sermon on the mount

danandirma · Mar 1, 2008

I have been talking with my dad about the Bible, he is not Catholic. He thinks Jesus sermon on the mount is only fr the jews.??? where is he getting this from?

blessing to you all
YBIC
Dan

ie…
to read it. I know you want to stay just in the Bible, BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE READING.The Jewish religion is a false religion and any church that holds to their views is a false religion, it is not the christian religion. If yoou don’t know you can’t grow.

when you read the bible slow down take 1/2 of the verse at a time. Ask your self what is it that he is trying to tell me? Once you have absorbed it, then go on to the rest of the verse.

Code:

        Acts 4:1-2  Ans as they spake unto the people,  (WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE) the priests, and the captain of the temple, (THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS) and the Sadducees, came upon them,
        vs 2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

        Matt. 22: 23  The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection,    

        vs. 41 While the Pharisees (MORE JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS) were gathered to gether, Jesus asked them,

        vs 42  Saying, What think ye of Christ?  whose son is he?  They say    unto him, The son of David.  (THEY DON/T BELIEVE HE IS WHO HE IS.  He is just a teacher or preacher).

        Matt. 23:1-39 To mucch to type.

Now to answere you questions. What Jesus taught to the Jews IS BEING TAUGHT TO YOU AND IT HAS NO BARRING ON YOU. It is strictly for the Jews.Matt. 10:5-7.

Code:

        These twelve Jesus sent fourth, and  COMMANDED  THEM, SAYING go NOT INTO THE WAY OF THE GENTILES, AND INTO ANY CITY OF THE SAMARITANS ENTER YE NOT: 
        VS 6 But go rather to the LOST SHEEP OF THE  HOUSE OF ISRAEL.
        vs 7  And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.  This is not a call to the Gentiles.

        The sermon on the mount Matt: ch 5-ch7 Is the Earthly message to the Jews in the mellinum.  It is not for Christians.    Again I'v got to say the Jewish laws and Christianity do not mix.

ryanoneil · Mar 1, 2008

danandirma said:
The sermon on the mount Matt: ch 5-ch7 Is the Earthly message to the Jews in the mellinum. It is not for Christians. Again I’v got to say the Jewish laws and Christianity do not mix.

The sermon on the mount applies to all of us who would be disciples of Jesus! So does the golden rule, which is Christ’s fulfillment of the Jewish law.

*“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.” * (Mat 7:21)

Jesus was talking to all of us!

Peace,

Ryan

SyCarl · Mar 1, 2008

danandirma said:
I have been talking with my dad about the Bible, he is not Catholic. He thinks Jesus sermon on the mount is only fr the jews.??? where is he getting this from?

This appears to be a dispensationalist view. They believe that different rules apply to different dispensations. God’s plan for Israel is one of the dispensations. When the Jews rejected Jesus, their dispensation was basically put on hold and the focus turned to the Gentiles. That was the begining of the Church’s dispensation. They believe that after the Church dispensation the Jewish dispensation will be completed with an earthly kingdom. Since much of the Bible was directed to the Jews, and they are a different dispensation, those parts, such as the Sermon on the Mount don’t apply to us.

I hope I have not gotten the dispensational view too wrong.

Fidelis · Mar 1, 2008

Your Dad is probably what’s called a Dispensationallist.

Dispensationalism basically teaches that salvation history is divided up into a series of covenants, or “dispensations,” between God and certain men or peoples.

§ These include Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and Israel (the Law), and Christ and his Church. All of these separate covenants failed because of people’s unfaithfulness.

§ When the Jews refused to accept Jesus, the “Dispensation of the Law” temporarily ceased, and the “Dispensation of Grace” (the era of the Church) began. [NOTE: Many dispensationalists believe Jesus was part of the “Dispensation of the Law.” Therefore Christians, living in the “Dispensation of Grace,” do not need to concern themselves with his teaching in the Gospels! Also, that’s why many fundamentalists give so much attention to St. Paul’s epistles.]

§ This “age of the Church,” they say, will last until the Rapture, when Jesus will come in the clouds and all true believers will be taken up into the sky while everyone else is “left behind” to suffer 7 years of tribulation under the Anti-Christ. This is based on 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

§ At the end of that time Jesus will come again, the battle of Armageddon will be fought, and Jesus will establish a literal 1000-year reign on earth (the Millennium, Revelation 20:3). This will be a period of peace where the Jews will renew their covenant and it will be a continuation of the Dispensation of the Law that had been interrupted by the “Church Age.”

