servile work

[angell1]

while looking for a good definition of servile work, I came across this site

holycrossseminary.com/catholic_FAQs_catechism_pg_3.htm

you can read the relevant section, since it is rather long. but essentially it is saying that the intent does not change the nature of the work so there are things we shouldn’t do, even if we personally find them restful or if we do it for charity

this is the previous canon law

On feast days of precept, Mass is to be heard; there is an abstinence from servile work, legal acts, and likewise, unless there is a special indult or legitimate customs provide otherwise, from public trade, shopping, and other public buying and selling [CIC(1917) can 1248].

but the current catechism doesn’t even use the term servile work anymore. it only says works and affairs that hinder the worship owed to god.

I know there are no more strict prohibitions on specific activities, but if something used to be prohibited, doesn’t it mean that it is not really good for sunday naturally?

I’m just really confused as to which parts of this are doctrinal and which parts are disciplinary.

is there something intrinsic about shopping that caused to be prohibited, for example? is it wrong for sunday in general because it is materialistic and we shouldn’t be focused on buying things? but now we consider it as leisure. is it only a sin if the church specifically says it is and when she doesn’t, it’s not a sin?

I guess it wasn’t just the protestant blue laws that prohibited this kind of thing

historically, what were common things to do on sundays, for example, in the middle ages or renaissance? I know the early Christians were less strict because they lived in a mainly pagan society where they couldn’t really take sundays off.

I’m just trying to understand things in context. the catechism gives a lot of room for interpretation, something could hinder someone for god and be different for another person. and yes, I’ve read st. john Paul II’s dies domini, which I find quite vague as well.

any help is appreciated. thanks

 

[Bonnie]

The current Canon Law abrogates all former Canon Laws.

If you want to avoid doing something as a personal act of devotion, go with it. If not, don’t worry about it.

 

[pianistclare]

How is this affecting your life angel?You know the answer. Give the Lord his due on Sundays. Rest. Relax. Reflect. Work only if you must to live. Policemen, physicians, catechists…all work on Sundays and don’t sin.
Why is this a problem? I think you’ve asked this over and over. How can it still be source of “confusion”.What kind of servile work ate you personally doing?
What does your confessor say?
How about your spiritual director?

 

[underacloud]

What does your confessor say?
How about your spiritual director?

Don’t worry about them. Strangers on the internet usually have the correct answer to any given question.

 

[angell1]

How is this affecting your life angel?You know the answer. Give the Lord his due on Sundays. Rest. Relax. Reflect. Work only if you must to live. Policemen, physicians, catechists…all work on Sundays and don’t sin.
Why is this a problem? I think you’ve asked this over and over. How can it still be source of “confusion”.What kind of servile work ate you personally doing?
What does your confessor say?
How about your spiritual director?

still waiting on that. the priest I asked said we can discuss the possibility of it after the ordinations of the new deacons

 

[angell1]

How is this affecting your life angel?You know the answer. Give the Lord his due on Sundays. Rest. Relax. Reflect. Work only if you must to live. Policemen, physicians, catechists…all work on Sundays and don’t sin.
Why is this a problem? I think you’ve asked this over and over. How can it still be source of “confusion”.What kind of servile work ate you personally doing?
What does your confessor say?
How about your spiritual director?

I’m not necessarily doing servile work.

but I’m thinking along the lines of non-essentials, like stores. I know, everyone has said it’s not a sin to buy something but was wondering why it was prohibited in the past

 

[Mary_Estelle]

For those that work in stores-they would probably rather be home resting, going to church or being with family. Instead they are being servile-providing services for those that can only do the necessary things in life on a Sunday. If you try to rationalize everything and intellectualize everything-you will miss out on the intent of the Scriptures and Canons. BTW, didn’t Jesus say it was OK to pull your donkey or oxen from the ditch? And didn’t he and his followers pick corn on the Lords Day? Nit picking every little glitch in life just isn’t the way to go. Just my opinion.

 

[Mary_Estelle]

Angel, you are so lucky and blessed to be able to go to a store and buy what you need or go out to eat, go to a relaxing event of choice and be free to practice your religion anyway you want; I hope it is always so. You are so blessed, whereas so many can not even conceive of what we have. Remember that old saying; “don’t sweat the small things” because the Lord never intended us not to have a little joy and happiness. Peace.

