Serious question: Creation story

[edwest2]

A myth, properly defined, is nothing more than a creation story with supernatural elements. Is Genesis a creation story? Does it have supernatural elements? If yes to both, it is, by definition, a myth, even if everything within literally happened.

Good point. But I’ve seen that most people think of a myth as something that never happened. It’s just like a children’s book story. Take Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. Some believe the message(s) in the story are all that matter. The rest never happened.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Scripture can be existentially true WITHOUT it being 100% historically factual.

The Church insists otherwise in many areas. Otherwise, especially in the Old Testament, we have the God who did nothing. Which is harder to claim regarding the New Testament because it is quite clear that Jesus raised the dead, gave sight to the blind, cleansed the lepers, etc.

Peace,
Ed

 

[sambos671]

The Church insists otherwise in many areas. Otherwise, especially in the Old Testament, we have the God who did nothing. Which is harder to claim regarding the New Testament because it is quite clear that Jesus raised the dead, gave sight to the blind, cleansed the lepers, etc.

Peace,
Ed

I don’t know what you mean by this. God raised the dead in the OT, Healed the Lepers, etc… God seemed very involoved though admittedly is was a more local involvment though I’m certain that world wide involvement occured as well. Maybe, I’m misunderstanding what you said.

 

[fhansen]

Before I ask this question I was brought up Catholic but I don’t agree with the running Catholic Church, However, I do have strong belief in Jesus, God etc.
Serious question (This question will probably be blocked.)

Any in the Old Testament (even though it’s a myth);

In the creation story , God forbid adam and eve from eating an apple from tree.
From my understanding from the bible the tree is the tree of knowledge;
And then the snake (devil) tempts them into eating the apple.

This is the part that is confusing me ; please don’t call a devil worshipper or stuff like that.

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

                     Luke 6 : 37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

Good is all that God is, and all that He wills. Anything less than, outside of, or opposed to that, is evil. By rebelling against God, by disobeying Him, man was to come to know, in his own being, what separation from God means, i.e. what evil is. That’s the experience we have here on earth, where good and evil are literally known-the good of God’s creation as an expression of Him, and the evil of sin, which we experience in one form or another daily along with it’s natural consequence, death, which we also experience in our own bodies daily until they finally expire. There’s nothing good about evil and the knowledge of evil-except insofar as it drives us to choose only the good.

 

[garysibio]

Before I ask this question I was brought up Catholic but I don’t agree with the running Catholic Church, However, I do have strong belief in Jesus, God etc.
Serious question (This question will probably be blocked.)

Any in the Old Testament (even though it’s a myth);

In the creation story , God forbid adam and eve from eating an apple from tree.
From my understanding from the bible the tree is the tree of knowledge;
And then the snake (devil) tempts them into eating the apple.

This is the part that is confusing me ; please don’t call a devil worshipper or stuff like that.

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

                     Luke 6 : 37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

Neither the Bible nor the Catholic Church identifies the fruit as an apple. That is a popular misconception which comes from artistic representations of the (historical) event.

 

[edwest2]

I don’t know what you mean by this. God raised the dead in the OT, Healed the Lepers, etc… God seemed very involoved though admittedly is was a more local involvment though I’m certain that world wide involvement occured as well. Maybe, I’m misunderstanding what you said.

The question concerns the Creation Story. It is regularly brought up here and the primary conclusion is that it describes something but that it’s not literal and should only be considered a story, like a fairy tale. It contains a message but could it be literal in any way? It appears the most common answer here is no.

Peace,
Ed

 

[garysibio]

The question concerns the Creation Story. It is regularly brought up here and the primary conclusion is that it describes something but that it’s not literal and should only be considered a story, like a fairy tale. It contains a message but could it be literal in any way? It appears the most common answer here is no.

Peace,
Ed

Truth is not decided by a majority vote.

 

[PJM]

=hockie_pokie;9311321]Before I ask this question I was brought up Catholic but I don’t agree with the running Catholic Church, However, I do have strong belief in Jesus, God etc.
Serious question (This question will probably be blocked.)

Any in the Old Testament (even though it’s a myth);

In the creation story , God forbid adam and eve from eating an apple from tree.
From my understanding from the bible the tree is the tree of knowledge;
And then the snake (devil) tempts them into eating the apple.

This is the part that is confusing me ; please don’t call a devil worshipper or stuff like that.

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

                     Luke 6 : 37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

My dear freind, thanks for asking

Your understanding it seems to ME, is kinda like not being able “to see the forest because of the trees”

The "Tree of Knowledge refers to “Exact God like knowledge” and even then it’s NOT that reality BUT the freewill choice to disobey and choose sin over God.

Both Adam and Eve; like Satan were granted many graces and gifts not available to us as a result of there sin.

They had very HIGH levels of knowledge, understanding, and Fear of the Lord, that we will not have until after our physical deaths. THAT IS THE PRECISE REASON THERE SIN WAS SO GREVIOUS AND PUNISHED SO SEVERLY.

