Senior German Priest Calls Homosexuality a Sickness. A Report

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No kidding.

That is why most people I know who are gay are so disturbed by what some Catholics present as 'Catholic teaching".

It is difficult to be told you are “disordered” and that you can never have a loving, intimate relationship.
It is also infuriating to have people compare you to a child molester, say that all you think about is sex and that you want to entice others to become gay.

I have seen all this and more on this forum and in real life. There is a segment of the Catholic population that treat gay people like they are the most unholy of things on the planet. It is sad.
 
CilladeRoma said:
It is difficult to be told you are “disordered” and that you can never have a loving, intimate relationship.
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Which is why we need to read the CCC in context and actually read what the Church teaches on this topic. I recommend looking at the Courage Apostolate’s Website
 
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Its not the Catechism that is the problem, it is how others use it and it’s language to demean and belittle gay people.
 
CilladeRoma said:
it is how others use it and it’s language to demean and belittle gay people.
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which is why, during those conversations with other Catholics, using the CCC may be the best way to bring your point across
 
It’s worked really well here. :roll_eyes:

We just have to face facts, there is a segment of the Catholic population that vilifies gay people- even chaste gay people.

I have never heard anyone talk about any other sin “crying out for vengeance from the Lord”. I have never heard anyone say that a serial adulterer is going to entice young people to do the same.

I could go on & on, but we all know it happens, it seems like most just don’t care.
 
CilladeRoma said:
We just have to face facts, there is a segment of the Catholic population that vilifies gay people- even chaste gay people.
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And that is unfortunate as those Catholics are just doing damage to Christ’s cause.
 
If you are addressing me, you can stop.
I am not gay. I am happily married and have been for nearly 30 years.
I do have many gay friends, some Catholic and some not. Most have been hurt deeply by “church people” and their anti-gay rhetoric.
 
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Thorolfr said:
What Scripture has to say about the topic is not as clear as some people seem to think. It says in Romans 1:
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Context, my friend, is a real thing.

I am glad you brought this up, as Romans 1 is one of the go to verses to show the evil of homosexuality extended to the New Testament. But I wonder how many that use it actual have read the Bible, the big context, or at least all of Romans. Paul was not listing sins. He was explaining that sin is universal, coming from a context of history. He actual is condemning the past, “since the beginning of creation.” He is saying we should all see that we are all equally sinners. The next part, he turns the corner:
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
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He is saying the opposite of what a lot of people think. The only thing condemned is judgment. Homosexuality is but one of 21 sins listed, and there is no reason to see this as a list. The point we are all sinners. We all should know this. Therefore, condemning others condemns ourselves, which we should already know from the “Our Father.”

Then he goes on to explain salvation from this mess.
 
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Not to single you out CJ, but this right here is a big part of the problem.
I don’t know one gay person who uses this terminology. In fact, other than on this forum and in some of my of my more conservative circles, I had never heard the term before.
 
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I know that is what you hear here.
What I am saying is that no gay people I know talk like that and they don’t particularly like term.
For them, gay is gay.
 
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But also a choice to follow or not same as it is for all heterosexual married & single men and women. I could easily justify fooling around on my husband if I really wanted to. But my CHOICE is not even to lean in that direction or make a choice on my feelings in that direction. It is by the Grace of God that I keep my marriage vows and not give in to satan’s lies.
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Heterosexual married people have a spouse to go to for companionship and intimacy. Going to someone else would be a betrayal of one’s spouse. Most unmarried straight people probably hope to get married some day and have an intimate and loving relationship. The choice given to gay people for the most part is a life without the same kind of companionship and intimacy and without even the hope of it.

And even though I don’t really agree with Catholic teaching on this subject, I also don’t expect devout Catholics to change their minds and come out and say that gay people should go have gay sex. But I am still a little bothered by the fact that same-sex relationships are talked about mostly here in CAF in terms of sex and lust and temptation which tends to trivialize them. The real human needs that gay people have for companionship and intimacy are rarely acknowledged. Unhelpful and unkind comparisons and references are made to masturbation, adultery, narcissism, mental illness, etc. If someone brings up the love, goodness, kindness, loyalty, and deep friendship they’ve witnessed in a same-sex relationship, this is kind of dismissed as irrelevant.
 
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CilladeRoma said:
I know that is what you hear here.
What I am saying is that no gay people I know talk like that and they don’t particularly like term.
For them, gay is gay.
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Mark Jordan, a professor at Washington University who writes a lot about Catholic theology as it relates to homosexuality commented in one of his books that most documents in the Catholic Church that discuss homosexuality talk about gay people but rarely talk to them, and never using the terms that they use to refer to themselves. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a document in 1997 called, “Always Our Children: A Pastoral Message to the Parents of Homosexual Children and Suggestions for Pastoral Ministries,” which again talks about gay people to their parents, but doesn’t talk to them. It starts out:
The purpose of this pastoral message is to reach out to parents trying to cope with the discovery of homosexuality in their adolescent or adult child. It urges families to draw upon the reservoirs of faith, hope, and love as they face uncharted futures. It asks them to recognize that the Church offers enormous spiritual resources to strengthen and support them at this moment in their family’s life and in the days to come.
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But there is no “pastoral message” to the homosexual children themselves.
 
