonsense. Since a woman does not live in the womb, she can not kill the baby in the womb. She does not face the problem of being in the womb.

The only reason why I am glad I am not Jewish is because Catholicism is the truth. If I were a Jew I would be proud to say my ancestors suffered for their faith. It is nothing to be ashamed of. As a Catholic I am proud of the Christians that suffered in Germany, like St Maximillian Kolbe, St. Teresa Benedicta of the cross, and many others. I am proud of those Christians who suffered under communist Russia. I am proud of the nun who was martyred in somalia. I am proud to associate myself with them. And I wish to immitate their virtue.

Abortion is not a womans issue, it is a human issue. I have to face it just as much as any woman does because it pertains to the human person and to the trancendant truth.

I want no money. I hate money, it does nothing but corrupt. The only money I want is to pay my bills. If I have no money at the end of the day it really will not change my life. So if you really want to make this about decisions I must make you will have to throw the money issue out.

It really is an irrelevant question since money does not matter to me.

Another irrelevant question.

No, I do not. It doesn’t matter whether they are at war or not, I oppose cheating on taxes. Read Romans.

I have about 600 bucks in my bank account. And all that will be going to bills. Self esteem? Not much to become proud over.

Redundant questions.

Irrelevant.

It depends on his attitude toward the issue of homosexuality. The term gay normally means that the person is proud to be homosexual and supports the gay community. If my boss were like this I would most likely not go.

I don’t understand your second question.

Redundant.

I agree with what Jesus said.

As I said, I don’t care about status or cash. I would prefer to be poor. I actually admire the preist and monk and nun who have no money.

So I’m reading questions about yr own morality are irrelevant or redundant. And therefore do not deserve an answer. Just other people’s morality is yr issue. How convenient for you.

I actually like yr response to the role of money in yr life. It sounds Christian. Thats very rare and most older men will not agree with your morality. Because current Christian morality seems to have absolutely nothing to do with money. Other than lack of money seems like some moral weakness. Don’t understand this obession with dry goods in face of centuries of Christian teachings about preference for the poor.

I wrote those questions because so many men pound themselves on the back for not getting an abortion. Pure moralists on a black and white issue and very proud of their stance. But bring dollars into the morality question, and these guys turn into learned theologians with all sorts of nuanced insights that turn clear New Testament teachings into shades of gray – i.e. – their transgressions don’t count. Money changes everything. And protesting other people’s problems is just so easy.

 

[mlchance]

So I’m reading questions about yr own morality are irrelevant or redundant. And therefore do not deserve an answer. Just other people’s morality is yr issue. How convenient for you.

No, the issue is people killing unborn humans. Try to stay on-topic. Remember: Killing unborn humans = a thing to do.

But since you brought up the evils of money, how about you focus your oh-so-keen fiduciary powers upon the multi-billion dollar a year, taxpayer-funded abortion industry? Or is it only Christians whom money can corrupt? Like, for example, Senator Kerry, who I’m quite certain gets more than a few dollars from people who think killing unborn children is a great way to make a buck.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[jimmy]

So I’m reading questions about yr own morality are irrelevant or redundant. And therefore do not deserve an answer. Just other people’s morality is yr issue. How convenient for you.

I answered your questions. Some were redundant because they were the same question that was already asked. Since I do not care about money some of the questions are really irrelevant. Who am I willing to sacrifice? No one because I really don’t care about money. If you want me to take a moral stance on money vs. family, I will say that you should sacrifice no one to get money. A person bears the image and likeness of God so they come first.

 

[MikeinSD]

No, the issue is people killing unborn humans. Try to stay on-topic. Remember: Killing unborn humans = a thing to do.

But since you brought up the evils of money, how about you focus your oh-so-keen fiduciary powers upon the multi-billion dollar a year, taxpayer-funded abortion industry? Or is it only Christians whom money can corrupt? Like, for example, Senator Kerry, who I’m quite certain gets more than a few dollars from people who think killing unborn children is a great way to make a buck.

– Mark L. Chance.

Abortion is a procedure, not an industry. You can research medical payments for abortion by asking the various medical insurance companies. You can research payments to various providers. I guess you can also try to interview women who had abortions and get a statistically significant group and try to formulate an average cost. That will take time and effort. Good luck with that.

As for the OP, I give my originial reply: aren’t you glad you are not a woman.

 

[mlchance]

Abortion is a procedure, not an industry.

In 1995, the WSJ estimated that abortion is a $450 million a year business. Abortionists hire marketing consultants, buy advertising space in magazines and newspapers, et cetera.

But nice try at the dodge. Since it’s obvious you have nothing real to contribute, it’s safe to ignore your responses.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[MikeinSD]

In 1995, the WSJ estimated that abortion is a $450 million a year business. Abortionists hire marketing consultants, buy advertising space in magazines and newspapers, et cetera.

But nice try at the dodge. Since it’s obvious you have nothing real to contribute, it’s safe to ignore your responses.

– Mark L. Chance.

So you don’t have to answer them. Good for you. Closed minds respond only to echos and run from the light.

And aren’t you glad you’re not a woman.

 

[dwc]

Hi, Mike, I am a woman and I have always been against abortion, even when I was younger and wilder and very tempted to do things which might have resulted in me being young, unmarried and pregnant. The main reason I didn’t engage in premarital sex was because I didn’t want to risk the temptation of taking the easy way out by killing a baby, my baby, rather than face the consequences of my actions.

The inconvenient truth (small pun intended here) is that abortion ends innocent human life and that is murder. I know many Christians are pro-choice and I’ve always wanted to ask them how they reconcile that with their faith. Where in the bible is there anything that even hints at Jesus approving of abortion. Can you even imagine a conversation in which He would do anything but condemn this?

I’m familiar with the legalistic response – I’m against it personally and would never have one, but I can’t impose my faith on others and so they have to have the right to choose. Well, swell, but abortion is the unjustified killing of unborn humans. That’s murder. No one would seriously argue that they would never personally murder/rape/batter another person, but they don’t want to impose their values on anyone else. Society constantly imposes values on us through its laws. The only reason abortion is different is because these unborn humans reside in their mothers’ bodies and along the way it was decided that women must have control over their bodies, even at the expense of the life of their child, even if they are responsible for getting pregnant in the first place.

You heard me right: in the vast majority of rape cases, the woman engaged in consensual sex and therefore it is her responsibility she is pregnant. Yes, it takes two, but in the vast majority of cases the man wouldn’t have had an opportunity to get the woman pregnant if she didn’t allow it.

Women have worked long and hard to gain equal rights and opportunities and yet when it comes to abortion so many of the women who most vocally proclaim women’s competence do a 180 degree about face. According to them, if strong, smart, competent women have sexual intercourse and end up pregnant when they don’t want to be, women’s independence can only be preserved by guaranteeing these women the right to kill their own unborn child. In other words, women just can’t be held responsible for their decision to have sex. Say what?

Moral issues aside, that’s plain insulting. I am strong and smart and competent and responsible enough to make responsible decisions in all aspects of my life, including my sex life. Again, religious and moral issues aside, there is no way I or any of my women friends would kill an innocent to escape responsibility for something we did.