SETI's Challenge to Religion: Would encountering intelligence elsewhere in the universe be a problem for anthropocentric religions?

[ConstantineTG]

I think the only theological problem of an alien species is, if they are fallen like we do, do we start helping each other on our paths to salvation? Or pehaps we have different paths? We inherited sin from Adam. They may have their own version of Adam. So the Sacraments we have are for us. Do we share these with them? Did Jesus share in their “humantiy”? Are they to be saved as well?

The best part of course if some alien species recognize Jesus as well. I wonder what all these atheists would say?

 

[SedesDomi]

I think the only theological problem of an alien species is, if they are fallen like we do, do we start helping each other on our paths to salvation? Or pehaps we have different paths? We inherited sin from Adam. They may have their own version of Adam. So the Sacraments we have are for us. Do we share these with them? Did Jesus share in their “humantiy”? Are they to be saved as well?

The best part of course if some alien species recognize Jesus as well. I wonder what all these atheists would say?

What if the aliens are allergic to bread and wine?

 

[JohnDamian]

What if the aliens are allergic to bread and wine?

I must say that would be particularily ironic if their allergy was fatal; as it “becomes for us the bread of life”.

 

[JackVk]

I think the only theological problem of an alien species is, if they are fallen like we do, do we start helping each other on our paths to salvation? Or pehaps we have different paths? We inherited sin from Adam. They may have their own version of Adam. So the Sacraments we have are for us. Do we share these with them? Did Jesus share in their “humantiy”? Are they to be saved as well?

The best part of course if some alien species recognize Jesus as well. I wonder what all these atheists would say?

Maybe they are sinless, and God used our planet as an insane asylum for all of His creations.

 

[Areopagite]

I think your post was well thought out and raised some interesting points.

I do think though that you missed the point on your numbers 3 & 4. I can imagine aliens having their own Church and perhaps their own incarnate savior but if it originated from the same God we worship then only the externals should be different. The core teachings and moral code should be identical since we believe God doesn’t or can’t change then why would he have a different set of morals and values for us and one for a civilization a hundred light years away?

Depending on what you mean by “core teachings and moral code” I may agree with you. However, I think there are many different kinds of possible sacraments that God could institute, and the alien Church may have been given a different set. Same for their Scripture. They may have a salvation history different from our own. A lot of the core teachings of Christianity could have happened differently. These things may differ for the alien Church and may be more attuned to their alien nature … but it is still true, of course, that we would ultimately worship the same God.

I think the Catholic Church would have the moral authority to determine what teachings are true and what potentially aren’t of the aliens.

If you believe that the aliens could have had their own incarnation of God into their race, then the Catholic Church could not determine if that incarnation was real or not, since public revelation does not speak of it. The alien’s salvation history would be different if they have a different strand of original sin from a different ancestor, and thus they would have different divine revelation and hence it would not fall under the jurisdiction of the human Catholic Church.

We believe the Church has authority here on earth to do the very same thing. It wouldn’t take a private revelation to determine any such thing either. I mean right now private revelations don’t hold any particular authority over believers so why would one then become the arbitrator of what is true in the alien religion?

Sorry, I wasn’t very clear. I said the only way a human could figure out which alien was an incarnation of God was through a private revelation because we cannot know through out own public revelation in the human Catholic Church. However, the aliens would be given their own public revelation that would indicate which alien had been an incarnation of God. Does that make sense?

If aliens exist or not the role of the Catholic Church would remain the same. They would be needed to make decisions on the veracity of the moral code and teachings in the alien religion.

Well … I guess you could say they could pass judgment on the moral codes of aliens but they could not pass judgment on their faith, for the Catholic Church has not been given the data on which alien faith is correct.

From a theological/philisophical, and scientific standpoint, I would be extremely surprised to find intelligent life, endowed with a supernatural soul, elsewhere in the universe.

Why would it be surprising from a philosophical standpoint?

1. Areopagite gave a pretty good analysis, but it is flawed in one important point. There could not have been more than one incarnation. We know the nature of Jesus, God and Man. This is an absolute belief of our faith. It is not God and Man and 15 other life forms.

I never said that Jesus was God, Man, and possibly other things. Jesus is only God and man. However, I am saying that an alien incarnation could happen, resulting in the hypostatic union of God and Alien (or whatever race they would be called). That wouldn’t be Jesus. But it would still be a Divine Person that has a created nature attached to it.

And if you don’t think there can be other incarnations, then you say that God becomes limited by a created thing. Why can’t God take on other created natures … why does he necessarily have to stop after the first one?

In any case, Aquinas believed that God could perform multiple incarnations.
newadvent.org/summa/4003.htm#article7

1. I suppose there could be intelligent life, not endowed with supernatural souls, but this seems strange, does it not?

What do you mean by supernatural soul here?

 

[Soulewolf]

What do you base your idealistic view of other intelligent life on? Why would they be so morally superior to us?

well the idea is that they have developed a type of ship that can travel vast amounts of interstellar distances right?

