Senator John Kerry Excommunicated?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DominvsVobiscvm
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Evan:

I’m not buying it.

The dogmas of the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception were also known and defined for hundreds of years before they were dogmatized. The Popes added nothing new with regard to these.

The Pope is not restricted to using the word “define” when he makes a dogmatic definition. In fact, the statement by the Holy Father actually does define what abortion is:
I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium. No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church.
Click to expand...
The doctrine of papal infallibility has to rank among the most useless doctrine of the Church. It’s supposed to provide the Church with a basis for unity, but in fact it is absolutely impossible for any Catholic to say definitively whether or not any given statement is infallible.

Sigh

I hope an Ecumenical Council is convoked soon to clarify all these ambiguities . . .
 
40.png
theMutant:
None. The First Vatican Council did not give the specific language required for making an ex cathedra declaration. This is the point I made in my poll on whether or not Ordinatio Sacerdotalis contained an infallible ex cathedra statement. All of those who argued against the position failed to show in what way the statement in question failed to meet the criteria defined by Vatican I. I feel that the same will be the case regarding the statement in Evangelium Vitae.
Click to expand...
But Father Basil Cole (the guy the CDF delegated to respond to this Kerry issue) disagrees with you.

He says,
In regard to the level of magisterium, the teaching on abortion is not solemnly defined by the Roman Pontiff, as in the declarations of Mary’s Immaculate Conception or her Assumption. The General Councils of the Church have not hurled anathemas against those who disbelieve this doctrine. To claim that this truth of our faith is a solemnly defined truth would not be factual, but is close to it and could be one day, if the Pope ex cathedra, or a General Council in union with him, solemnly defined it as such.

The Church has prudentially thought that such solemn acts of definition are not needed…
Click to expand...
Now, I know he’s not infallible, but it certainly appears the CDF trusts him. Either way, ex cathedra or ordinary magisterium, Catholics can rest with full confidence that the teaching in question is of divine origin (which goes for Ordinatio Sacerdotalis too).
 
40.png
DominvsVobiscvm:
Evan:
I’m not buying it.
Click to expand...
Well… That’s my understanding. Based on some explanations I’ve read from some theologians trying it identify how one can determine if a statement is an ex cathedra statement.

I believe that we must submit to the teaching of the magisterium even on items that are not taught ex cathedra. We can doubt them personally, but we must teach others in accord with the magisterium.

(How’s that for diverting your attention with a new thought?)
 
JOHN_HENRY

So you say the Pope is not infallable, and the doctrine is useless. Then stand firm and discuss how the Popes stance on abortion is morally incorrect. Ex cathedera or not!

You can only question whether the statement claims infallabity itself, not the moral teaching of the statement. This actually helps the infallability case.
 
40.png
DominvsVobiscvm:
It is morally licit to vote for the “lesser of two evils.”

A vote for a candidate is not an endorsement, tacit or otherwise, of all of what he believes in or stands for. It’s simply a choice of, out of the possible candidates for election, who would you rather see run the country. …
Click to expand...
I agree. My point is that a Catholic cannot cast a vote for *either * Kerry or Bush if one is casting a vote with the intention of supporting their candidate’s party position on abortion, since both parties support legal abortion.

If one is to vote for either Bush or Kerry, one must decide which of these flawed candidates will bring about the greatest good for the nation. A Catholic may vote for one of these candidates only if he is voting for the good that he believes the candidate may bring about. He may not cast a vote because he wants to see legalized abortion protected, not even for the cases of rape, incest, or if a woman’s life is in danger due to pregnancy. IOW, a Catholic could vote for Kerry if he thought that having Kerry in office will bring about more good for the world than having Bush in office. But a Catholic cannot vote for Kerry because he or she is in agreement with the Democratic Party’s position on legalized abortion. The same reasoning applies to casting a vote for Bush, since the Republicans support legalized abortion under the guise of the “exeception clauses”.

One must consider this gruesome fact when voting in the coming election - that under Bush, the nation has seen a rise in the abortion rate, because under Bush there are more Americans living in poverty. A vote for Bush will not necessarily lower the abortion rate in the nation – it may actually do the opposite because of Bush’s support for economic injustice.
 
Why would some of you sound so gleeful about a person possibly being excommunicated? It’s a tragedy, not something to rejoice over.
 
40.png
Sweetcakes:
Why would some of you sound so gleeful about a person possibly being excommunicated? It’s a tragedy, not something to rejoice over.
Click to expand...
Sweetcakes,
I agree with you. Getting a joy out someone’s failures is very serious sin.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top