§ At the end of the 1000 year “Millennial Kingdom,” Satan will be unleashed (Revelation 20:7), a final battle between Jesus and Satan will be waged, Christ will triumph, and the Last Judgment will occur Revelation 20:8-15).

§ Selected passages from the OT prophets Daniel, Ezekiel and Zechariah—as well as the Olivet Discourse of Jesus found in Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 17—are also important.

§ Many fundamentalists in the last 150 years have spent countless hours trying to tie in current events to these and other Bible verses they say refer to signs that the end times are imminent.

Dispensationalism was first formulated by an ex-Anglican priest named John Nelson Darby around 1860 in England. **Prior to this, NO ONE in the entire history of the Church held this belief. **

His ideas failed to catch on in England but were enthusiastically received in the United States where there had just been a great revival.
His ideas were further popularized by an American named Cyrus Scofield who published a Bible (in 1909) that had extensive study notes on Dispensationalist theology. This Scofield Reference Bible sold millions of copies and is still popular with fundamentalist Protestants today. It was also very anti-Catholic.

Lev23 · Mar 1, 2008

SyCarl said:
This appears to be a dispensationalist view. They believe that different rules apply to different dispensations. God’s plan for Israel is one of the dispensations. When the Jews rejected Jesus, their dispensation was basically put on hold and the focus turned to the Gentiles. That was the begining of the Church’s dispensation. They believe that after the Church dispensation the Jewish dispensation will be completed with an earthly kingdom. Since much of the Bible was directed to the Jews, and they are a different dispensation, those parts, such as the Sermon on the Mount don’t apply to us.

I hope I have not gotten the dispensational view too wrong.

Dispensationalism does teach that the Sermon of the Mount DOES apply to the church.

danandirma · Mar 1, 2008

Thank ou all for your (name removed by moderator)uts. But can anyone give me some tips on how to refute this kind of belief? Thank you again.

Dan YBIC

Fidelis · Mar 1, 2008

Lev23 said:
Dispensationalism does teach that the Sermon of the Mount DOES apply to the church.

Depends which Dispensationalist you talk to (so much for *Sola Scriptura *and the perpescuity of Scripture

). Just as no one speaks for Protestantism, no one speaks for Dispensationalism.

In my experience, most Dispensationalists *I *run into do not think the SOTM applies to Christians.

Nita · Mar 1, 2008

danandirma said:
I have been talking with my dad about the Bible, he is not Catholic. He thinks Jesus sermon on the mount is only fr the jews.??? where is he getting this from?

Thank ou all for your (name removed by moderator)uts. But can anyone give me some tips on how to refute this kind of belief? Thank you again.

Dan YBIC

I would point out to your father that the sermon on the mount was given to those who were disciples (followers, believers) of Christ, not Jews who rejected Him and remained in the Jewish faith.

*Mt. 5:1-2 Seeing the crowds, He went up on the mountain, and when He sat down, **His disciples **came to Him. And He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:

Luke 6:20 And He lifted up His eyes on His disciples, and said: “Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God…”*

ryanoneil · Mar 1, 2008

In the sermon on the mount Jesus is fulfilling the OT law and remaking it, so to speak, into his law. Notice Jesus says "You have heard is said. . . but I say to you. This **law of Christ **applies to Jew and Gentile, not the works of the OT law in (Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16; 3:2,5,10; and Eph. 2:8-9). The **law of Christ **is faith in Christ and works based on grace (God owes us nothing) and “works of the OT law” mean no faith in Christ, and legal works based on debt (God owes us something).

Bear one another’s burdens, and so you will fulfill the law of Christ. (Gal 6:2)

For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people’s hidden works through Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:13-16)

Peace,

Ryan

Lev23 · Mar 2, 2008

Fidelis said:
Depends which Dispensationalist you talk to (so much for *Sola Scriptura *and the perpescuity of Scripture ). Just as no one speaks for Protestantism, no one speaks for Dispensationalism.

In my experience, most Dispensationalists *I *run into do not think the SOTM applies to Christians.

Come on, will ya? Grow up. This would be like me on a purgatory thread stating-“Most Catholics I know do not believe in purgatory.” etc., etc.

I dont know ONE catholic of any type or protestant of any type that does not believe that the sermon on the mount is applicable to their life in Christ today.

