Separation of Church and State?

[switalabe]

Hi,

If the Church and State are to be separate, and if no salvation is outside the Church, does this mean the State is going to hell?

Hopefully this question meshes well with the article posted on the front page of CA today. in fact I might be able to find the answer in that article.

The proximate cause of my question is a discussion about separation of Church and State that I was having with my aunt.

I was going to tell her that the idea of separation of church and state originated from Jesus (“pay unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar and what belongs to God to God”) and St. Augustine but now that I think about, maybe this just serves to get the State to hell quicker. On top of that the gist I got from reading, reading about, and thinking about the Book of Revelation is kind of dour in terms of the long-term longevity of the State.

Please, could you offer your insights & response?

Thanks,
Ben

 

[Justin61790]

The “State” is a governmental construct so I’m not sure how it could go to Hell.

The teaching “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” pertains to people. That isn’t to say that a “State” that adheres to the teachings of Christ and His Church won’t be blessed with prosperity or that it’s people won’t benefit from that adherence. The people of a State that adheres to His Word may be more likely to know His teachings and adhere to those teachings. Which probably gives them a better chance of getting into Heaven.

 

[v21337304]

Any state in the world is made up of politicians. It is they that have the responsibility of enacting laws that are in line with God’s will, since everyone must in the end give an account for their actions. I would not judge anyone who must decide what laws to pass. That belongs to God only.

Having said that, the more the state and its representatives depart from God’s commandments, the more they abuse of God’s mercy. Judgement comes to all. In the end everyone can be saved if they repent. Jesus made it clear that all sins can be forgiven except those against the Holy Spirit.

 

[BackHand]

As Justin61790 said the state is not a person so it can’t go to hell. Religion and the state while they sometimes overlap, in terms of policy and belief, should be fundamentally separate. The state should not make it illegal to miss mass, or to criticize religion, etc.

 

[edwest2]

Hi,

If the Church and State are to be separate, and if no salvation is outside the Church, does this mean the State is going to hell?

Hopefully this question meshes well with the article posted on the front page of CA today. in fact I might be able to find the answer in that article.

The proximate cause of my question is a discussion about separation of Church and State that I was having with my aunt.

I was going to tell her that the idea of separation of church and state originated from Jesus (“pay unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar and what belongs to God to God”) and St. Augustine but now that I think about, maybe this just serves to get the State to hell quicker. On top of that the gist I got from reading, reading about, and thinking about the Book of Revelation is kind of dour in terms of the long-term longevity of the State.

Please, could you offer your insights & response?

Thanks,
Ben

The Separation of Church and State is a fiction. From the First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”

Unlike Britain which had a State religion, the original 13 Colonies wanted no State religion, but recognized that among the various religious groups, the ability to freely exercise their religious beliefs, including in the public square, was their right.

This separation idea is often used to promote the idea that the US Federal government, for example, is a Secular (nonreligious or a-religious) Government when nothing could be further from the truth. The US House of Representatives opens each day/session with a prayer:

chaplain.house.gov/archive/

Best,
Ed

 

[Shin]

‘That the State must be separated from the Church is a thesis absolutely false, a most pernicious error. Based, as it is, on the principle that the State must not recognize any religious cult, it is in the first place guilty of a great injustice to God; for the Creator of man is also the Founder of human societies, and preserves their existence as He preserves our own. We owe Him, therefore, not only a private cult, but a public and social worship to honor Him. Besides, this thesis is an obvious negation of the supernatural order. It limits the action of the State to the pursuit of public prosperity during this life only, which is but the proximate object of political societies; and it occupies itself in no fashion (on the plea that this is foreign to it) with their ultimate object which is man’s eternal happiness after this short life shall have run its course. But as the present order of things is temporary and subordinated to the conquest of man’s supreme and absolute welfare, it follows that the civil power must not only place no obstacle in the way of this conquest, but must aid us in effecting it. The same thesis also upsets the order providentially established by God in the world, which demands a harmonious agreement between the two societies. Both of them, the civil and the religious society, although each exercises in its own sphere its authority over them. It follows necessarily that there are many things belonging to them in common in which both societies must have relations with one another. Remove the agreement between Church and State, and the result will be that from these common matters will spring the seeds of disputes which will become acute on both sides; it will become more difficult to see where the truth lies, and great confusion is certain to arise. Finally, this thesis inflicts great injury on society itself, for it cannot either prosper or last long when due place is not left for religion, which is the supreme rule and the sovereign mistress in all questions touching the rights and the duties of men. Hence the Roman Pontiffs have never ceased, as circumstances required, to refute and condemn the doctrine of the separation of Church and State.’

Pope St. Pius X, ‘Vehementor Nos’

 

[TimothyH]

The Separation of Church and State is a fiction. From the First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”

Unlike Britain which had a State religion, the original 13 Colonies wanted no State religion, but recognized that among the various religious groups, the ability to freely exercise their religious beliefs, including in the public square, was their right.

This separation idea is often used to promote the idea that the US Federal government, for example, is a Secular (nonreligious or a-religious) Government when nothing could be further from the truth. The US House of Representatives opens each day/session with a prayer:

chaplain.house.gov/archive/

Best,
Ed

Ed is 100% correct.

There is no such thing as “Separation of Church and state” as it is understood today. The supreme court of the United States made it up based on an out of context passage from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson.

The only thing that is clear is that Congress shall make no law about religion. That is in the US constitution and it applies only to the United States of America.

Faith should enlighten every part of our lives. This is true for all mankind. Matters of faith and morals, when impacted by secular law, should yield to the light of faith.

-Tim-

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Any state in the world is made up of politicians.

The state is the people, not the politicians. If the people are Christian, they will elect those who will respect Christian values. Voting for corrupt politicians, those who support abortion, etc. is sad proof of moral decline in society.

 

[onenow1]

Ed is 100% correct.

There is no such thing as “Separation of Church and state” as it is understood today. The supreme court of the United States made it up based on an out of context passage from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson.

The only thing that is clear is that Congress shall make no law about religion. That is in the US constitution and it applies only to the United States of America.

Faith should enlighten every part of our lives. This is true for all mankind. Matters of faith and morals, when impacted by secular law, should yield to the light of faith.

-Tim-

We folks make up the state, any plan to separate is bogus; as if the state is an entity of its own making.

God Bless

 

[Ignatius]

If the Church and State are to be separate, and if no salvation is outside the Church, does this mean the State is going to hell?

The state is an entity created for the purposes of civil organization. Only persons can merit heaven or hell.

 

[mikekle]

The state is an entity created for the purposes of civil organization. Only persons can merit heaven or hell.

The ‘state’ is made up from people though…thats what the Govt is, its people, I would definitely not want to be a lawmaker in todays world standing before God on judgement day though!!!

 

[Shin]

That reminds me of a quote…

‘The wicked shall be turned into hell, all the nations that forget God.’

Psalms 9:18

 

[Ignatius]

The ‘state’ is made up from people though…thats what the Govt is, its people

A Govt can’t go to hell. The government is an entity created for the purposes of civil organization. It is Not a person.