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VanitasVanitatum
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Bradskii
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Are you married, Van? Imagine meeting that gal and knowing that you could not experience what other people can. That any feeling that you had for her were wrong. That any ideas of a life together were wrong. That just thinking about her as a partner was wrong.Thorolfr:
Everyone has their temptation.
And that wasn’t just the one girl. That was every single one of them. And not just for a year or so until you got over it. But for life.
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VanitasVanitatum
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I have no problem with such.
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Aquinas11
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Happens all the time. It’s lust. And I choose not to act on it.
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Thorolfr
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So, how many other “temptations” would be considered to be a “sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance” if it was acted upon? And how many people have a condition that would for the most part require them to live a life without intimacy if they abide by Church teachings?Thorolfr:
Everyone has their temptation.
Although I don’t agree, I do understand why devout Catholics consider homosexual activity a sin, but I’m still taken aback sometimes by the pretense that gay people aren’t being asked to endure more hardship than most people and by the dismissive attitude towards the real need that most people, gay people included, have for companionship and intimacy in their lives. And then there’s the tendency to reduce gay people’s feelings for each other to nothing more than “lust” and temptation. It strikes me as rather cruel and unkind.
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VanitasVanitatum
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There are other outlets for friendship and the like.
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Thorolfr
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Yes, I hear that said here all the time, but I doubt that anyone really believes that most normal friendships are as deep and profound as a more intimate kind of relationship that someone has with a significant other. Most normal friends aren’t going to be there for you through thick and thin, in sickness and in health. They’re not going to support you if you lose your job or pay your hospital bills if you get sick. They won’t add you to their health insurance if you don’t have any. And they won’t be there for you at the end of every day to hear your most intimate and unguarded thoughts.Thorolfr:
There are other outlets for friendship and the like.
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VanitasVanitatum
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There is also family, but then again even spouses fall away.
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Thorolfr
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What family? I’m an only child and don’t have any siblings. Once my parents pass away, I won’t have any close family. All I’ll have is my same-sex partner who has been there for me and I’ve been there for him almost every day for more than 20 years, in good times and through some very difficult times. He added me to his health insurance when I didn’t have any which is fortunate because I ended up in the hospital for 5 days with one day spent in intensive care because of an acute asthma attack.
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VanitasVanitatum
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He’ll be gone too, and then what?
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Thorolfr
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He’s two years younger than me, so maybe he’ll outlive me.
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VanitasVanitatum
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Life is unpredictable.
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pnewton
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Three.
Killing those close to you. (not a common one)
Mistreatment of the stranger, widow or orphan (more common that homosexuality)
Cheating the wage owner (common only among employers)
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Thorolfr
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Jesus might be walking with you but he’s not going to keep a roof over your head or feed you if you’re starving.
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Thorolfr
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The Bible scholar, Bart Ehrman, used to be a believing Christian, but explains in one of his books what caused him to become agnostic. It was the fact that thousands of people starve to death every day, something that an omnipotent God could prevent if He wanted to.
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theCardinalbird
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I definitely understand where you are coming from. There are times where I want nothing more than to be held by my best guy friend. Part of me feels like it would help with the loneliness I sometimes feel.
However, although I have this desire (which could be a desire that comes from an inner need that wasn’t met and is not malicious in any way), I have to ask if I am mature enough to handle cuddling and being held. The truth is, this constant longing (which is not malicious and not our fault) needs to be accompanied with a rational mind. Many times I thought that one hug or that one moment where I would be cuddling with a guy could be that silver bullet that solves my same sex needs.
But that would not be the case. In fact, if I am not careful I could end up falling into sin because the temptation could be too much.
Now, does this mean that two guys cuddling and hugging each other is active sin? By no means. It could be that cuddling and hugging could fit naturally in a close friendship (and these friendships do exist) but I would advise that we shouldn’t fixate on finding friendships specifically to meet those two needs.
(Final Note) It would be prudent to question whether one is mature enough to cuddle without it being active temptation as we should strive for relationships that bring us closer to God that would not be tainted with anything that could pull us away from him.
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OnAJourney
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Courage is not equipped to deal with this issue. I’m a gay person that is also a practicing Catholic. They say that it’s not this awful terrible thing and yet it seems like they treat it as if its an unspeakable sin. I’ve had close acquaintances tell me their experience with Courage. I don’t want to be closeted or lie about whether I do carry that cross.
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VanitasVanitatum
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Do you do that?
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theCardinalbird
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Which issue specifically?
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OnAJourney
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How homosexuality is discussed. Rather hard to discuss something if Courage take the position that we should be completely silent about it outside of a Courage setting
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