Senses and location of 'mind'?

[Qoeleth]

Something concerning which I would appreciate opinions…

It seems (I could be wrong) as if the sense of the locatedness of the mind comes from the position of our sensory organs (eyes, ears, mouth, in the head). For this reason, it seems as if ‘mind’ is located in the head.

Another possible explanation is that, since our brain is located in our head, our ‘mind’ is, in fact, located in our head too. This seems somewhat problematic.

Now, what would happen to our sense of ‘mind’ if our eyes and ears were located somewhere else (say, on our stomachs)? Would that cause our sense of ‘mind’ also to be re-located?

Or, if our senses were ‘turned off’ completely? Would our mind loose all sense of location? Or, being ‘in’ the brain, would it stay in the head?

Has anyone tried sensory-deprivation techniques at all?

 

[mommamaree]

I have pondered this one, too.

My thoughts are that our brain being in our head leads us to assume our mind is in our head. However, brain scans can show where thinking is occurring, but it cannot show where thoughts come from. We cannot look into the brain and observe thoughts or the origin of thoughts. It seems that mind is something greater than the brain, greater than the physical body even. This seems to be supported anecdotally by people who were in a coma or were thought to be brain dead and eventually awoke and returned to a normal life. They often report being able to hear and feel while being brain dead or in a coma. The mind seems to be associated more with the spiritual soul, with its inherent ability to know, to love, and to choose. Just my thoughts…what a great thread! I look forward to seeing what others say.

 

[GEddie]

Even before science understood the functioning of our brain, human life had the sense of its mind being in its head.

We see from our heads; we hear and smell from our heads. Therefore, our world image is head centered.

Even in Scripture, when neuroscience was not yet in motion, Daniel spoke of “the visions of thy head upon thy bed”.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ClearWater]

Something concerning which I would appreciate opinions…

It seems (I could be wrong) as if the sense of the locatedness of the mind comes from the position of our sensory organs (eyes, ears, mouth, in the head). For this reason, it seems as if ‘mind’ is located in the head.

Another possible explanation is that, since our brain is located in our head, our ‘mind’ is, in fact, located in our head too. This seems somewhat problematic.

Now, what would happen to our sense of ‘mind’ if our eyes and ears were located somewhere else (say, on our stomachs)? Would that cause our sense of ‘mind’ also to be re-located?

Or, if our senses were ‘turned off’ completely? Would our mind loose all sense of location? Or, being ‘in’ the brain, would it stay in the head?

Has anyone tried sensory-deprivation techniques at all?

Don’t know.

Don’t know.

Never tried sensory-deprivation techniques. Why? Have you?

 

[GEddie]

There is NO way I would ever go into SD.

ICXC NIKA

 

[judynurse]

Sensory Deprivation has been done as a scientific study, even in the Astronaut program. Those who went through it, (usually for only an hour or two, since panic usually sets in as well as hallucinations after any longer) said they still were able to think, although after about an hour they had a lot of confusion due to lack of sensory stimuli. While we are in the body, sensory (name removed by moderator)ut seems to be necessary to our sense of “being”. I personally think that the “mind”, as opposed to the “brain” is located in the soul, since the Scriptures indicate that we will certainly be able to “think” after we leave the body, and sensory stimuli will not be necessary, and we will not notice or suffer for lack of “sensory” stimuli or sensory deprivation. Our sense of “location” or sensory stimuli, will come directly to the mind, I believe. Since we will not have bodies until after the Last Judgment, obviously the bodily stimuli will not be necessary during the interim.

I too have worked with patients who were in comas, or even considered irreversibly brain damaged. Even those who recovered with some brain damage could remember some things which occurred in their room, conversations, etc… when they awoke. I had one young man who was in a coma for 4 months, not expected to ever wake up, but he not only woke up, but had no brain damage, but did have considerable physical damage, but learned to use an electric wheel chair, and was doing therapy to learn to walk again. (Result of a really bad car accident). What was funny, was he recognized voices, and when one of my younger nurses came into the room to bring him his meal, he recognized her voice, and said “oh, are you still dating so-and-so and in love with him?” She was SO embarrassed! Remember, by the way, when in a room with those who are unconscious, or comatose (or dying) that hearing is the last sense to leave, even after the heart and blood pressure are “0”. This period of hearing can last for 3 to 5 minutes after death, which has been proven by those who have been revived after the heart has stopped.

 

[Qoeleth]

Even before science understood the functioning of our brain, human life had the sense of its mind being in its head.

We see from our heads; we hear and smell from our heads. Therefore, our world image is head centered.

Even in Scripture, when neuroscience was not yet in motion, Daniel spoke of “the visions of thy head upon thy bed”.

ICXC NIKA

Yes, this is my own thinking- the fact that our primary senses are from our head, makes us feel like our mind is in our heads. I wonder what it would it be like if our eyes and ears were located somewhere else (e.g. on our hands, or on our stomachs)? Would our mind feel to be somewhere else?

Does Scripture oftentimes use ‘heart’ as the location of the ‘mind’?

 

[Qoeleth]

Sensory Deprivation has been done as a scientific study, even in the Astronaut program. Those who went through it, (usually for only an hour or two, since panic usually sets in as well as hallucinations after any longer) said they still were able to think, although after about an hour they had a lot of confusion due to lack of sensory stimuli. While we are in the body, sensory (name removed by moderator)ut seems to be necessary to our sense of “being”. I personally think that the “mind”, as opposed to the “brain” is located in the soul, since the Scriptures indicate that we will certainly be able to “think” after we leave the body, and sensory stimuli will not be necessary, and we will not notice or suffer for lack of “sensory” stimuli or sensory deprivation. Our sense of “location” or sensory stimuli, will come directly to the mind, I believe. Since we will not have bodies until after the Last Judgment, obviously the bodily stimuli will not be necessary during the interim.

