Septuagint v. Hebrew

[colliric]

The following website has a list of the major Church pronouncements on the Bible:

catholicapologetics.org/ap031100.htm

Note that at the Church Councils of Rome in AD 382, of Hippo in AD 393, of Carthage in AD 397, of Carthage in AD 419, of Florence in AD 1441, and of Trent in AD 1545 the Church consistently listed the OT (with the 7 deuterocanonical books) and NT books that Catholics have in their Bibles today.

You can find the documents online from the Council of Carthage AD 419, the Council of Florence, and the Council of Trent. What I noticed: These three councils have canons which include the 27 NT books we now have in our Bibles (both Catholics and Protestants). Regarding the OT canons in these councils, the Council of Carthage has 44 OT books (Baruch and Lamentations is missing). Florence and Trent have 45 OT books (Lamentations is missing). Catholic Bibles today have 46 OT books. The books of Lamentations and Baruch were included at times in the book of Jeremiah, so this explains why they were not listed in the Church Council documents. Anyway, there is clear evidence that the Church has accepted the 7 deutercanonical books as “inspired” since at least the 4th century.

When Luther wrote his translation of the Bible, he removed the 7 deuterocanonical books from the OT canon and placed them in an appendix. In spite of Luther’s motives, which may have been genuine, he was still breaking with hundreds of years of Church tradition by rejecting these books. By making this unprecedented change in the canon of Scripture, Luther, who himself rejected papal authority, took on more authority than any Pope had previously.

I challenge anyone to:

1. Show me any Catholic Church Council documents after the 4th century up to the time of the Council of Trent (when the canon was officially closed by the Catholic Church) that exclude the 7 deuterocanonical books.
2. Show me a Bible from the time before the reformation (AD 1513) that excludes the 7 deutercanonical books from the OT canon. The Gutenberg Bible from AD 1455 is available online, and it contains these 7 books in its OT canon.

hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/permanent/gutenberg/web/pgstns/01.html

It is a commonly believed myth that Catholics added the 7 “apocryphal” books to the canon of Scripture at the Council of Trent. There is no evidence that I have found to support this myth. In fact, all evidence points to the fact that Luther removed these books and put them in an appendix. Most Protestant Bibles today do not contain these books even in an appendix. Who dispensed with historical Christianity? It wasn’t the Catholics.

Unfortunatly I think this myth came about because of two things. Luther’s declaring of them being not canon(which raises the question of if they were ever canon to unknowing protestants), and the usage of the term Deuterocanon which seems to imply they were not originally in the bible’s protocanonitical books. Luther propagating they were only “later on declared canon”(deuterocanon) is what has fed the myth that they wern’t in the bible till the 15th century, despite his comments making complete sense to those who are in the know.

 

[arvgreen]

Try these 2 sites: cin.org/users/james/files/deutero3.htm

mysite.verizon.net/rgjones3/Septuagint/spindex.htm

anthony

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Genesis is Greek, it means origins. When the book was copied it was given this title. I think Exodus is Latin, but I could be wrong on that one.

Yes, Genesis is Greek.
and … Exodus…

Exodus is also Greek; It is actually a compond word Ex (out) - hodos (road/way);
Literally, from the Greek, Exodus means “[a/the] way out.”
As in, a way out of slavery – or the road to freedom…!

In the NT, Jesus speaks of the road toward the crucifixion as an ex`odos as well.

Joseph, are you an ordained deacon?

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I think the Septuagint was around before the Hebrew OT. Didn’t the Hebrew OT (the non-Septuagint OT) come about around 70 AD or after?

The Septuagint was around before the copies of the Hebrew we have today;
The Massoretic texts are all compilations from times long after Jesus’ death and of-course, they have been in the hands of people not fond of Christians…

I am not aware of any Hebrew which can be dated to the year 400AD or earlier besides the Dead sea Scrolls, and those are very incomplete. So, theorietically – although the originating language of much of the old testament is Hebrew; pragmatically the Greek we have access to is simply older historically than any Hebrew one can obtain.