 

[pensmama87]

I’m not necessarily doing servile work.

but I’m thinking along the lines of non-essentials, like stores. I know, everyone has said it’s not a sin to buy something but was wondering why it was prohibited in the past

Remember that, in English-speaking North America, cultural norms have never been Catholic. So, “it used to be like this way back when, because the Bible said so,” is going to reflect Protestant thinking a lot of the time.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m not necessarily doing servile work.

but I’m thinking along the lines of non-essentials, like stores. I know, everyone has said it’s not a sin to buy something but was wondering why it was prohibited in the past

If you are caring for a relative with wounds, that is a necessity to buy clean bandages.
You’re trying to fit a many pronged plug into a simple outlet.

Common sense. Try it.

 

[angell1]

If you are caring for a relative with wounds, that is a necessity to buy clean bandages.
You’re trying to fit a many pronged plug into a simple outlet.

Common sense. Try it.

I did say nonessentials, didn’t I?

as in shopping with your mom, for fun, because she enjoys it

like I’ve said, holy priests, apologist and lay people have a range of answers ranging from not sinful, don’t worry about it, to mortal sin, and everything in between

again, I’m not really concerned about jobs that are absolutely required, like doctors eTc… obviously that is different

 

[angell1]

Remember that, in English-speaking North America, cultural norms have never been Catholic. So, “it used to be like this way back when, because the Bible said so,” is going to reflect Protestant thinking a lot of the time.

well, it did use to be in canon law…

 

[pianistclare]

I did say nonessentials, didn’t I?

as in shopping with your mom, for fun, because she enjoys it

like I’ve said, holy priests, apologist and lay people have a range of answers ranging from not sinful, don’t worry about it, to mortal sin, and everything in between

again, I’m not really concerned about jobs that are absolutely required, like doctors eTc… obviously that is different

Again, if you know the answer, why is this troubling you?

 

[angell1]

Again, if you know the answer, why is this troubling you?

it’s troubling me because I don’t know if I really know the answer. why do you think I keep asking?

this is what scruples does. it’s a constant “what if I’m wrong?” or “what if what others tell me is wrong?” or “this doesn’t seem sinful to me but what if it’s mortal sin?”

shopping is no big deal, it’s leisure
it’s not a sin but try to avoid it because it’s not the best activity for sunday
you shouldn’t do it unless it’s an emergency
it’s mortal sin

some pretty big extremes for someone who is trying to judge correctly. priests response included

judging from your responses, it seems like you lean towards it not really being ok. but I’m not sure if that’s really what you mean

 

[pianistclare]

it’s troubling me because I don’t know if I really know the answer. why do you think I keep asking?

this is what scruples does. it’s a constant “what if I’m wrong?” or “what if what others tell me is wrong?” or “this doesn’t seem sinful to me but what if it’s mortal sin?”

shopping is no big deal, it’s leisure
it’s not a sin but try to avoid it because it’s not the best activity for sunday
you shouldn’t do it unless it’s an emergency
it’s mortal sin

some pretty big extremes for someone who is trying to judge correctly. priests response included

judging from your responses, it seems like you lean towards it not really being ok. but I’m not sure if that’s really what you mean

No, that’s not what I mean at all. Greed is a sin. very few people do actual servile work. Most work is due to necessity. I work in a parish. My students only come here on Sundays. So, I have to work on Sundays. It’s not a sin.

This is precisely why you need a SD. You need to deal with these scruples.
My point is…why is this a matter of huge concern to you?
You’re in college. You live at home. You don’t drive.
You often argue for the sake of arguing under the guise of “I was just wondering, I’m troubled, I’m confused”.
You think up these scenarios that do not necessarily uplift your soul.
Legalism is like candy to the scrupulous.
Get some real, as in:IN REAL LIFE help, not a constant internet polling of anonymous people who will feed you as many answers as there are people.
You remain in our prayers.

 

[angell1]

No, that’s not what I mean at all. Greed is a sin. very few people do actual servile work. Most work is due to necessity. I work in a parish. My students only come here on Sundays. So, I have to work on Sundays. It’s not a sin.

