Setback for Prolifers in Spain

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LittleSoldier

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This morning I read the following:

Spanish parliament approves new liberal abortion law:

The Spanish parliament has approved new legislation that establishes a woman’s “right” to abortion and eliminates all restrictions on abortion during the first 14 weeks of pregnancy.

The new law also allows 16-year-old girls to obtain abortions without their parents’ consent.
The bill, advanced by the government of Prime Minister José Zapatero, was strongly opposed by the country’s Catholic bishops, who warned that no Catholic legislator could vote for the bill in good conscience. . . .

[bolding mine]

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=5558

This link will also lead to links for related stories.

One of these related stories clarifies what is meant by allowing 16 year-old girls to obtain abortions without parental consent:

“It was among the bill’s most controversial elements. In the end, the government amended it so that** minors must inform their parents or legal guardian if they plan to undergo an abortion, but do not need their permission. They are, however, exempt from this requisite if they can show that fulfilling it would expose them to violence within their family, threats or coercion.”**

[bolding mine]

msnbc.msn.com/id/35565952/ns/world_news-europe/

Any comments? I do request that we show respect for all persons involved in this thread, as we are all loved children of God.

The only absolute rule I am laying down right from the start is that debating “person,” “personhood,” or any other terms involving whether an unborn (or born) child is a person is not appropriate and is off-topic, with a possible exception if a related news story uses these terms. I’ve found that semantic arguments about these terms tend to sway focus from the real topic and turn the thread into a literal war on words. Thank you!

Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
 
A similar law passed in France a couple of years ago but strangely the media don’t talk about it: you can abort your baby throughout the 9 nine months of a pregnancy if you provide 2 doctors certificates. It targets specifically Down’s Syndrome and all babies diagnosed with a genetic disorder. In France, they don’t call it an abortion but a “medical interruption of pregnancy”. Lord, Have Mercy Upon Us.
 
The term “abortion” actually applies to all losses of a pregnancy, what is more commonly called “miscarriage” is spontaneous abortion. So most people misuse the term “abortion” to mean one specific type of abortion.
 
The term “abortion” actually applies to all losses of a pregnancy, what is more commonly called “miscarriage” is spontaneous abortion. So most people misuse the term “abortion” to mean one specific type of abortion.
“What does “abortion” even mean? Historically, someone “aborted” the take-off of a rocket; soldiers “aborted” a mission; generals “aborted” a battle plan. One does not “abort” a human being. Humans are slaughtered, slain, executed, destroyed, exterminated, and killed. The child-killers never, ever, talk about babies, children, death, dying, or killing. They deny them all.”

Randall Terry, “A Humble Plea” page 22
ahumbleplea.com/
 
As I stated, since “abortion” means any loss of pregnancy, the use of all those terms is inaccurate. Natural death warrants no moral outrage.
 
The term “abortion” actually applies to all losses of a pregnancy, what is more commonly called “miscarriage” is spontaneous abortion. So most people misuse the term “abortion” to mean one specific type of abortion.
It is true that “miscarriages” are really spontaneous abortions, but I have never met anyone who had a spontaneous abortion and called it an abortion. Everyone I know has called this tragedy a miscarriage or a spontaneous abortion. Not just abortion. Never.

Also, I don’t believe the term “abortion” is being misused in the article. Women can’t go out and procure spontaneous abortions. If they did, the abortions wouldn’t be spontaneous. This article is dealing specifically with procured abortion. Giving women the right to have spontaneous abortions doesn’t make sense.

Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
 
As I stated, since “abortion” means any loss of pregnancy, the use of all those terms is inaccurate. Natural death warrants no moral outrage.
Doc, with all due respect, what is your point? We all know the definition of “abortion” as used in the article. We all know what “procured abortions” are. Are you trying to say that abortions procured as a means to kill an unborn child are moral and ethical?

Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
 
As I stated, since “abortion” means any loss of pregnancy, the use of all those terms is inaccurate. Natural death warrants no moral outrage.
Doc, I know exactly what you are referring as far as medical jargon. But still, a miscarriage or a procured abortion are not the loss of a pregnancy, they are the loss of a child.
 
My point is that calling a therapeutic abortion a medical interruption of pregnancy is not obfuscation. Because people now equate “abortion” with “therapeutic abortion”, they think any other terminology is some sort of Orwellian plot.
 
My point is that calling a therapeutic abortion a medical interruption of pregnancy is not obfuscation. Because people now equate “abortion” with “therapeutic abortion”, they think any other terminology is some sort of Orwellian plot.
Regardless of whether it is an obfuscation or not, I do object to your use of the term “therapeutic abortion”. Abortion is hardly therapeutic. The only time it could possibly be considered therapeutic is if the mother’s life was in danger prior to the abortion. That said, I still have my doubts about whether or not such an abortion is actually therapeutic. The reason is because abortion causes mental/emotional distress to women 9 times out of 10 and often causes long term mental/emotional scarring.
 