Lev23 · Mar 2, 2008

ryanoneil said:
In the sermon on the mount Jesus is fulfilling the OT law and remaking it, so to speak, into his law. Notice Jesus says "You have heard is said. . . but I say to you. This **law of Christ **applies to Jew and Gentile, not the works of the OT law in (Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16; 3:2,5,10; and Eph. 2:8-9). The **law of Christ **is faith in Christ and works based on grace (God owes us nothing) and “works of the OT law” mean no faith in Christ, and legal works based on debt (God owes us something).

Bear one another’s burdens, and so you will fulfill the law of Christ. (Gal 6:2)

For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people’s hidden works through Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:13-16)

Peace,

Ryan

It seems to me that Jesus is showing Israel the offense doesn’t start from the act, but from the motive, the “heart” of a person. This is totally applicible to the chuch today.

Lev23 · Mar 2, 2008

ryanoneil said:
In the sermon on the mount Jesus is fulfilling the OT law and remaking it, so to speak, into his law. Notice Jesus says "You have heard is said. . . but I say to you. This **law of Christ **applies to Jew and Gentile, not the works of the OT law in (Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16; 3:2,5,10; and Eph. 2:8-9). The **law of Christ **is faith in Christ and works based on grace (God owes us nothing) and “works of the OT law” mean no faith in Christ, and legal works based on debt (God owes us something).

Bear one another’s burdens, and so you will fulfill the law of Christ. (Gal 6:2)

For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people’s hidden works through Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:13-16)

Peace,

Ryan

It seems to me that Jesus is showing Israel the offense doesn’t start from the act, but from the motive, the “heart” of a person. This is totally applicible to the chuch today.

thistle · Mar 2, 2008

danandirma said:
I have been talking with my dad about the Bible, he is not Catholic. He thinks Jesus sermon on the mount is only fr the jews.??? where is he getting this from?

blessing to you all
YBIC
Dan

ie…
to read it. I know you want to stay just in the Bible, BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE READING.The Jewish religion is a false religion and any church that holds to their views is a false religion, it is not the christian religion. If yoou don’t know you can’t grow.

when you read the bible slow down take 1/2 of the verse at a time. Ask your self what is it that he is trying to tell me? Once you have absorbed it, then go on to the rest of the verse.

Code:

Acts 4:1-2 Ans as they spake unto the people, (WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE) the priests, and the captain of the temple, (THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS) and the Sadducees, came upon them, vs 2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. Matt. 22: 23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, vs. 41 While the Pharisees (MORE JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS) were gathered to gether, Jesus asked them, vs 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. (THEY DON/T BELIEVE HE IS WHO HE IS. He is just a teacher or preacher). Matt. 23:1-39 To mucch to type.

Now to answere you questions. What Jesus taught to the Jews IS BEING TAUGHT TO YOU AND IT HAS NO BARRING ON YOU. It is strictly for the Jews.Matt. 10:5-7.

Code:

These twelve Jesus sent fourth, and COMMANDED THEM, SAYING go NOT INTO THE WAY OF THE GENTILES, AND INTO ANY CITY OF THE SAMARITANS ENTER YE NOT: VS 6 But go rather to the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. vs 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. This is not a call to the Gentiles. The sermon on the mount Matt: ch 5-ch7 Is the Earthly message to the Jews in the mellinum. It is not for Christians. Again I'v got to say the Jewish laws and Christianity do not mix.

If you really want to understand the Sermon on the Mount you should read the book Jesus of Nazereth by Pope Benedict XVI.

katy · Mar 2, 2008

thistle said:
If you really want to understand the Sermon on the Mount you should read the book Jesus of Nazereth by Pope Benedict XVI.

Yes, I just finished that part and thought the same thing.

Fidelis · Mar 2, 2008

Lev23 said:
Come on, will ya? Grow up.

If you have to result to insults to make your points, my friend, it is you who needs to grow up.

This would be like me on a purgatory thread stating-“Most Catholics I know do not believe in purgatory.” etc., etc.

Except that there *is *a definite and clear official Church teaching whereas in Protestantism, there is no such thing as a definite and clear official Church teaching on anything. As Martin Luther said, “There are as many interpretations as there are heads.”

I don’t know ONE catholic of any type or protestant of any type that does not believe that the sermon on the mount is applicable to their life in Christ today.

With all due respect, you need to get out more and/or generally expand your circle of contacts.

trogiah · Mar 3, 2008

danandirma said:
I have been talking with my dad about the Bible, he is not Catholic. He thinks Jesus sermon on the mount is only fr the jews.??? where is he getting this from?

blessing to you all
YBIC
Dan

ie…
to read it. I know you want to stay just in the Bible, BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE READING.The Jewish religion is a false religion and any church that holds to their views is a false religion, it is not the christian religion. If yoou don’t know you can’t grow.

when you read the bible slow down take 1/2 of the verse at a time. Ask your self what is it that he is trying to tell me? Once you have absorbed it, then go on to the rest of the verse.