Because God by absolute necessity MUST be “Just and Fair”; God MUST judge our actions based not only on what we choose to accept as true [that’s only a small part of it]; but on what God has made possible for us to know. This is what makes sin Grevious and Mortal.

Consider this: Isa.29: 16 ” You turn things upside down! Shall the potter be regarded as the clay; that the thing made should say of its maker, “He did not make me”; or the thing formed say of him who formed it, “He has no understanding”?

Isa.64: 8 “Yet, O LORD, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou art our potter; we are all the work of thy hand.”

It is a ABSOLUTE Truthful fact that God MUST BE GOOD.

So are "fairness and justice “good things?” OF COURSE THEY ARE. Therefore we can be certain that God cannot, ABSOLUTELY cannot do anything but “good”; “fair and just.”

God Bless you and grant you further understanding, which FYI is a FRUIT of True Faith

KEP asking questions my friensd, its a GREAtb way to learn.
pat/PJM

 

[edwest2]

Truth is not decided by a majority vote.

Hi Gary,

So, what is the answer?

A) If not an apple, then some type of fruit since the inspired (by the Holy Spirit) author writes that the woman saw it as good for food and pleasing to the eye. Yes? No?

B) Satan was in the Garden which the writer tells us, Adam tended. Did he actually speak? Was he cursed by God to crawl on his belly? Yes? No?

Thanks in advance,
Ed

 

[garysibio]

Hi Gary,

So, what is the answer?

A) If not an apple, then some type of fruit since the inspired (by the Holy Spirit) author writes that the woman saw it as good for food and pleasing to the eye. Yes? No?

B) Satan was in the Garden which the writer tells us, Adam tended. Did he actually speak? Was he cursed by God to crawl on his belly? Yes? No?

Thanks in advance,
Ed

What happened is exactly what Genesis says happened.

Did Abraham exist? Isaac? Joseph? If you can’t trust Gen 1-11, how can you trust 12-50? If you can’t trust Genesis, how can you trust Matthew, Mark, Luke or John?

 

[thistle]

Perhaps not an “apple” but there is a clear reference to a physical fruit that was good for food and pleasing to the eye:

bible.cc/genesis/3-6.htm

Peace,
Ed

Not perhaps. There is no mention of an apple. We do not know what the fruit was.

 

[grannymh]

For real answers,

check out paragraphs 355 - 421 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.

Warning – This is not a page-turner.

 

[stevekehl]

hockie_pokie;9311321:

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

                     Luke 6 : 37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

So God is the mean controlling parent and Satan is the wise provider of wisdom. If Satan was pedalling wisdom how didit work out. Is humanity better off following Satan’s “freedom.” This isn’t an unexpected postmodern response to Scripture. When you tell someone don’t stick that screwdriver into that outlet you’re seen as limiting choices. Adam and Eve always had the choice to eat the fruit or not, to be obedient or not, who knows how long they listened to God, a million years? God told them to stay away from it for their own good. We have to stop projecting our thinking onto God’s commands and recognize His authority to instruct us on how to live. Responses like this from Publisher don’t help.

You yourself provided an “answer”…it’s “myth”…the story wasn’t trying to relay events that occured which happended to include a mystic tree with a magical fruit that was forbidden…it was seeking to relay that “somehow”…in “some way”…humanities relationship with the Eternal was broken…it was a “just so” type of story…why was there suffering in child birth…why did man have to toil and scratch his existence from the earth.

There was no “talking snake”…“somehow”…a breech occured in our relationship with God and this breech causes pain and destruction in our world.

Wow, a Quaker who doesn’t believe in the Bible. Imagine my surprise. So by categorizing Genesis as a myth you would call Jesus a liar or the Gospel’s as an imaginary story. In Matthew 19 and Mark 10 Jesus said In the beginning the Creator made them male and female, either He was lying about the beginning, He didn’t know it was a “myth” therefor not there in the beginning with God, the writer’s made up what Jesus said, or Genesis is a record of the beginning of mankind.

 

[grannymh]

Before I ask this question I was brought up Catholic but I don’t agree with the running Catholic Church, However, I do have strong belief in Jesus, God etc.
Serious question (This question will probably be blocked.)

Any in the Old Testament (even though it’s a myth);

In the creation story , God forbid adam and eve from eating an apple from tree.
From my understanding from the bible the tree is the tree of knowledge;
And then the snake (devil) tempts them into eating the apple.

This is the part that is confusing me ; please don’t call a devil worshipper or stuff like that.

Figuratively, In today’s we see that many governments, countries trying to censor the citizens for example China , North Korea etc.

Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.

I probably don’t know what I’m talking , could someone clarify this for me please.
PLEASE NOTE: THAT NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE(AS IT SAYS IN THE FORUM RULES).

Luke 6 : 37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

From post 1. “Back to the creation story; { please don’t judge for this comment}
Doesn’t it look like the God is preventing them finding knowledge, trying to control them; And the snake trying to give them freedom of choice; in our day known as Civil rights.”

Are you looking for the best explanation of the “story”? If so, there are all kinds of explanations. There is no need to add mine.

