Sensitive Relationship Issue

[Jiburi]

-Looking for constructive advice only

I’ll premise my personal/spiritual dilemma by saying that I’m only twenty years old and that like many people my age I have made some irreversible mistakes and am currently on a type of faith quest to find my place in God’s plan.

Now my situation is that I’m dating a “Catholic” man who is five years older than I am and we have some seemingly irreconcilable views on Catholic life. We have broken God’s ruling on premarital sex and I feel a constant urge in the back of my mind to repent for this, go to confession, and wait for marriage even though I’m not a confirmed Catholic. He somehow has this preconceived notion that sex is one of the pillars of a good marriage relationship and thinks that our relationship will suffer without it even though we’re currently going against Sacred Scripture. It seems that nothing I say can sway him from this; what should I do?

Now on that note, we’ve already discussed the issue of childbearing and have completely opposing views once again. I am only twenty years old as I stated and understand that time will change us as a couple and as people. I currently abhor the idea of children, but accept that God may change my heart as I grow older and wiser. The problem of course is that the man I’m dating absolutely wants children and feels the need to be the father that his father was. While he or I may change with time, is it wise to proceed with our plans of marriage while our current views are so far apart?

More importantly to me, could we ever be apart anyway now that we have become one flesh and as far as we are concerned consider ourselves already married since we have already consummated the would-be mariage…?

 

[Dtmccameron]

I’m only twenty years old and that like many people my age I have made some irreversible mistakes…

Yep.

…and am currently on a type of faith quest to find my place in God’s plan.

That sounds pretty neat. Tried the Spiritual Exercises or other, ah, “courses”?

We have broken God’s ruling on premarital sex and I feel a constant urge in the back of my mind to repent for this, go to confession…

The conscience springs, by the Grace of God alone, to the rescue!

and wait for marriage even though I’m not a confirmed Catholic.

Is that the sort of thing you’d be interested in? Receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation?

He somehow has this preconceived notion that sex is one of the pillars of a good marriage relationship

Well…okay…

and thinks that our relationship will suffer without it

The, um…not-married relationship? Is going to suffer for lack of that thing…hmm…

It seems that nothing I say can sway him from this; what should I do?

Ditch the $%#@&%.

I currently abhor the idea of children

Just the notion of having them yourself, right? Not anything cartoon villain-esque?

but accept that God may change my heart as I grow older and wiser.

Roundabouts then you might consider looking into this marriage-thing.

the man I’m dating…feels the need to be the father that his father was.

:bigyikes: Darlin’, your fella there’s got some issues.

While he or I may change with time, is it wise to proceed with our plans of marriage while our current views are so far apart?

I, um, I already voted against, but, um…No. It’s not wise to proceed.

More importantly to me, could we ever be apart anyway now that we have become one flesh

:ehh:

That, ahm…“Unitative” thing? Correct me if I’m wrong, but it only applies withing the bounds of the sacrament. The alternative being that folks dice themselves into increasingly smaller pieces as they give themselves away to their lovers.

Which I suppose rings true.

But no. Premarital sex is an offence against Love itself, HIMself. You are not one flesh. You, the both of you, are two separate abused fleshes.

…and as far as we are concerned consider ourselves already married…

You’re not.

…since we have already consummated the would-be mariage…?

You haven’t.

---

This man of yours, is he willing to repent? To abstain? How can he call himself Catholic if not?

Way I see it, your beau’s got daddy issues, too much pride to admit his faults, and no business thinking about matrimony.

And as for you! You know it’s wrong. You know you need to get to a confessional, and that the last bit of the Act of Contrition involves avoiding sin and near occasions of sin.

If you really do love this man, then you’ll want what’s best for him, namely, salvation and heaven. Now are you going to help him there? Or listen to whatever claptrap excuses he comes up with as justification to get his rocks off?

…apologies if any of that was less than constructive.

I direct you to this thread!
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=130235

 

[Sean_St_Jude]

-Looking for constructive advice only

I’ll premise my personal/spiritual dilemma by saying that I’m only twenty years old and that like many people my age I have made some irreversible mistakes and am currently on a type of faith quest to find my place in God’s plan.