Acts 4:1-2 Ans as they spake unto the people, (WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE) the priests, and the captain of the temple, (THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS) and the Sadducees, came upon them,
vs 2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

Matt. 22: 23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection,

vs. 41 While the Pharisees (MORE JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS) were gathered to gether, Jesus asked them,

vs 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. (THEY DON/T BELIEVE HE IS WHO HE IS. He is just a teacher or preacher).

Matt. 23:1-39 To mucch to type.

Now to answere you questions. What Jesus taught to the Jews IS BEING TAUGHT TO YOU AND IT HAS NO BARRING ON YOU. It is strictly for the Jews.Matt. 10:5-7.

These twelve Jesus sent fourth, and COMMANDED THEM, SAYING go NOT INTO THE WAY OF THE GENTILES, AND INTO ANY CITY OF THE SAMARITANS ENTER YE NOT:
VS 6 But go rather to the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.
vs 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. This is not a call to the Gentiles.

The sermon on the mount Matt: ch 5-ch7 Is the Earthly message to the Jews in the mellinum. It is not for Christians. Again I’v got to say the Jewish laws and Christianity do not mix.

The Sermon on the Mount is (in my opinion) one of the most profound, significant, and beautiful sections of the Bible. I don’t think it has an equal or anything close in any other words ever written.

I haven’t always felt that way but as time passes I become more certain of it.

That being said, I think the many parts of the Sermon on the Mount were written by a Jewish person with a Jewish audience at the time. That does not mean (to me) that someone who is not Jewish can’t get a great deal from it.

Much of the Sermon on the mount is clarification, correction and/or reaffirmation of earlier Jewish laws. Particularly the Ten Commandments. Then and now the Ten Commandments could be appreciated by Jews and nonJews for their importance in running a stable society - as well as a faith.

Jesus did begin his ministry by speaking to Jews. Actually he spent almost all of it in that particular ministry because that was his calling. But he know that, by the Grace of God, the news of God’s kingdom would be taken to all nations. And so we all have the benefit of the Sermon on the Mount. Thank God.

Jim

danandirma · Mar 4, 2008

No you are wrong. I am not trying to tell you what is wrong with the Catholic religion. I am trying to tell you what tis wrong with the Jewish religion. In stead of worying about what I will say about the Catholic, worry about what is it that the Jews are teaching.

Now about taking bits and pieces. This is taking bits and pieces (its called verse snatching) THE BIBLE SAID THERE IS NO GOD! In Psalms 14:1 the second half, if you read the whole verse it doesn’t say that at all.

When something is backed up by 2 or more accounts, there is no way you can call this bits and pecies. Religion Matt: ch. 6 - Luke ch. 11 and 12 - Luke ch. 16 - Luke ch. 18 - Luke ch. 20. Now Matt: ch. 23 (THE LEVEN OF THE PHARISEES) this is what is wrong with the Jewish religion. You should have been asking me what is it that they are teaching? What is it that they are not teaching. Matt: 11:28-30 this is called SOLE REST, it is a personal invitation. Matt: 15:1-20 This is false teaching.

The Gospel of Matthew, Mark and John. Matt. the train of thought is the preserving of the blood line, the Messiah- the King og the Jews. Mark the line of thought the servent he listens - obeys - rightway. He is identified to his person the suffering servent. Luke to the son of man, his humanity. John the emphisis is to the Son of God.

Now a question for you. What is the Gospel? Where is it at?

here is somethig for you to think about 11 Timothy 2:15 Hmmmmmm???

Now Jerome. who sent the Apostles to the Gentiles and Samaritans. Not one of the 12 Apostles was ever sent to the Gentiles nor did they teach to them, Jesus did to the woman at the well.

Now to read and interperit the Bible you have to read it in the time it was written. Not in todays time. Matt. 28:19 in that time it was physicaly impossible to teach the whole world and every nation. Most of the world was unknown to them. I am not saying Jesus contradicted him self. They had on access to trains boats plains or horses. Their world was what a man could walk in a weeks time.

Ok were am I going, you still have no clue. How did I get here? I did not learn it from a preacher or out of a book other than the Bible. Maybe you could say it it from experiences.

till all his work is done? Who is doing his work today?

please help me pull him back to the truth.

YBIC
Dan

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