Serious question...

[erine]

This sounds kind of weird, but I know you all can help

In my 54-day rosary novena, one of the virtues prayed for in the sorrowful mysteries is Mortification.

Since I started praying it about 5 or 6 weeks ago, I’ve had incidents like slipping and giving myself large bruises, my cat getting really aggressive and scratching and biting me, my car got hit and my back was quite sore though I am fine, and other things that don’t normally happen quite so often.

So…is this the mortification I prayed for? I’m just wondering.

 

[NewsTheMan]

So…is this the mortification I prayed for? I’m just wondering.

I’m not God so I cannot know what tests He gives you or what sufferings He permits in your life. However, it sounds to me like perhaps because you knew you prayed for mortification that it was at the forefront of your thought and you became conscious of it. So a sort of confirmation bias where you suddenly notice small pains in your life. Mortifcation as a spiritual thing is more than just a bruise or a cat scratching you. Perhaps those things are smaller ways to accept suffering and offer it up (and the small things indeed please God!) but mortification is more of a conscious decision to suffer in some way (fasting, self-flagellation etc) in order to join our sufferings with Christ.

Whatever the case may be, I wouldn’t discount these sufferings as you may still offer them up to God.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This sounds kind of weird, but I know you all can help

In my 54-day rosary novena, one of the virtues prayed for in the sorrowful mysteries is Mortification.

Since I started praying it about 5 or 6 weeks ago, I’ve had incidents like slipping and giving myself large bruises, my cat getting really aggressive and scratching and biting me, my car got hit and my back was quite sore though I am fine, and other things that don’t normally happen quite so often.

So…is this the mortification I prayed for? I’m just wondering.

Since when is mortification a virtue?

Jim

 

[MariaChristi]

Since when is mortification a virtue?

Jim

Dear Jim, erine and NewsTheMan,

Jim: may I suggest that “mortification” from the Latin words meaning “to make dead” is found in the Gospel of Matthew:

Mat 16:24 - 26 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life? Or what shall a man give in return

There are also other passages in Scripture which speak of dying to self and living for Christ, but I chose the above since it points to the choices we make daily, if we are to be followers of Christ. Articles on the “Virtue of Mortification” HERE and also HERE

erine: Yes, yours is a serious question, and I believe that NewsTheMan, offered a good suggestion in that “mortification” was very much on your mind when these events happened, so it may have been natural for you to assume that the difficulties were intended that you might offer them up as “mortifications”.

It is true that all the happenings in our lives are permitted by God, and it is good for us to offer any difficulty in union with the suffering of Christ, but we also must continuallly discern what God would have us do in situations. I agree with NewsTheMan further that mortification becomes virtuous when we are consciously deciding to die to that which keeps us from God. We need, of course, to stay away from the near occasions of sin, and we also need to die to selfishness which may keep us from doing the good such as praying with greater attention and devotion, serving others (especially the needy) by giving alms or helping in other ways, and by fasting. Perhaps the articles I have inked to above, may help you discern what the Lord may be calling you to do in order to become more like Him. That is our goal, ultimately: Union with God in the perfection of charity. It is the love with which we do anything that makes it so pleasing to God. Our Lady lived a simple life but one completely given to God in love. Her sorrows were embraced, as she embraced Christ. So with us, we must die with Christ, in order to rise with Him. Hope that helps a bit.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Dear Jim, erine and NewsTheMan,

Jim: may I suggest that “mortification” from the Latin words meaning “to make dead” is found in the Gospel of Matthew:

There are also other passages in Scripture which speak of dying to self and living for Christ, but I chose the above since it points to the choices we make daily, if we are to be followers of Christ. Articles on the “Virtue of Mortification” HERE and also HERE

erine: Yes, yours is a serious question, and I believe that NewsTheMan, offered a good suggestion in that “mortification” was very much on your mind when these events happened, so it may have been natural for you to assume that the difficulties were intended that you might offer them up as “mortifications”.