So perhaps sensory deprivation could be like a foretaste of what it is like to have passed from the body?

A mind without sensory (name removed by moderator)ut is a fascinating thought. I suppose such a mind would lack sense of location, and (eventually) sense of identity. But perhaps such being in such a state would lead to tremendous insights…

 

[Bahman]

Mind cannot have a position being a subjective entity. That makes me believe that space is an illusion together with time. Space is simply extra degree of freedom within supreme Mind.

 

[tonyrey]

So perhaps sensory deprivation could be like a foretaste of what it is like to have passed from the body?

A mind without sensory (name removed by moderator)ut is a fascinating thought. I suppose such a mind would lack sense of location, and (eventually) sense of identity. But perhaps such being in such a state would lead to tremendous insights…

If we had no sense of identity we would cease to be individuals - which is inconsistent with belief in the Communion of Saints. We weren’t created to be ignorant of who we are.

That doesn’t mean that we need to be constantly aware of ourselves. When we love others we forget ourselves…

 

[GEddie]

If we had no sense of identity we would cease to be individuals - which is inconsistent with belief in the Communion of Saints. We weren’t created to be ignorant of who we are.

That doesn’t mean that we need to be constantly aware of ourselves. When we love others we forget ourselves…

Sense of identity comes from the memory, not from the body.

As one psychologist has stated, “Blindfolded and bound, or even cut off by spinal anesthesia from all feeling, I would know myself.”

So if the human memory is spiritual, as Augustine held, your sense of “self” would survive; if it is not, in the Aquinian theory, the human “self” in no way survives death.

Only three things hold the human “self” together; one is of course the body, the second is the stream of consciousness, both of which are lost in death. The third is the memory, which would then be critical to post-biological self hood and the communion of saints.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

We weren’t created to be ignorant of who we are. .

Except we weren’t created to die, either!

 

[GEddie]

If we had no sense of identity we would cease to be individuals - which is inconsistent with belief in the Communion of Saints. We weren’t created to be ignorant of who we are.

That doesn’t mean that we need to be constantly aware of ourselves. When we love others we forget ourselves…

While if our “mind” (intellect and memory) survives the death of the head, we would not lose sense of identity; we would lose the sense of time. Our perception of time depends on the awareness of processes in our bodies; without the heartbeat, breathing, etc, there would be no sense of time. Arguably, there would “be” no time in the absence of entropic physical change.

So we would not experience death as nonending sense deprivation; we’d simply slip into the pneumatikon soma!

ICXC NIKA!

 

[Qoeleth]

While if our “mind” (intellect and memory) survives the death of the head, we would not lose sense of identity; we would lose the sense of time. Our perception of time depends on the awareness of processes in our bodies; without the heartbeat, breathing, etc, there would be no sense of time. Arguably, there would “be” no time in the absence of entropic physical change.

So we would not experience death as nonending sense deprivation; we’d simply slip into the pneumatikon soma!

ICXC NIKA!

Now, if there is mind, there must be thought. Now, it seems as if thought is something linear with respect to time (i.e. a succession of ideas, images, etc.). Doesn’t thought, in a linear sense, require time?

Even if the mind perceived nothing sensory, not even the internal workings of a body, it would still perceive the changes in its own state of thought, and therefore perceive time.

Is this right?

 

[GEddie]

Now, if there is mind, there must be thought. Now, it seems as if thought is something linear with respect to time (i.e. a succession of ideas, images, etc.). Doesn’t thought, in a linear sense, require time?

Even if the mind perceived nothing sensory, not even the internal workings of a body, it would still perceive the changes in its own state of thought, and therefore perceive time.

Is this right?

Not really. Consider what goes on in dreaming, when mind is almost fully detached from awareness of the soma.

Although once you have awakened, you have some sense of the time that has passed (due to time-changes in your body), dream states are not perceived as temporally collinear.

ICXC NIKA

 

[judynurse]

I think our sense of “time” may be drastically different once we have left our bodies behind. There is little need of linear time in Eternity, since, although there may be “time” in a physical sense while on our earthly journey, there is no need for this in Eternity. I think we may be aware of time on Earth, while we ourselves have no need for time for ourselves, as we will then be outside of “time” as we know it here.

However, I believe our sense of “self” of “identity” and of memory will be intact. We will be complete as individuals, without the need for a body at that time, until we finally will receive an eternal “glorified” body after the end of “time” on Earth at the Last Judgment. How long is a day in Eternity? As long as Eternity, I suppose. I personally, think we will have some awareness of the time on Earth, that is, of some things which will occur on Earth, especially regarding any family or friends left behind, and of God’s workings on Earth as He fulfills His plans for mankind. I don’t think we will be aware of time in the same way as we are now – we won’t need clocks or watches! We will be aware of time in the sense of creation and the fulfillment and movements toward the fulfillment of God’s Plan. Since we won’t get tired, won’t feel grief and pain, and won’t need to sleep or eat, time will be irrelevant in the sense that we won’t need time, not that time will cease to exist.

 

[GEddie]

Since you wouldn’t be in collinear time, you wouldn’t be waiting for your soma!

ICXC NIKA!

 

[DCNBILL]

When I think on the location of my mind it seems to be located somewhat just in front of my face, this seems a bit strange since I have never thought about it before now.

 

[GEddie]

In front of your face? Not behind?

 

[DCNBILL]

In front of your face? Not behind?

Yea, it is a bit strange and hard to describe but it seems to be kind of pushing out in front of my face, like right where my eyesight begins and I only am aware of this when I concentrate on it.