Now my situation is that I’m dating a “Catholic” man who is five years older than I am and we have some seemingly irreconcilable views on Catholic life. We have broken God’s ruling on premarital sex and I feel a constant urge in the back of my mind to repent for this, go to confession, and wait for marriage even though I’m not a confirmed Catholic. He somehow has this preconceived notion that sex is one of the pillars of a good marriage relationship and thinks that our relationship will suffer without it even though we’re currently going against Sacred Scripture. It seems that nothing I say can sway him from this; what should I do?

Now on that note, we’ve already discussed the issue of childbearing and have completely opposing views once again. I am only twenty years old as I stated and understand that time will change us as a couple and as people. I currently abhor the idea of children, but accept that God may change my heart as I grow older and wiser. The problem of course is that the man I’m dating absolutely wants children and feels the need to be the father that his father was. While he or I may change with time, is it wise to proceed with our plans of marriage while our current views are so far apart?

More importantly to me, could we ever be apart anyway now that we have become one flesh and as far as we are concerned consider ourselves already married since we have already consummated the would-be mariage…?

Welcome to the forum.

Although you consider yourself already married since you “have already consummated this would-be-marriage”, you’re not married, so you haven’t done anything pertaining to the Sacrament. Instead, you have committed a mortal sin, and so has he.

If your more important concern is if you could ever be apart – and, yes, you can – that raises a red flag and tells me that you might be re-considering. I don’t think this man, as innocently as he might be doing it, should be talking about pre-marital sex being something your relationship will suffer without. He’s not speaking for the Catholic Church, that’s for sure.

RCIA is starting all around the country. You might want to join one of the classes so you can be confirmed in the spring. All my best to you both.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

You are experiencing the hardships that sin/wrong doings manifests .

Yes, there is a physical and spiritual bond people create when engaging in sex. Physically, the chemicals dopamine (rush, feel good) and seratonan (cuddly, long term feel good). Yes, stopping sex will stop these chemicals and create a physical withdrawal. This is why sudden break ups usually fail and you see couples yo-yo’ing. It’s very similar to giving up tabbaco, alcohol, & cocaine. Here you need to practice self control before you can free yourself of the physical bond.

Yes, a spiritual bond has taken place. He will have a greater need to protect and lead. You will have a greater spiritual desire to follow him. In Adam and Eve we learn that women will become more attached to the man as subordinate. Before you give submission to a man (in the form of sex) we hope you will have discovered what kind of man you are submitting to.

Your man seems like he’s still in formation. He has a wobbly foundation, but a heart that seeks good. You are already submitting to his wobbly foundation (wants religion, kids, leadership) but you are too broken to give him his desires.

Now, you don’t want kids ---- do you have a bad image of God? Do you have a poor image of yourself? Do you have selfish desires that blind you to others needs? These are issues you need to resolve within yourself before you take actions that might someday make you a mommy (ie sex). Since you are already physically & spiritually caught up in this bonding relationship you need time alone with God to let you discover yourself and THEN ask to share this discovery with your partner.

I too had a few bonds with men that I did not take vows with. The separation was like cutting off my own arm. I remember the story of a man who was hiking and had to cut off his arm to make it home. At that time, I was separating from an unblessed bonding. I guess my numbness was so strong, my thought for this man was, “no big deal, us girls have to do this every breakup” … Since then, I’ve listened to God through scripture, authors (Christopher West ), and in silence in adoration.

Stopping what God says will hurt us has allowed me to be recreated. I feelforyour situation. Although it’s not perfect, if you and this man could find ways to listen to Godtogether, maybe you won’t have to cut off that spiritual and physical arm.

 

[1newcatholic]

-Looking for constructive advice only

I’ll premise my personal/spiritual dilemma by saying that I’m only twenty years old and that like many people my age I have made some irreversible mistakes and am currently on a type of faith quest to find my place in God’s plan.

Now my situation is that I’m dating a “Catholic” man who is five years older than I am and we have some seemingly irreconcilable views on Catholic life. We have broken God’s ruling on premarital sex and I feel a constant urge in the back of my mind to repent for this, go to confession, and wait for marriage even though I’m not a confirmed Catholic. He somehow has this preconceived notion that sex is one of the pillars of a good marriage relationship and thinks that our relationship will suffer without it even though we’re currently going against Sacred Scripture. It seems that nothing I say can sway him from this; what should I do?

