Sermon: No Salvation outside the Catholic Church

[Mithrandylan]

Listening to this has made me physically sick. Makes me ashamed to be a Catholic.
This is no better than radical Islam.

Pope = God
Catholic Church = God

Mk: 10:31
" But many who are first will be last, and the last first"

I don’t know what this means. You thought catholicism was just “another option” in a long line of completely legitimate religions from which salvation can be attained? Or you are made sick by all the people denying EENS?

Also, the pope is not God but in a matter of speaking, the Church is. The Catholic church is the Bride of Christ and by extension, His mystical body.

 

[Pitcharan]

The cc is one single Catechism written with the “spirit of v2.” What it says is close to nothing- it makes a thousand something proclamations, all too ambigous to be made heads or tails of. It says Muslims are part of God’s plan of salvation. And I agree, insofar as it they don’t become Catholic they’ll fry.

The point of EENS has been understood very clearly for the first 1950 years of the church and been stated by a good half-dozen popes and close to a dozen church fathers. It is Sacred Tradition and long-standing doctrine. If you disagree, you’ve got to do better than “well, the cc says”

Because I think the ccc is, by and large, useless. When it lines up with Tradition I listen, but it’s largely a novelty and ambigous. Why you’d support the ambiguity of the ccc and ignore the very clear and unequivocal proclamations of past popes and councils taht state POINT BLANK that “there is no salvation outside the church” is beyond me.

YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG. Contrary to your belief that Muslims will fry, only people who share this belief of yours will fry

 

[zab]

The cc is one single Catechism written with the “spirit of v2.” What it says is close to nothing- it makes a thousand something proclamations, all too ambigous to be made heads or tails of. It says Muslims are part of God’s plan of salvation. And I agree, insofar as it they don’t become Catholic they’ll fry.

The point of EENS has been understood very clearly for the first 1950 years of the church and been stated by a good half-dozen popes and close to a dozen church fathers. It is Sacred Tradition and long-standing doctrine. If you disagree, you’ve got to do better than “well, the cc says”

Because I think the ccc is, by and large, useless. When it lines up with Tradition I listen, but it’s largely a novelty and ambigous. Why you’d support the ambiguity of the ccc and ignore the very clear and unequivocal proclamations of past popes and councils taht state POINT BLANK that “there is no salvation outside the church” is beyond me.

You are totally misrepresenting Church teaching on who can be saved. The Catholic Church has never taught that unless one become Catholic “they’ll fry” or will not be saved.

 

[RubyT]

Listening to this has made me physically sick. Makes me ashamed to be a Catholic.
This is no better than radical Islam.

Pope = God
Catholic Church = God

Forum Banter makes you sick and ashamed to be a Catholic. Huh, is that all it takes? Stand up and be proud it takes all kinds to make this great Catholic church. I think you are putting equal signs where they are not really being proposed. Peace friend. It is okay to banter.

God Bless us everyone.

 

[Luvtosew]

The sermon made me sick. I think the site should be montiored. I see lay people get permission from unidentitfied Priests to read their sermons.

Yes it says all Priests are in good standing with the Church, and there are probably some good sermons on the site, but I ddin’t listen to anymore.

I guess people who feel there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church would like that sermon , but I don’t feel that way or believe it.

 

[RubyT]

The sermon made me sick. I think the site should be montiored. I see lay people get permission from unidentitfied Priests to read their sermons.

Yes it says all Priests are in good standing with the Church, and there are probably some good sermons on the site, but I ddin’t listen to anymore.

I guess people who feel there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church would like that sermon , but I don’t feel that way or believe it.

I agree with you on the salvation issue but will never be ashamed to be a Catholic. PAX my friend. P.S. I know you didn’t really mean it, you were just disgusted at the time.

Happy new Year and may it bring you all of Gods Blessings.

 

[RubyT]

Sorry, am new to this discussion…

Doesn’t the Bible make it clear what is required for salvation? I don’t recall any particular denomination of Christianity being mentioned.

