Serious question: Creation story

[hockie_pokie]

Before I ask this question I was brought up Catholic but I don’t agree with the running Catholic Church, However, I do have strong belief in Jesus, God etc.
Serious question (This question will probably be blocked.)

Any in the Old Testament (even though it’s a myth);

In the creation story , God forbid adam and eve from eating an apple from tree.
From my understanding from the bible the tree is the tree of knowledge;
And then the snake (devil) tempts them into eating the apple.

This is the part that is confusing me ; please don’t call a devil worshipper or stuff like that.

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

                     Luke 6 : 37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

 

[The_Wizard]

It was the tree of knowledge OF GOOD AND EVIL! I think the world would be a much better place with that bit of knowledge suppressed.

 

[thistle]

Before I ask this question I was brought up Catholic but I don’t agree with the running Catholic Church, However, I do have strong belief in Jesus, God etc.
Serious question (This question will probably be blocked.)

Any in the Old Testament (even though it’s a myth);

In the creation story , God forbid adam and eve from eating an apple from tree.
From my understanding from the bible the tree is the tree of knowledge;
And then the snake (devil) tempts them into eating the apple.

This is the part that is confusing me ; please don’t call a devil worshipper or stuff like that.

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

                     Luke 6 : 37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

What is a myth is that Adam and Eve ate an apple. There is no mention of an apple in Scripture.

 

[Publisher]

Before I ask this question I was brought up Catholic but I don’t agree with the running Catholic Church, However, I do have strong belief in Jesus, God etc.
Serious question (This question will probably be blocked.)

Any in the Old Testament (even though it’s a myth);

In the creation story , God forbid adam and eve from eating an apple from tree.
From my understanding from the bible the tree is the tree of knowledge;
And then the snake (devil) tempts them into eating the apple.

This is the part that is confusing me ; please don’t call a devil worshipper or stuff like that.

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

                     Luke 6 : 37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

You yourself provided an “answer”…it’s “myth”…the story wasn’t trying to relay events that occured which happended to include a mystic tree with a magical fruit that was forbidden…it was seeking to relay that “somehow”…in “some way”…humanities relationship with the Eternal was broken…it was a “just so” type of story…why was there suffering in child birth…why did man have to toil and scratch his existence from the earth.

There was no “talking snake”…“somehow”…a breech occured in our relationship with God and this breech causes pain and destruction in our world.

In some other ancient myths not included in our volume of scripture…the snake is the hero…especially in the Gnostic/Mystical traditions…the serpent is the agent of the Good God who sent him to free those spirtual beings trapped in mortality…the “fruit” …the “knowledge” tha they were “trapped” was to open their eyes…the Creator sought to entrap spiritual beings in matter…but the Good Most High God sent the Serpent of Wisdom…Serpent of Knowledge to “free” those who had been entrapped and it failed…so other means…which eventually included the story of Jesus of Nazareth…both the “orthodox” and “Gnostic/hertics” versions seek to understand the “myths” and relay them in their own way…the goal is to free bound humanity…Truth can be found in either version if we look for it.

In the mystic/esotericist mind…the “orthodox” “confuse” the “finger pointing toward the moon as the moon itself”…the stories are attempts at relaying “Truth”…the problem occurs when we confuse the “story” with the “Subject of the story”…claiming the method of relaying Truth is the truth…instead of the means to relay it.

Hope that makes some sense.

 

[sambos671]

What do you mean you don’t believe in the running Catholic Church?

As far as the creation story goes. The fruit of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil is not an apple. We don’t know what it was. In Jewish tradition some think it was a grape. But again that isn’t important to your question. The consept from my perspective is that Adam and Eve were living in the graces of God and already experiencing all things good as the ultimate good is God himself who would at that time come in the cool of the day and spend it with man.
The issue is the lie when the Devil said…“you will become like God knowing good and evil.” The fact was that by disobeying God and eating from the tree which in essense would corrupt their inocense by introducing evil to them man became in bondage to that evil. We didn’t become like God knowing evil after having all good. We became enslaved to it which causes seperation from God and death. So it wasn’t a “civil rights” issue but between true freedom of choice or subjection and enslavement to evil. God wanted to save us from this state but in our freedom to choose we chose pride (to be like God without a need for God) rather than accept a closer more loving relationship with God.

 

[loozcannon]

Any in the Old Testament (even though it’s a myth);

IMHO you cannot be a Christian if you consider any book in the Bible a myth. The Bible is the Word of God; all or nothing.

In the creation story , God forbid adam and eve from eating an apple from tree.
From my understanding from the bible the tree is the tree of knowledge;
And then the snake (devil) tempts them into eating the apple.

