Senior German Priest Calls Homosexuality a Sickness. A Report

[theCardinalbird]

How homosexuality is discussed. Rather hard to discuss something if Courage take the position that we should be completely silent about it outside of a Courage setting

Really? I never got that vibe from their website but then again I haven’t been to one of there meetings, yet.

I suppose I’ll have to see for myself

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

It is discussed here, but judging from the complaints it doesn’t seem to be going well.

 

[Thorolfr]

From what I’ve read, Courage practices the same 12 step model used by AA except where AA uses the word “alcoholism,” they put the word “homosexuality.” The first step:

We admitted that we were powerless over homosexuality and our lives had become unmanageable.

So, they treat Courage members as if they’re sex addicts. A lot of same-sex relationships are about more than just sex.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

The non-sexual parts probably fits into the word homosexuality too.
(I’m not making a statement on the ratios of what they consist of.)

 

[Prodigal_Son]

From what I’ve read, Courage practices the same 12 step model used by AA except where AA uses the word “alcoholism,” they put the word “homosexuality.”

This is not accurate. Although many members of Courage have this approach, the organization does not primarily focus on the 12 steps. It is considered one tool that members find helpful.

But the larger point – that Courage’s approach seems overly private and prone to isolation/shame – is something I agree with. It works well for some people, though, and there are some signs that the organization is shifting in its approaches.

 

[Thorolfr]

I’m not sure how Courage looks at homosexuality, but I’d be most concerned that they have adopted the views of Nicolosi and his group NARTH and peddle the theory that people become gay because of some psychological woundedness that arises from a defective relationship with their parents. People are often encouraged to strive to understand what their parents did to make them gay.

 

[OnAJourney]

How would you say it’s shifting? From my perspective it seems like there’s not much change happening in its approach

 

[Thorolfr]

One thing about Courage is that they strongly disapprove of using the terms “gay” or LGBT". There’s an interview online with Father Philip Bochanski, the director of Courage:

We have to acknowledge that when most people say “gay” or “LGBT” they do not simply mean that a person experiences attractions to the same sex; they presume that that person is open to homosexual intimate acts and relationships, and that that person rejects the teaching of the Church about the immorality of those actions. So it is dangerous to promote ministries in the Church that employ labels that most people, at least outside the Church, take to imply a rejection of the teaching of the Church.

If a person feels strongly that the appropriate way to refer to his or her experience is with a term like “gay” or “LGBT,” the appropriate response is dialogue: What do they mean when they choose such a label? If they’ve chosen it in order to signal that they don’t accept the Church’s teaching, our response should be a charitable invitation to discuss that teaching more deeply, in hopes of leading that person to understand and embrace chastity. If they mean something different, then we ought to discuss whether that label is the most appropriate way to convey what they believe. In either case, simply taking the label at face value, because the person claims it for himself or herself, means shortchanging them of an opportunity to grow in holiness, conversion and discipleship.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

That’s not a real problem and the reasoning isn’t that bad.

 

[OnAJourney]

The reasoning is pretty weak honestly. Whether someone uses the term gay or LGBT it shouldn’t matter. I think the Church gets way off into the weeds on this and makes it larger than it actually is.

Some people who use the term gay are not living up to what the Church teaches. Some, like myself, are trying to. Context is very important here. We can’t just lay down a large blanket generalization and say people shouldn’t use one term over another. What matters is intent; does that person intend to identify as such while living according to what the Church teaches or not?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

What matters is intent; does that person intend to identify as such while living according to what the Church teaches or not?

That is addressed in the statement he quoted.

 

[njlisa]

@CilladeRoma

What I am saying is that no gay people I know talk like that and they don’t particularly like term. For them, gay is gay.

I have to agree. The term “SSA” is not on the radar screen of any of the openly LGBT people I know. They define themselves and their relationships however they wish.

 

[c1949]

Bradskii

5d

c1949:

Respecting individuals with same sex attraction should be the same as respecting someone with cancer…

Oh dear me. But you are in your seventies. I guess I should make allowances

---

you seem to have missed my point or perhaps it wasn’t clear. In both of those situations, the affected individuals would probably not know why they have their respective conditions. Neither one should be deprived of respect.

I don’t see what my age has to do with my remarks. If it does, then I suppose, therefore, that I should make allowances for your age, too.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I’m not sure how Courage looks at homosexuality, but I’d be most concerned that they have adopted the views of Nicolosi and his group NARTH and peddle the theory that people become gay because of some psychological woundedness that arises from a defective relationship with their parents. People are often encouraged to strive to understand what their parents did to make them gay.

Again, this is not accurate. Courage has not adopted the views of NARTH, though you may well hear people talk about such views at a Courage event.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

How would you say it’s shifting? From my perspective it seems like there’s not much change happening in its approach

Well, I haven’t been to a Courage conference in a few years, but as of then, they were encouraging as many people as possible to be open about their association with Courage. That seemed like progress.

 

[jtwp5]

I went to a few courage meetings but it was just starting out in my area. Only 2 other guys besides me and they were a bit older. Very protective of privacy I would say. For me I would rather spend time with my straight catholic friends. One of the guys had alot of issues and I know it’s not his fault but socialization was a bit awkward. Had a priest who led it.

 

[jtwp5]

I would say that that can contribute to SSA. For me I think it was more of my relation with male peers growing up. Therapy has helped me alot. My relationship with dad wasn’t that close when I was younger either, better now.

 

[jtwp5]

Should I not goto therapy with someone involved in NARTH?

 

[Thorolfr]

Should I not goto therapy with someone involved in NARTH?

You’re an adult, so you can decide for yourself. But Nicolosi and NARTH believe in using Reparative Therapy (also called “Conversion Therapy”). Nicolosi himself wrote a book called Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality: A New Clinical Approach (1991). The American Psychiatric Association opposes this type of therapy and considers it unethical.

I also don’t find the theories used by NARTH very convincing. They’re based on ideas that come from Sigmund Freud, especially his concept of an Oedipus Complex, and promote the idea that people become gay because of dysfunctional relationships with their parents when they were growing up, usually cold, distant or absent fathers and smothering mothers. These theories have been around for years and were the most popular theories back in the 1950s and 1960s. The problem as I see it is that there are many gay men who had good parents and perfectly normal childhoods and still turned out gay. There are also lots of straight men who had bad fathers and they still turned out straight.

 

[jtwp5]

My last therapist was very relationship identity based. As in how one relates with mother/father, brother/sister, husband/wife, etc. Used EMDR, was pretty helpful and I have noticed a shift in some things.