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You do realize that happens because there is fear that the people who are supposed to love them no matter what are going to reject them for something they have no control over.
 
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When straight people imagine coming out they imagine a tearful, dramatic revelation all at once, but Alex’s story is like mine: by degrees, when it’s safe, when it’s too late for them to ruin your life. Coming out is brave not because it is vaguely “scary,” like a school play; it is brave because it is dangerous. Some people get violent; some punish you financially; some just love you a little less, forever. You let them see the little fraction of yourself that you can trust them with, because you’ve learned love is almost always conditional.
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Thorolfr said:
Unhelpful and unkind comparisons and references are made to masturbation, adultery, narcissism
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I don’t think these comparisons are always meant to be unkind. Such comparisons could serve to demonstrate the universality of Man as a sinner, to hearken back to your Romans quote.

As an older person, I have noted that the intimacy that I value most in a marriage has increasingly become the intellectual and emotional intimacy. This is not something that need be denied anyone. It is regretful that what you said, and what Fr. Martin has similarly said, has been lost in all rush to add stuff to what he said and put words in his mouth. Again, I am no fan (of Fr. Martin), but I know a hit job when I see it.
 
I wonder what Jesus thought about Peter’s feelings… ‘Get behind me satan’.
Indeed narrow is the way and many will fall whether straight or gay
 
I recall as a boy/kid, ‘playing’ with other boys. Now I regret it

Indeed let God be true and every man a lie Romans 3:4
 
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mdgspencer said:
The lecture stated that even if romantically expressed, homosexuality came from a “narcissistic search” for masculinity.
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Respectfully disagree on being narcissistic!! Rather pondering:face_with_hand_over_mouth: believe… one is born that way maybe, through… no fault of their own… for young children at a very young age become aware of such and have been reported in many sources?

Maybe one day Science will find understanding…maybe a gene weakness or weakness within ones hormone or a etc?

Jesus stating…Some are born this way…

Some are born with brown eyes some have blue eyes
Some are born right handed some are born left handed
Some are born with health issues some are not
Some are born fully developed in all areas some are not still to be fully developed
Some are born allergic to milk some are not…
Some very young children yet not walking need glasses some do not, Some can hear clearly at birth some are born deaf…just example.🤔🤔🤔

Can this be applied to what Jesus is stating in Matthew 19:12 …Some are born this way…as written in Matthew Jesus teaching… Who ever can accept this ought to accept it?

Written in Matthew on the topic of marriage…for some where not marrying, why and surely homosexual was known in Jesus time also, right? After discussing marriage, divorce, not marrying pondering this topic must of entered into the discussion also then Jesus says?

Homosexuality is not something new surely it existed since the beginning of time in Moses time but was never an issue why? 🤭

Matthew 19: 12 Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some because they were made so by others; some they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.

Some Born so? 🤭
Some made so by others?🤭
Some renounce marriage for the kingdom of heaven?🤭

Interesting thou the last one for in Jesus time one had to be married, have children to be a priest or High Priest…having to not break the law given and in obeying the commandment in genius …commanded to go froth be fruitful and multiply the earth, right?

Jesus stating in Matthew 19 >If they marry and commit adultery far better they do not marry? 🤭

Just pondering respectfully not agreeing it is a sickness…some are born this way…Love all my brothers and sisters in all walks of life:heart:. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:Peace:heart:
 
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Asonglaw said:
I wonder what Jesus thought about Peter’s feelings… ‘Get behind me satan’.
Indeed narrow is the way and many will fall whether straight or gay
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Respectfully have no idea when Jesus rebukes St Peter it was about being homosexuality was it?
Opinion only…pondering on :face_with_hand_over_mouth:The word satan is a word first used in the OT …accuser, persecutor… means to stop someone from doing good or stopping someone from bringing about good…a persecutor …surely St Peter knew what Jesus was rebuking him for and Jesus knew fully St Peters feelings …his thoughts… and false concerns for him were not good…🤔…thus stand behind me satan ( accuser, persecutor.). …trying to stop Jesus from bringing about good…from accomplishing his mission, task given… having to go to the cross for the salvation of all?

Question …why does homosexuality really never become a grave issue of concern throughout the whole bible nor in Moses time?? Surely it existed?

The word…abomination only means… doing that which is not pleasing unto the Lord right?

Where this is mention is in the Priestly Laws in Leviticus right? Correct me if wrong…

Opinion only in :thinking:Peace
 
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