What you are referring to is:

[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 2:15-17[/BIBLEDRB]

and

[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 3:1-8[/BIBLEDRB]
Notice it doesn’t name the fruit specifically. The “apple” idea is man made.

This is the part that is confusing me ; please don’t call a devil worshipper or stuff like that.

You have a question and are seeking clarification. How does that make you a devil worshipper? It seems you have some preconcieved notions about the folks on this forum.

Paranoid much?

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

What the exact knowledge is is arguable. But essentially what it boils down to is the action of eating the fruit was man kind’s first choice to disobey God. Hence the term “original sin.”

What those governments are doing is suppression. They don’t want anything getting out that doesn’t agree with what Big Brother (the gov’t) is saying.

What Satan (the serpent) was doing all along is in no terms offering them a choice. The sole purpose behind that is to get God’s creations to disobey God via deception. The serpent was not simply educating them, far from it.

Civil rights can be argued to be those rights granted to man kind from God. Satan does not care about civil rights; only that he wants man kind to be seperated from God just as he is.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

Admitting you don’t know something is the first step to gaining knowledge. No harm in asking why.

Luke 6 : 37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

No judging here.

 

[itullian]

man chose"to be like God" so he lost his innocense and gained knowledge. spiritual and physical death resulted from disobeying and thus seperating himself from God,

 

[Farsight001]

IMHO you cannot be a Christian if you consider any book in the Bible a myth. The Bible is the Word of God; all or nothing.

A myth, properly defined, is nothing more than a creation story with supernatural elements. Is Genesis a creation story? Does it have supernatural elements? If yes to both, it is, by definition, a myth, even if everything within literally happened.

 

[loozcannon]

A myth, properly defined, is nothing more than a **creation story **(I added emphasis) with supernatural elements. Is Genesis a creation story? Does it have supernatural elements? If yes to both, it is, by definition, a myth, even if everything within literally happened.

So that we may have a common understanding, I actually went and looked it up. I found this to be the definition of myth:

1. a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2. stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.
3. any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the event is pure myth.
4. an imaginary or fictitious thing or person.
5. an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.

Note that it has nothing do with creation. However, I think I understand where you’re trying to go with that logic, so by definition 1, you could argue the whole Bible is a myth. However, my faith tells me otherwise.

 

[davidv]

So that we may have a common understanding, I actually went and looked it up. I found this to be the definition of myth:

1. a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2. stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.
3. any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the event is pure myth.
4. an imaginary or fictitious thing or person.
5. an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.
   Note that it has nothing do with creation. However, I think I understand where you’re trying to go with that logic, so by definition 1, you could argue the whole Bible is a myth. However, my faith tells me otherwise.

 

[Publisher]

Scripture can be existentially true WITHOUT it being 100% historically factual.

 

[Farsight001]

So that we may have a common understanding, I actually went and looked it up. I found this to be the definition of myth:

1. a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2. stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.
3. any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the event is pure myth.
4. an imaginary or fictitious thing or person.
5. an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.

Note that it has nothing do with creation. However, I think I understand where you’re trying to go with that logic, so by definition 1, you could argue the whole Bible is a myth. However, my faith tells me otherwise.

Yes, a story having nothing to do with creation is another, more broad, meaning of myth.

How, you say your faith tells you that the bible is not a myth? So then your faith tells you that the bible is not a legendary story? That it is not concerning a being/hero/event? That it has nothing to do with God or any other supernatural entity? And that it does not explain any phenomenon of nature?

What in the world, then, is your bible about?

 

[loozcannon]

Yes, a story having nothing to do with creation is another, more broad, meaning of myth.

Agreed.

How, you say your faith tells you that the bible is not a myth? So then your faith tells you that the bible is not a legendary story? That it is not concerning a being/hero/event? That it has nothing to do with God or any other supernatural entity? And that it does not explain any phenomenon of nature?

What in the world, then, is your bible about?

I see your point. You could choose then choose to step back and read the Bible as a novel. After all, it is full of violence, war, sex, intrigue and action. Your criteria is met in the Bible. However, the Bible is more than a mere myth. You don’t use a myth as a basis for life and your beliefs. The Bible has what you mentioned, certainly. But I don’t know of any other myths that call themselves the Word of God.

 

[Farsight001]

Agreed.

I see your point. You could choose then choose to step back and read the Bible as a novel. After all, it is full of violence, war, sex, intrigue and action. Your criteria is met in the Bible. However, the Bible is more than a mere myth. You don’t use a myth as a basis for life and your beliefs. The Bible has what you mentioned, certainly. But I don’t know of any other myths that call themselves the Word of God.

Except that the bible does not fit the definition of a novel.