Now on that note, we’ve already discussed the issue of childbearing and have completely opposing views once again. I am only twenty years old as I stated and understand that time will change us as a couple and as people. I currently abhor the idea of children, but accept that God may change my heart as I grow older and wiser. The problem of course is that the man I’m dating absolutely wants children and feels the need to be the father that his father was. While he or I may change with time, is it wise to proceed with our plans of marriage while our current views are so far apart?

More importantly to me, could we ever be apart anyway now that we have become one flesh and as far as we are concerned consider ourselves already married since we have already consummated the would-be mariage…?

It sounds like the guy you’re seeing is conflicted. Church teaching is very clear about premarital sex and about procreation inside of marriage. From what you’ve described, it sounds like your boyfriend is willing to disregard rules which inconvenience him, but is willing to enforce rules that more-directly impact you. He sounds like a self-centered individual, and you might need to take a step back and ask yourself what kind of behaviors you can expect from him in the future. That being said, he sounds like a fairly typical 25-year-old male: shortsighted, impulsive, and self-justifying.

Your sexual union is not eternally binding, because it did not take place inside the context of marriage. Don’t compound your errors by eternally committing to someone just because you sinned together.

 

[Viki63]

Your sexual union is not eternally binding, because it did not take place inside the context of marriage. Don’t compound your errors by eternally committing to someone just because you sinned together.

Yes, this is true.
You are only 20, very young yet. Please don’t go any farther with this mistake – premarital sex. It blinds you to his faults, and binds you to him emotionally, as others have said.
Sex results in children. Despite birth control, despite dislike for children, that’s what it’s for. If you don’t want children, stop having sex.
You may feel different later on, Keep in mind, it’s a sin to marry if you are not open to children, because marriage is for the children.
If he wants children and you don’t, you should not consider marriage, at least until you are older and have more experience of the world.
It’s never too late to take a courageous stand for yourself and what you know in your heart is right.

 

[1ke]

-irreconcilable views on Catholic life.

Please find someone with whom you share your vision for living a holy life, not someone you are constantly fighting on this matter.

• We have broken God’s ruling on premarital sex and I feel a constant urge in the back of my mind to repent for this, go to confession, and wait for marriage even though I’m not a confirmed Catholic.

Go to confession and begin anew living chastely. You are correct in what God desires from us. If you are not confirmed, talk to your pastor about confirmation.

-He somehow has this preconceived notion that sex is one of the pillars of a good marriage relationship and thinks that our relationship will suffer without it even though we’re currently going against Sacred Scripture.

You aren’t going to change him. He must grow in his faith to the point he sees that this is wrong. That may never happen.

He is using you.

• It seems that nothing I say can sway him from this; what should I do?

Walk away older and wiser and determined to find a chaste man who will love and respect you as you are.

-Now on that note, we’ve already discussed the issue of childbearing and have completely opposing views once again.

Sound as if you are not ready for marriage at this point in your life anyway. yet another reason to walk away from this relationship that is harming your relationship with God. Get some counseling for your “abhorrence” of children, get to the bottom of that and get healthy.

-, is it wise to proceed with our plans of marriage while our current views are so far apart?

It’s not wise to proceed with marriage at all as you both disagree on fundamental aspects of faith and married life.

M

-ore importantly to me, could we ever be apart anyway now that we have become one flesh and as far as we are concerned consider ourselves already married since we have already consummated the would-be mariage…?

This is a lie you are telling yourself. You are not one flesh. You have not consummated anything. You have fornicated, a grave sin against God.

Please don’t confuse the two.

I know you believe you love this man, but he is not good for you and is manipulating you. Get some distance and some perspective. Stop having sex.

Talk to your pastor.

 

[KatieM2]

We have broken God’s ruling on premarital sex and I feel a constant urge in the back of my mind to repent for this, go to confession, and wait for marriage even though I’m not a confirmed Catholic. He somehow has this preconceived notion that sex is one of the pillars of a good marriage relationship and thinks that our relationship will suffer without it even though we’re currently going against Sacred Scripture. It seems that nothing I say can sway him from this; what should I do?