I agree.

 

[fred_conty]

Actually, pnewton, this was very common before Vatican II when I grew up. My father was Protestant and as a child, my brother and sister and myself, were terrified when he got sick that he would die and go to hell. One of the best things to come out of Vatican II was a cessation of this stark and dire belief.

A belief that went along with this was that Catholics were forbidden to attend Protestant services. As late as 1967 when my grandmother died, we had to ask permission of our parish priest to attend her services at her church.

My grandfather was a Catholic and he married my Protestant and divorced grandmother sometime in the 1910s. He was excommunicated from the Church and from his family. The only way I got to know the Catholic side of my father’s family was because my great-aunt on my mother’s side was friends with my great-aunt on my father’s side. We saw them once a year near All Saint’s Day when families spent time whitewashing family graves and putting out flowers. My aunt would take the three of us across the cemetery to visit.

I am not making this up. There was no salvation outside the Catholic Church prior to Vatican II and I give thanks to God that we no longer have this belief.

My sympathy and understanding go out to you because you were taught this terrible mistake. It must have been very very harmful and painful. I was fortunate because I was never told this at anytime and I lived in those days before Vatican II. But I do understand that some did teach this which is very unfortunate to say the least.

 

[NewsTheMan]

It is a sad, sad day when people who call themselves Catholics say they are sad or disgusted by the teaching that there is no salvation outside the Church - and you better believe that it is a doctrinally binding teaching of the Church, because it is. No “if’s” or “buts” - there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. This is not something to be sad over. Rejoice! You have much to be thankful for as a Catholic! And rejoice that Christ did all this for you. If you admit that other religions are a means to salvation, you call Christ a liar, you trivialize His Passion, and you deny His mediation on our behalf as the High Priest. If you believe that the heresy of Protestantism is a means to salvation, you do the same, since protestantism is by definition a heresy and a denial of Catholic truths it is a denial of Christ. This doctrine is beautiful when understood properly. It is what lead the Apostles to convert the world, and it’s what gave us missionaries and evangelization.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215): “One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful outside which no one at all is saved…”

Pope Boniface VIII in his Papal Bull Unam Sanctam (A.D. 1302): “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (A.D. 1438 – 1445): “[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

Here is a great article called “Sentimental Theology” which looks out the emotional side of why people deny the doctrine for whatever reason.

 

[fred_conty]

This depends on your understanding of the church’s teaching. The popes and others
make a distinction between the soul and juridical part of the church. And they have
said that many who don’t belong or accept the juridical part do belong to the soul
of the church and therefore are included in membership of the church in this way.
As such they are saved if they do what they know is right and just before the
Lord. They also have another name for it, the baptism of desire. So to say
that others that are not part of the church are not saved is only true if they do not
belong to the soul of the church. And the condition of others I cannot say since I
have enough to take care of my on sins. However we are oibliged to pray for all
mankind and for their salvation.

As for the wording of the Bull and the Council of Florence, this has been explained
on CAF before. Tho I don’t remember exactly, I can relate the over all reason.
At that time in history, some of the monarchy or VIPs were giving the Pope a hard
time. These men were Catholic. The word “bosom” was referring to them, that is
they might now be no longer considered in the “bosom” of the church if they insisted
on their contrary views to the Pope’s. The reference to the Jews was because they
were prostylisg Catholic Jews. So the wording and spirit were directed to that day
with their problems at hand. If taken out of that context, then the race to
misunderstanding begins. I’m sure there are history books which will give more
clearification to this.

Just a little thought.

 

[Sirach2]

No “if’s” or “buts” - there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

NewsTheMan,

Your very hardline approach to privately interpreting this teaching of the Church is dogmatically in error. My job has become rather easy, with many of the pertinent references all in one thread. I ask that you review these prayerfully and withdraw from posting your errors, lest you meet the fate of the others who likewise attempted to promote these false teachings here at CAF. I assure you, they will post no longer.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8697416&postcount=17

One more that was not in the list:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8523271&postcount=274