Seperation of churh and state

[valentino]

We hear much talk about separation of church and state today.Could this lead to the elimination of the Church altogether?

 

[Redratfish]

We hear much talk about separation of church and state today.Could this lead to the elimination of the Church altogether?

Depends what you mean by elimination. If you mean where morality has no fuction, and we are a secular wasteland with no morals, then yes. Although not likely (due to the term originally being used to protect religion). It will never destroy the Church itself though

 

[Scoobyshme]

We hear much talk about separation of church and state today.Could this lead to the elimination of the Church altogether?

If unchecked, it will lead to persecution of the Church just like the Nazi’s persecuted the Jews in the last century. We will be illegal and hunted down like dogs. We will be given the opportunity to become holy martyrs!

 

[karebear92]

I don’t think so. If it did, it would be breaking the very foundation America was founded upon (if you mean the government restricts our religion). If you mean will it be possible to remain in the Church in a completely secular society, I believe that it would be harder to remain faithful, as the morality of society would diminish even more so than today, but I do not think that the first Amendment will ever be changed or broken, at least not while the U.S. is under U.S. control.

 

[puzzleannie]

We hear much talk about separation of church and state today.Could this lead to the elimination of the Church altogether?

as enshrined in US constitutional and case law so far it has been the saving of the Catholic Church, and without the concept majority mainstream Protestant religions could have taken over schools and governments completely. Once the state is given the authority to rule on religious matters freedom of the minority faiths is at the mercy of the state religion.

 

[Rence]

We hear much talk about separation of church and state today.Could this lead to the elimination of the Church altogether?

No. The separation of Church and State gives civilians the right to choose and practice the religion of their choice, or none at all. And it assures that there will be no State religion, and that there will be no State religion to be enforced on civilians. We have the right to choose our religion and follow that religion as long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others. One’s rights end where another person’s rights begin. That’s not a danger to any person’s choice in religion and in following that religion.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Institutional separation of Church and State serves to protect the Church from the State as much as anything else. It means the State cannot tell the Church what to do, except of course in purely civil matters.

Forced secularization, forcing religious organizations to violate their consciences on things like abortion, contraception, or homosexuality, discouraging public prayer, etc. are therefore violations of authentic separation of Church and State. They mean the State is getting involved in the inner matters of the Church. In this sense I think we need more separation of Church and State in the United States and I think most Western countries, not less.

On the other hand, this institutional separation does not mean a moral or ideological separation. It does not mean political leaders cannot or should not make decisions based on authentic revealed truths, or even naturally knowable truths that are confirmed by Church teaching. This moral/ideological separation of Church and State is an aberration and should be avoided.

 

[valentino]

Depends what you mean by elimination. If you mean where morality has no fuction, and we are a secular wasteland with no morals, then yes. Although not likely (due to the term originally being used to protect religion). It will never destroy the Church itself though

we know how secular how society has become.Homosexuality is ok,ect.Is it possible that our society will see the Church as a complete nusiance getting in the way and eventually want to get rid of it all together?

 

[valentino]

If unchecked, it will lead to persecution of the Church just like the Nazi’s persecuted the Jews in the last century. We will be illegal and hunted down like dogs. We will be given the opportunity to become holy martyrs!

I believe this is a possibility.I don’t know how long it will take to get to that point but we seem to be headed in that direction.

 

[Elizium23]

It is foreseeable that the Church will be legislated out of existence in our country. Pro-life is seen as threatening “a woman’s right to choose” and our teaching on homosexuality is categorized as “hate speech”. Our efforts to adopt children in new loving homes are abandoned due to the breakdown of marriage laws. Soon it will be illegal for a bishop or faithful Catholic to express his beliefs and we will be forced underground.

 

[Krakatoa]

Actually, ‘separation of church and state’ is not in the Constitution at all. That phrase comes from an 1802 letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to a group of Baptist ministers in Danbury, CT. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” is all the First Amendment says about religion. It simply forbids the federal government from establishing a national religion, and from prohibiting the free exercise of religion by the people.

 

[jsaldar]

We hear much talk about separation of church and state today.Could this lead to the elimination of the Church altogether?

Definately no doubt about it. We already see a major decline in religion. Separation of church and state brings about laws that are contrary to major religions (abortion, gay marriage, promiscuity ect…) All the state wants is a profit out of anything hence, abortion=profit, gay marriage = profit, promiscuity= profit.

These laws therefore corrupt society and this diminishes religion to the point of complete decay.People abiding by the rules would be the norm.