My point is that calling a therapeutic abortion a medical interruption of pregnancy is not obfuscation. Because people now equate “abortion” with “therapeutic abortion”, they think any other terminology is some sort of Orwellian plot.
Then I suggest that your “point” is pointless and I suspect you are attempting to hijack this thread for some personal agenda (if I am wrong, please correct me). Please don’t try to play word games.

Orwellian plot? Hardly. We are not discussing an outdated book. We are discussing abortion (specifically, procured abortion).

I think it would be charitable if you lowered your “abstruse word usage.” Quite frankly, it does not make you appear educated, simply desperate.

May we please remain on topic? Thank you. 🙂

Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
 
Little Soldier, I don’t dumb down for anyone. What reading age do you suggest I write for? 8?
And I am not disposed to be charitable when people aren’t charitable to me.
I was responding to a point being made, which is my right just like every member of the forum. I don’t need your permission to make a point.
 
Little Soldier, I don’t dumb down for anyone. What reading age do you suggest I write for? 8?
And I am not disposed to be charitable when people aren’t charitable to me.
I was responding to a point being made, which is my right just like every member of the forum. I don’t need your permission to make a point.
It is true that you don’t need my permission to make a point. And I can respond to any “point” you are attempting to make, and make points of my own.

I never said you had to “dumb down for anyone.”

Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
 
Little Soldier, I don’t dumb down for anyone. What reading age do you suggest I write for? 8?
And I am not disposed to be charitable when people aren’t charitable to me.
I was responding to a point being made, which is my right just like every member of the forum. I don’t need your permission to make a point.
Doc, I want to apologize for my uncharitable post. The reason I posted what I did is that I find it frustrating when people use obtuse language. I think it stalls communication. I know that at least one poster here is a young teenager (I’m not sure of the minimum age required for a person to join, but I believe it is 13 years).

But that doesn’t excuse my lack of kindness. Please accept my apology. I will try to not let it happen again.

Sorry…😦
 
As I stated, since “abortion” means any loss of pregnancy,
Hiyas:)
Actually, it means loss of life, to me. Pro-abortionist seem to want to sterilize the wording.
the use of all those terms is inaccurate.
Good point:thumbsup: Lets call abortion on demand …murder of innocent life.
Natural death warrants no moral outrage.
Agreed, but we aren’t talking about ‘natural death’ , here.

I hope this helps.
 
That’s a tautology.
Hiyas:)
You being a professed Christian… I’d have to ask you…What would Jesus call it?:rolleyes:

I’ll stand by my definition…Abortion on demand - is murder of innocents.
Tautology (logic)
Code:
   			**From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia**
Code:
  	 									Jump to: [navigation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_%28logic%29#column-one), [search](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_%28logic%29#search(name removed by moderator)ut)
  	 			This article is about a technical notion in formal logic.  For use of redundant language, see [tautology (rhetoric)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_%28rhetoric%29).
In logic, a tautology (from the Greek word ταυτολογία) is a formula which is true in every possible interpretation. The philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein first applied the term to tautologies of propositional logic in 1921; it had been used earlier to refer to rhetorical tautologies, and continues to be used in that alternate sense today.
A formula is satisfiable if it is true under at least one interpretation, and thus a tautology is a formula whose negation is unsatisfiable. Unsatisfiable statements are also known, formally, as contradictions. A formula that is neither a tautology nor a contradiction is said to be logically contingent. Such a formula can be made either true or false based on the values assigned to its propositional variables. The double turnstile notation http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/4/c/3/4c382c3400549c82a9aacdb16c096f3d.png is used to indicate that S is a tautology. The tee symbol http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/9/c/09c35e480ff978d5868d6e09f324f913.png is sometimes used to denote an arbitrary tautology, with the dual symbol http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/4/6/2462ef886428ee7d949936d41281f003.png (falsum) representing an arbitrary contradiction.
Tautologies are a key concept in propositional logic, where a tautology is defined as a propositional formula that is true under any possible Boolean valuation of its propositional variables. A key property of tautologies in propositional logic is that an effective method exists for testing whether a given formula is always satisfied (or, equivalently, whether its negation is unsatisfiable).
The definition of tautology can be extended to sentences in predicate logic, which may contain quantifiers, unlike sentences of propositional logic. In propositional logic, there is no distinction between a tautology and a logically valid formula. In the context of predicate logic, many authors define a tautology to be a sentence that can be obtained by taking a tautology of propositional logic and uniformly replacing each propositional variable by a first-order formula (one formula per propositional variable). The set of such formulas is a proper subset of the set of logically valid sentences of predicate logic (which are the sentences that are true in every model).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic

Yeppers!! I think Jesus would use it
 
My point is that the definition of murder includes the innocence of the victim.
 
My point is that the definition of murder includes the innocence of the victim.
Hiyas:)

I got your point:thumbsup:

I’m just not willing to play word games. Not at the cost of Abortion on demand.

I think because I was redundant in my sentence structure…EVERY ONE got my point:)
 
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