Now on that note, we’ve already discussed the issue of childbearing and have completely opposing views once again. I am only twenty years old as I stated and understand that time will change us as a couple and as people. I currently abhor the idea of children, but accept that God may change my heart as I grow older and wiser. The problem of course is that the man I’m dating absolutely wants children and feels the need to be the father that his father was.

Your potential husband is right that sex is a pillar of a good marriage. However, that is no reason to have sex while unmarried; on the contrary, it’s an argument for abstaining until wed. So your instinct to repent and remain chaste is clearly the way to go.

He’s right again that bringing children into the world is the principal aim of marriage. As Catholics we should reject contraception and hence should expect that pregnancy will follow marrying as day follows night. If you don’t want children, or rather don’t feel ready for them, then you’re not yet ready for marriage.

I don’t mean to criticize or offend but it seems to me that neither of you understands the sacrament of marriage, which is sad, but points to the idea that you probably should not date with a view to becoming betrothed.

 

[Jiburi]

Thank you all so much for the help. I suppose I should have expanded a little more on what I meant by not being confirmed. I didn’t grow up strictly in the Catholic Church and I don’t feel comfortable being confirmed. Nor do I have any idea what Spiritual Exercises, “courses”, or Acts of Contrition are. When I attended RCIA classes a year ago it didn’t go into enough depth for me to feel comfortabe being confirmed, and made me feel like getting confirmed would be like lying to God. That may sound strange, but my priest understood and told me not to be confirmed if I didn’t feel ready because that would lead to my falling away from church later.

I both disdain the notion of having them myself, and being around them in general. Note that only applying to babies however. Older children aren’t a problem, just for some reason little babies give me the creeps. I’m not sure why, just since my first little toddler memories I was afraid of babies and was very anti-social with other toddlers my age and my intolerance for that age range never wore off. Nothing cartoon villain! I just feel called to adopt older children if anything, particularly those past the normal adoption ages or having issues. My main Spiritual Gift is mercy and I feel called to help that particular group instead of very small children. According to what I’ve heard here it is wrong for me to feel this way because marriage is meant only for having your own children. Is that correct? Do I then have to be married to adopt? And one more thing: is adoption only for couples that can’t have children?

On your collective suggestions that I at the very least spend some time away from him getting back to God; you’ve inspired me to go talk to a priest so I’ve made an appointment for spiritual guidance. Thank you so much for helping me to get on the right path.

 

[Dtmccameron]

I didn’t grow up strictly in the Catholic Church and I don’t feel comfortable being confirmed.

Hmm…I suppose it’s well that you didn’t take on a thing that you weren’t prepared for.

Nor do I have any idea what Spiritual Exercises,

newadvent.org/cathen/14224b.htm
ignatianspirituality.com/ignatian-prayer/the-spiritual-exercises/

or Acts of Contrition are

catholic.com/tracts/confession

catholic.com/quickquestions/how-do-i-make-an-act-of-contrition

ewtn.com/library/YOUTH/CONFESS.TXT

ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/GUIDEPEN.HTM

but my priest understood and told me not to be confirmed if I didn’t feel ready because that would lead to my falling away from church later.

It’s pretty common for folks to view the Sacrament as a “graduation” and then stop pursuing their faith and education in it.

I both disdain the notion of having them myself, and being around them in general…Nothing cartoon villain!

If you say so!

I just feel called to adopt older children if anything, particularly those past the normal adoption ages or having issues.

Well that’s a different matter entirely. Quite noble, that.

If you’re up for it.

According to what I’ve heard here it is wrong for me to feel this way because marriage is meant only for having your own children. Is that correct?

No.

Do I then have to be married to adopt?

Eh…It’d be easier, at least.

And one more thing: is adoption only for couples that can’t have children?

Not at all.

…you’ve inspired me to go talk to a priest so I’ve made an appointment for spiritual guidance. Thank you so much for helping me to get on the right path.

Hey! Great!

When you do see your fellow again, you might recommend him along a similar course, as he’s some, ah, *misconceptions *about living out his faith.

 

[LongingSoul]

On your collective suggestions that I at the very least spend some time away from him getting back to God; you’ve inspired me to go talk to a priest so I’ve made an appointment for spiritual guidance. Thank you so much for helping me to get on the right path.