I agree that it is more than a mere myth. I did not say it wasn’t. It is also more than a mere book. But it is still a book and it is still technically a myth.

 

[edwest2]

Before I ask this question I was brought up Catholic but I don’t agree with the running Catholic Church, However, I do have strong belief in Jesus, God etc.
Serious question (This question will probably be blocked.)

Any in the Old Testament (even though it’s a myth);

In the creation story , God forbid adam and eve from eating an apple from tree.
From my understanding from the bible the tree is the tree of knowledge;
And then the snake (devil) tempts them into eating the apple.

This is the part that is confusing me ; please don’t call a devil worshipper or stuff like that.

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

                     Luke 6 : 37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

Adam and Eve lived in perfect harmony with God, but, unlike robots, he gave them a truly free will. We are told that God gave them one command and they willfully broke it. It’s not just a story.

Peace,
Ed

 

[loozcannon]

Except that the bible does not fit the definition of a novel.

I agree that it is more than a mere myth. I did not say it wasn’t. It is also more than a mere book. But it is still a book and it is still technically a myth.

I’d love to discuss this more with you, but let’s not get away from the question the OP was asking. Feel free to PM me any time.

Peace be with you.

 

[loozcannon]

Before I ask this question I was brought up Catholic but I don’t agree with the running Catholic Church, However, I do have strong belief in Jesus, God etc.
Serious question (This question will probably be blocked.)

Any in the Old Testament (even though it’s a myth);

In the creation story , God forbid adam and eve from eating an apple from tree.
From my understanding from the bible the tree is the tree of knowledge;
And then the snake (devil) tempts them into eating the apple.

This is the part that is confusing me ; please don’t call a devil worshipper or stuff like that.

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

                     Luke 6 : 37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

Did you get your question answered?

 

[edwest2]

What is a myth is that Adam and Eve ate an apple. There is no mention of an apple in Scripture.

Perhaps not an “apple” but there is a clear reference to a physical fruit that was good for food and pleasing to the eye:

bible.cc/genesis/3-6.htm

Peace,
Ed

 

[xzereus]

Arguably the snake represents evil itself rather than Satan specifically. The devil is never mentioned in this passage.

There’s a major difference between trying to prevent something and controlling something. In this case, God tried to persuade humanity to take the easy route. We could live in a world where, quite literally, we had know clue what evil was! We would never have to experience any of the horrible things we all experience and do on a daily basis. Clearly, though, we didn’t take His advice–it doesn’t look like he controlled very much at all!

Governments, on the other hand, aren’t judged for information they “suggest” we don’t believe. Rather, they’re judged based on information the hide and completely prevent their people from knowing. This is certainly different from what God did.

 

[edwest2]

You yourself provided an “answer”…it’s “myth”…the story wasn’t trying to relay events that occured which happended to include a mystic tree with a magical fruit that was forbidden…it was seeking to relay that “somehow”…in “some way”…humanities relationship with the Eternal was broken…it was a “just so” type of story…why was there suffering in child birth…why did man have to toil and scratch his existence from the earth.

There was no “talking snake”…“somehow”…a breech occured in our relationship with God and this breech causes pain and destruction in our world.

In some other ancient myths not included in our volume of scripture…the snake is the hero…especially in the Gnostic/Mystical traditions…the serpent is the agent of the Good God who sent him to free those spirtual beings trapped in mortality…the “fruit” …the “knowledge” tha they were “trapped” was to open their eyes…the Creator sought to entrap spiritual beings in matter…but the Good Most High God sent the Serpent of Wisdom…Serpent of Knowledge to “free” those who had been entrapped and it failed…so other means…which eventually included the story of Jesus of Nazareth…both the “orthodox” and “Gnostic/hertics” versions seek to understand the “myths” and relay them in their own way…the goal is to free bound humanity…Truth can be found in either version if we look for it.

In the mystic/esotericist mind…the “orthodox” “confuse” the “finger pointing toward the moon as the moon itself”…the stories are attempts at relaying “Truth”…the problem occurs when we confuse the “story” with the “Subject of the story”…claiming the method of relaying Truth is the truth…instead of the means to relay it.

Hope that makes some sense.

That’s incorrect:

"Real History

"The argument is that all of this is real history, it is simply ordered topically rather than chronologically, and the ancient audience of Genesis, it is argued, would have understood it as such.

"Even if Genesis 1 records God’s work in a topical fashion, it still records God’s work—things God really did.

"The Catechism explains that “Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day” (CCC 337), but “nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun” (CCC 338).

"It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis 1 as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history, even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.

"Adam and Eve: Real People

“It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).”

Source: Catholic Answers archive

Peace,
Ed