This is precisely why you need a SD. You need to deal with these scruples.
My point is…why is this a matter of huge concern to you?
You’re in college. You live at home. You don’t drive.
You often argue for the sake of arguing under the guise of “I was just wondering, I’m troubled, I’m confused”.
You think up these scenarios that do not necessarily uplift your soul.
Legalism is like candy to the scrupulous.
Get some real, as in:IN REAL LIFE help, not a constant internet polling of anonymous people who will feed you as many answers as there are people.
You remain in our prayers.

ì
m asking because it does apply to me

for example, I don’t`really like shopping that much, by my mom does. she often wants me to go with her. or other friends.

it’s not really about greed, I rarely buy things for myself and if I do it’s nothing spectacular or expensive. or maybe I will get something I need, but do I need to get it on sunday? probably not, but its convenient if we’re already there

I just don`t know if the idea of retail in general on sunday is bad.

you teach catechism to students on sunday, `that’s pretty essential.

buying clothes or shoes or electronics, is not. though if done for someone else, I guess it could be considered charitable

I really didn`t think it was a sin until I started hearing that it was, so no, I’m not trying to argue for the sake of arguing

I `don’t seehow a leisurely shopping trip is sinful, it’s not like I’m going on a huge splurge or anything, that’s why i’m confused. but maybe it’s considered too worldly and materialistic, perhaps that’s why it used to be prohibited

 

[underacloud]

…“what if what others tell me is wrong?”…

How is asking internet strangers going to help you at all? If you have trouble with scruples, this is not the correct approach. Find a good spiritual director.

 

[pianistclare]

ì
m asking because it does apply to me

for example, I don’t`really like shopping that much, by my mom does. she often wants me to go with her. or other friends.
**We call that quality time with mom, just because. **

it’s not really about greed, I rarely buy things for myself and if I do it’s nothing spectacular or expensive. or maybe I will get something I need, but do I need to get it on sunday? probably not, but its convenient if we’re already there
**That’s called not wasting gas. **

I just don`t know if the idea of retail in general on sunday is bad.
Yes you do know that’s it in itself is not bad. Greed is bad. That is an attribute of a person, not a business. Nobody wants to work retail if they don’t have to, btw.

you teach catechism to students on sunday, `that’s pretty essential.

buying clothes or shoes or electronics, is not. though if done for someone else, I guess it could be considered charitable
**Gift giving is not sinful, neither is errand running. **
I really didn`t think it was a sin until I started hearing that it was, so no, I’m not trying to argue for the sake of arguing
**Again, who are these people that try to feed your scruples. Run the other way. **

I `don’t seehow a leisurely shopping trip is sinful, it’s not like I’m going on a huge splurge or anything, that’s why i’m confused. but maybe it’s considered too worldly and materialistic, perhaps that’s why it used to be prohibited

**Bingo. Don’t know how many more ways you can phrase it. **

**Again, you’ve already answered your own question.
Either you are reading form unreliable sites, or you’re reading too much into what you are reading. **

 

[angell1]

**Bingo. Don’t know how many more ways you can phrase it. **
**Again, you’ve already answered your otakewn question.
Either you are reading form unreliable sites, or you’re reading too much into what you are reading. **

in this particular case, it started with a priest’s homily, who said that we shouldn’t do anything that causes others to work, like eating out, shopping, well anything basically

but I was on a mission at that cathedral during the summer and his housekeeper was cooking him up meals on sundays so… not exactly sure how that’s any different

I think I need to learn to take things with a grain of salt sometimes, even if it comes from priests.

thanks again, clare, always appreciated

 

[pianistclare]

in this particular case, it started with a priest’s homily, who said that we shouldn’t do anything that causes others to work, like eating out, shopping, well anything basically

but I was on a mission at that cathedral during the summer and his housekeeper was cooking him up meals on sundays so… not exactly sure how that’s any different

I think I need to learn to take things with a grain of salt sometimes, even if it comes from priests.

thanks again, clare, always appreciated

You are in our prayers. Hopefully your Spiritual Director can help you with the scruples.