 

[edwest2]

I suggest everyone get a copy of Render unto Caesar by Charles J. Chaput, Archbishop of Denver. He covers this topic quite well.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Robert_Sock]

We hear much talk about separation of church and state today.Could this lead to the elimination of the Church altogether?

We need separation of Church and State otherwise the Church will become polluted with secularism. The Vatican is a nation, and I doubt that she would allow anything other than separation of Church and State.

Trust that God has everything under control! The Church will never fall! The Church is a treasure waiting to be discovered!

 

[copperblade]

We hear much talk about separation of church and state today.Could this lead to the elimination of the Church altogether?

On the contrary, I think it strengthens the Church.

 

[bhall0689]

Institutional separation of Church and State serves to protect the Church from the State as much as anything else. It means the State cannot tell the Church what to do, except of course in purely civil matters.

Forced secularization, forcing religious organizations to violate their consciences on things like abortion, contraception, or homosexuality, discouraging public prayer, etc. are therefore violations of authentic separation of Church and State. They mean the State is getting involved in the inner matters of the Church. In this sense I think we need more separation of Church and State in the United States and I think most Western countries, not less.

On the other hand, this institutional separation does not mean a moral or ideological separation. It does not mean political leaders cannot or should not make decisions based on authentic revealed truths, or even naturally knowable truths that are confirmed by Church teaching. This moral/ideological separation of Church and State is an aberration and should be avoided.

Nobody’s forcing anybody to use contraception, practice homosexuality, or have an abortion. Christians can choose or not choose to utilize these practices. Likewise, the State seeks to protect the rights of those non-Christians to have an abortion, use contraception, or practice homosexuality, if they so choose. It’s a matter of individual morality, not state-mandated morality. What if you, as a Christian, lived in a country dominated by a fanatic, heretical, cultish State, ala North Korea? God bless the USA!

 

[valentino]

On the contrary, I think it strengthens the Church.

But the CC isn’t growing in the US so how is it strenghtened?Does this country look to the Church or even take it into consideration when passing laws?are you saying the CC is getting more rigid in Her beliefs?

 

[copperblade]

But the CC isn’t growing in the US so how is it strenghtened?Does this country look to the Church or even take it into consideration when passing laws?are you saying the CC is getting more rigid in Her beliefs?

It strengthens the Church by allowing the Church to thrive independently. I think the separation of church and state is one of the reasons why the US is more religious than Europe.

 

[jochoa]

It strengthens the Church by allowing the Church to thrive independently. I think the separation of church and state is one of the reasons why the US is more religious than Europe.

Excellent thoughts Copperblade!

But the CC isn’t growing in the US so how is it strenghtened?Does this country look to the Church or even take it into consideration when passing laws?are you saying the CC is getting more rigid in Her beliefs?

I would say keep in mind the following passage:
Ecclesiastes 4:6 King James Version
Better is an handful with quietness, than both the hands full with travail and vexation of spirit.

I would also like to add: Though it is unfortunate that some want to plagiarize some of God’s concepts*, the leaders of the government are doing an excellent job given the huge amounts of selfishness placed on their shoulders and in their minds.

*Some of the concepts I refer to are:
Freedom somewhat aligns with Free Will.
Clearly stating Laws somewhat aligns with Commandments.
Rejecting lawbreakers participation in the “Free” Society somewhat aligns with the rules governing Godly Punishment - CCC #1472
Lifting death penalty aligns with the non-violent punishment aspect
Right to Trial somewhat aligns with the Determination of Sin or deliberate Disobedience
Rehabilitation of the “Insane” somewhat aligns with Purgatory
Democracy somewhat aligns with Consideration and Compassion of Opposing Perspectives
Separation of the Church and State greatly aligns with quite a few factors:

1. Elimination of Hypocrisy as far as religion is concerned - James 4:11-12 ESV, where the law refers to God’s Law. Also, unfortunately no politician completely understands and perfectly practices God’s Law.
2. God’s Church should not want to be a part of the State, rather the State should want to be a part of God’s Church.

Thanks for the thought-provoking question!

 

[AmericanMuslim]

we know how secular how society has become.Homosexuality is ok,ect.Is it possible that our society will see the Church as a complete nusiance getting in the way and eventually want to get rid of it all together?

I doubt that we will see legislation outlawing religion any time soon.

A greater threat would be removing the tax exemption for religious groups. There is nothing in the constitution that says a Church cannot be taxed. I don’t think it’s imminent by any means, but it would mean more revenue for government at all levels…