Or are you interested in knowing the basic Catholic doctrines which flow from the first three chapters of Genesis? If so, there is no choice as to which story-explanation is the most appealing.

 

[Publisher]

So God is the mean controlling parent and Satan is the wise provider of wisdom. If Satan was pedalling wisdom how didit work out. Is humanity better off following Satan’s “freedom.” This isn’t an unexpected postmodern response to Scripture. When you tell someone don’t stick that screwdriver into that outlet you’re seen as limiting choices. Adam and Eve always had the choice to eat the fruit or not, to be obedient or not, who knows how long they listened to God, a million years? God told them to stay away from it for their own good. We have to stop projecting our thinking onto God’s commands and recognize His authority to instruct us on how to live. Responses like this from Publisher don’t help.

Wow, a Quaker who doesn’t believe in the Bible. Imagine my surprise. So by categorizing Genesis as a myth you would call Jesus a liar or the Gospel’s as an imaginary story. In Matthew 19 and Mark 10 Jesus said In the beginning the Creator made them male and female, either He was lying about the beginning, He didn’t know it was a “myth” therefor not there in the beginning with God, the writer’s made up what Jesus said, or Genesis is a record of the beginning of mankind.

Friend, I believe the Bible…I read and study it every day…“believing” that the stories are “historical fact” is not “believing”…It’s moral teachings…deep spiritual truths…guidance are at the center of my life…I believe the teachings…don’t necessarily believe the “stories” it uses to convey Truth…big difference.

I may also search those other “stories” which existed during the same time as when scripture was written and seek to understand the historical times and influences which impacted and influenced the writers as they forumulated a more understandable mythology without embracing the opposing mythology. I can still read those opposing myths and see the Truth in them they too sought to convey without embracing it’s “theology” in toto.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

It’s easy.

God had everything under control. Adam and Eve didn’t have to know anything about HOW to run the shop; they just got to go around frolicking in the flowers with the bunnies.

They didn’t have to. They trusted God. They trusted him so much they didn’t even have a word for “trust.” It was built into them, in the original release.

The serpent was like, "hey dudes, did you know you could actually learn how all this works? You were made in the image of God. Don’t you think you should be able to do God’s job?

Adam and Eve were like, “righteous. Bring it on.” Serpent says, “all ya gotta do is do something wrong, and that will put a glitch in the matrix.”

Adam and Eve: what does “wrong” mean? All I know is we can do anything.

Serpent: Anything? Even eat of … THAT … tree? Can you make it warmer or colder in here? What about getting us some plumbing?

AE: oh, ummm… no, can’t eat of that tree! Never thought about the other stuff.

Serpent: Bingo! You know what you have to do, right? Think: glitch.

AE: Ok, here we go.

(They take a bite and God gets a notification that the tree has been parsed. The Genesis equivalent to shutting down the containment field.)

So God awarded Adam and Eve a) a certification to invent calculus – in order to chop creation into little tiny (mortal) bits and give them names, and b) the first engineering degree.

Then God said, “good luck, kids,” and took off for the Aurora Borealis.

So here we are, kids of Adam and Eve, still in on-the-job training. Adam didn’t know his eternal life would be chopped into trillions of little pieces over the eons that call themselves “human.”

Alan

 

[grannymh]

It’s easy.

God had everything under control. Adam and Eve didn’t have to know anything about HOW to run the shop; they just got to go around frolicking in the flowers with the bunnies.

They didn’t have to. They trusted God. They trusted him so much they didn’t even have a word for “trust.” It was built into them, in the original release.

The serpent was like, "hey dudes, did you know you could actually learn how all this works? You were made in the image of God. Don’t you think you should be able to do God’s job?

Adam and Eve were like, “righteous. Bring it on.” Serpent says, “all ya gotta do is do something wrong, and that will put a glitch in the matrix.”

Adam and Eve: what does “wrong” mean? All I know is we can do anything.

Serpent: Anything? Even eat of … THAT … tree? Can you make it warmer or colder in here? What about getting us some plumbing?

AE: oh, ummm… no, can’t eat of that tree! Never thought about the other stuff.

Serpent: Bingo! You know what you have to do, right? Think: glitch.

AE: Ok, here we go.

(They take a bite and God gets a notification that the tree has been parsed. The Genesis equivalent to shutting down the containment field.)

So God awarded Adam and Eve a) a certification to invent calculus – in order to chop creation into little tiny (mortal) bits and give them names, and b) the first engineering degree.

Then God said, “good luck, kids,” and took off for the Aurora Borealis.

So here we are, kids of Adam and Eve, still in on-the-job training. Adam didn’t know his eternal life would be chopped into trillions of little pieces over the eons that call themselves “human.”

Alan

This is a great left-over April Fool’s joke. It certainly made me laugh. Especially the bit about Adam being a dumb bunny. That is so far from the truth that I am still laughing…

 

[AlanFromWichita]

This is a great left-over April Fool’s joke. It certainly made me laugh. Especially the bit about Adam being a dumb bunny. That is so far from the truth that I am still laughing…

I’m glad it gave you a smile!

Alan