Some young people amaze me with their maturity! Good for you listening to your soul for truth in a world that is screaming listen to the flesh.

 

[maryjk]

-Now my situation is that I’m dating a “Catholic” man who is five years older than I am and we have some seemingly irreconcilable views on Catholic life. We have broken God’s ruling on premarital sex and I feel a constant urge in the back of my mind to repent for this, go to confession, and wait for marriage even though I’m not a confirmed Catholic. **He somehow has this preconceived notion that sex is one of the pillars of a good marriage relationship and thinks that our relationship will suffer without it even though we’re currently going against Sacred Scripture. **It seems that nothing I say can sway him from this; what should I do?

Interesting. That is a new one.

Normally the guys says, “since we are already in sin, nothing will change if we stop.” Or, “you can’t change your mind now.” Or, “But I looooove YOU.”

Its all the same. He has been enjoying benefits of marriage, without the wedding. And he doesn’t want it to stop.

You on the other hand seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Go with your gut. And ditch him.

 

[LongingSoul]

Interesting. That is a new one.

Normally the guys says, “since we are already in sin, nothing will change if we stop.” Or, “you can’t change your mind now.” Or, “But I looooove YOU.”

Its all the same. He has been enjoying benefits of marriage, without the wedding. And he doesn’t want it to stop.

You on the other hand seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Go with your gut. And ditch him.

You’re right. The angle he is taking suggests a manipulative streak. That’s bad news.

 

[thewanderer]

Thank you all so much for the help. I suppose I should have expanded a little more on what I meant by not being confirmed. I didn’t grow up strictly in the Catholic Church and I don’t feel comfortable being confirmed. Nor do I have any idea what Spiritual Exercises, “courses”, or Acts of Contrition are. When I attended RCIA classes a year ago it didn’t go into enough depth for me to feel comfortabe being confirmed, and made me feel like getting confirmed would be like lying to God. That may sound strange, but my priest understood and told me not to be confirmed if I didn’t feel ready because that would lead to my falling away from church later.

If you don’t feel ready to be confirmed, then by all means wait on it, but I do want to make sure you realize that confirmation is not something that needs to be delayed until you fully understand the Catholic faith. It is a Sacrament, and, as such, it confers Grace on those who receive it. It is not just some graduation ceremony for now knowing all of the Churches teachings.

I both disdain the notion of having them myself, and being around them in general. Note that only applying to babies however. Older children aren’t a problem, just for some reason little babies give me the creeps. I’m not sure why, just since my first little toddler memories I was afraid of babies and was very anti-social with other toddlers my age and my intolerance for that age range never wore off. Nothing cartoon villain! I just feel called to adopt older children if anything, particularly those past the normal adoption ages or having issues. My main Spiritual Gift is mercy and I feel called to help that particular group instead of very small children.

I think thats fantastic! So many kids desperately need a good and loving home and you can make such a difference in their lives through adoption.

According to what I’ve heard here it is wrong for me to feel this way because marriage is meant only for having your own children. Is that correct?

Well… not quite. A permanent impediment against children will invalidate a marriage attempt, but the purpose of marriage is not just to have your own kids. There’s a heck of a lot more to it than that. If you want to find out if your attitude qualifies as a permanent impediment against children you should try to find someone who is better versed in exactly what qualifies, maybe try and speak with the people who decide annulment cases to better determine exactly where you stand there. I mean, we could debate all day online about whether you do or don’t, but none of us are truly qualified to answer that question.

Do I then have to be married to adopt? And one more thing: is adoption only for couples that can’t have children?

no and no. While a stable two parent household is generally better than a single parent household, having a stable and loving one-parent household is waaaay better than an unstable situation in foster care.

On your collective suggestions that I at the very least spend some time away from him getting back to God; you’ve inspired me to go talk to a priest so I’ve made an appointment for spiritual guidance. Thank you so much for helping me to get on the right path.

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

You have given several issues that separate the two of you,
What are the things that bring you together ?
You are only 20 , you don’t need to go down this road that you are on,
Sex is not everything,it’s great while it lasts,but after several years and a couple of ankle biters,it goes off the boil, Set yourself a high standard,then stick with it,