It is true that all the happenings in our lives are permitted by God, and it is good for us to offer any difficulty in union with the suffering of Christ, but we also must continuallly discern what God would have us do in situations. I agree with NewsTheMan further that mortification becomes virtuous when we are consciously deciding to die to that which keeps us from God. We need, of course, to stay away from the near occasions of sin, and we also need to die to selfishness which may keep us from doing the good such as praying with greater attention and devotion, serving others (especially the needy) by giving alms or helping in other ways, and by fasting. Perhaps the articles I have inked to above, may help you discern what the Lord may be calling you to do in order to become more like Him. That is our goal, ultimately: Union with God in the perfection of charity. It is the love with which we do anything that makes it so pleasing to God. Our Lady lived a simple life but one completely given to God in love. Her sorrows were embraced, as she embraced Christ. So with us, we must die with Christ, in order to rise with Him. Hope that helps a bit.

I believe that mortification is a dicipline, but not a virtue.

The Church teaches there are seven virutes;

Prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, faith, hope and charity.

Now I suppose that in order to achieve these virtues, it would require some form of self-mortification, for often we have to detach ourselves from our own desires in order to work towards these virtues.

However, there are many times that we can serve these virtues purely out of love, without a sense of mortification.

But mortification in itself isn’t a virtue.

Jim

 

[Blenderx]

This sounds kind of weird, but I know you all can help

In my 54-day rosary novena, one of the virtues prayed for in the sorrowful mysteries is Mortification.

Since I started praying it about 5 or 6 weeks ago, I’ve had incidents like slipping and giving myself large bruises, my cat getting really aggressive and scratching and biting me, my car got hit and my back was quite sore though I am fine, and other things that don’t normally happen quite so often.

So…is this the mortification I prayed for? I’m just wondering.

Semantics aside, yes, its certainly possible. God can certainly be using or permitting these occasions to get you used to suffering and detach you from pleasures and goods (with the end of attaching you to Himself, of course). Many people notice that when they pray for humility, as an example, they experience an increase in humiliations- opportunities to practice humility.

 

[puzzleannie]

ThisIn my 54-day rosary novena, one of the virtues prayed for in the sorrowful mysteries is Mortification.

.

I don’t know what source you are using and how it describes the virtue of mortification, but I doubt any truly Catholic resource says praying for this virtue is the same as praying for bad things to happen to you. Sounds like the cat needs to be properly trained.

 

[erine]

To clarify

prayerflowers.com/54DayNovena.htm

I am using that site for the novena. It calls mortification a virtue. I don’t know if that is technically right.

I wondered about these events because I wasn’t going out of my way to practice mortification, and each time I thought “well I did pray for mortification” lol

So maybe I notice it more or maybe God is doing this. If I am not going out of my way to fast, God could maybe take painful accidents and allow me to offer them up

Either way though, I am taking disciplinary measures for the cat

 

[Blenderx]

Many saints have shared with us that it is by the Cross that Christ changes us in to His image. So if we are going to ask for virtue, then we need to be ready to accept the crosses He sends us. But the suffering of a generous soul united to Christ is truly a sweet kind of suffering.

 

[fide]

I believe that mortification is a dicipline, but not a virtue.

The Church teaches there are seven virutes;

Prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, faith, hope and charity.

Now I suppose that in order to achieve these virtues, it would require some form of self-mortification, for often we have to detach ourselves from our own desires in order to work towards these virtues.

However, there are many times that we can serve these virtues purely out of love, without a sense of mortification.

But mortification in itself isn’t a virtue.

Jim

Hello Jim - Yes, but the Church does not teach that there are ONLY seven virtues. You have listed only the four “cardinal” virtues, and the three "theological " virtues, which are in a sense foundational to other virtues. The Catechism gives the general definition of a virtue:

1833 **Virtue is a habitual and firm disposition to do good. **

1834 The human virtues are stable dispositions of the intellect and the will that govern our acts, order our passions, and guide our conduct in accordance with reason and faith. They can be grouped around the four cardinal virtues: prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance.
…

1840 The theological virtues dispose Christians to live in a relationship with the Holy Trinity. They have God for their origin, their motive, and their object - God known by faith, God hoped in and loved for his own sake.

1841 There are three theological virtues: faith, hope, and charity. They inform all the moral virtues and give life to them.

Thus the four cardinal virtues are human and can be found in any person who strives by discipline to attain them. The theological virtues are given by grace in Baptism, and inform, elevate and vivify all other moral virtues. Since a virtue, in general, is “a habitual and firm disposition to do good,” mortification when directed to the life of Christ can be a virtue. As the Lord taught, our Christian life consists in every day taking up the instrument of our death in Him - the Cross - and following Him. Thus mortification is an intrinsic element of discipleship - a necessary virtue of the Christian life.