This would involve

A: a system to which you can “fold” the fabric of space time

B: a system through which one would travel faster than the speed of light (that is a way to remove mass from massive objects which would first require the discovery of the theoretical Higgs boson)

C: a form of antimatter energy system

All three of which have the capacity to completely eliminate a planet. If they have advanced their technology to this point without destroying themselves then it is apparent that their moral systems are superior to ours as one of our biggest fears now a days is that a terrorist organization got a hold of weapons of mass destruction, let alone the mere existence of these kinds of weapons on this planet.

 

[Eclogue]

Interpreting “Man” to mean merely “homo sapiens” is rather narrow, don’t you think? It seems to me that any being possessing a human intellect and will could fall under the category of “mankind,” even if they are strange creatures from a distant planet. To exclude Mr. Spock from “mankind,” because technically he is not a “man,” makes as much sense as excluding Mother Theresa, since she is not a “man” either.

At least, that’s my opinion. Be very careful with ancient words.

 

[ChadS]

Sorry, I wasn’t very clear. I said the only way a human could figure out which alien was an incarnation of God was through a private revelation because we cannot know through out own public revelation in the human Catholic Church. However, the aliens would be given their own public revelation that would indicate which alien had been an incarnation of God. Does that make sense?

Well … I guess you could say they could pass judgment on the moral codes of aliens but they could not pass judgment on their faith, for the Catholic Church has not been given the data on which alien faith is correct.

My thinking was that the Catholic Church has a living Magesterium that is guided by the Holy Spirit. While the exact way God’s revelation to aliens may play out is not part of our public revelation I believe the Catholic Church is more than equipped to be able to pass judgment on their belief system. Just like the ancient Israelites were drawn into worshipping the gods of their neighbors there would be humans that as soon as we made contact with aliens would be drawn to their religion and belief systems. The Catholic Church would have a legitimate role in examining their beliefs and making some sort of determination on their validity.

Obviously I think that the externals of worship, scriptures and their salvation history would appear different from ours, however at the core and very base, if they are indeed worshipping the same God we are, they should be same. Jesus teaches us that the greatest commandment is to love God with all your soul and all of your heart, I can’t imagine that an alien religion that worships the same God as us would have a different commandment.

Of course until we actually find intelligent life on another planet this is all speculation, but at least it’s fun.

ChadS

 

[tafan]

Interpreting “Man” to mean merely “homo sapiens” is rather narrow, don’t you think? It seems to me that any being possessing a human intellect and will could fall under the category of “mankind,” even if they are strange creatures from a distant planet. To exclude Mr. Spock from “mankind,” because technically he is not a “man,” makes as much sense as excluding Mother Theresa, since she is not a “man” either.

At least, that’s my opinion. Be very careful with ancient words.

I think it is fair, as Catholics, to interpret man as descendants of Adam and Eve.

 

[SedesDomi]

I think it is fair, as Catholics, to interpret man as descendants of Adam and Eve.

But no one knows if Adam and Eve were Homo sapiens sapiens or some other species of the genus Homo. The Church has not decided on that issue.

 

[DaveBj]

My take on this has been to agree with Ellie Arroway’s father in Contact–“If it’s just us, seems like an awful waste of space.” (Or words to that effect; I don’t remember the exact quote. And this is one of the few areas where I agree with Carl Sagan.

To think that sinful, broken, weak, imperfect humanity is the only possible in-His-image creation from God seems to be rather arrogant.

On the other hand, it is God’s space. If He wanted all that just so we could look up and go, “Wow!”, He can do that.

DaveBj

 

[tonyrey]

My take on this has been to agree with Ellie Arroway’s father in Contact–“If it’s just us, seems like an awful waste of space.”

Human notions of temporal and spatial economy are completely irrelevant to the nature of reality.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

The vatican has already spoken on this subject.

It would not pose a problem for Catholicism. There is a great leap of logic from:

1. Aliens exist.

to:

1. Catholicism is false.

Additionally, if intelligent lifeforms possessed the technology to get to this planet, then they would, out of necessity developed an advanced form of morality because they have not destroyed themselves and yet had the technology to do so. Evangelization of these advanced lifeforms would not pose much difficulty since the morality of Jesus Christ is the most advanced compilation ever conceived. If everyone followed the morality of the New Testament, we would effectively be living in a Utopia.

Good post—but a question—

Wouldn’t the idea of “evangelization” of aliens be sure to invite ridicule from many quarters???
How are supposed to “convert” apparently non-human aliens that would almost certainly have a “non-human” culture and reality to a “human-centered” theology???

I don’t remember the Bishop’s name but there was one some years who, when asked about this same subject blurted out that one of the first things that would be considered would be the manner in which we would “evangelize” an extraterrestrial race.

He got derisive laughter from a lot of people for that statement.

At the very least it would be considered the height of arrogance and human pride.

NOT saying this wouldn’t be feasible NECESSARILY—but SHOULD it be done???

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Interpreting “Man” to mean merely “homo sapiens” is rather narrow, don’t you think? It seems to me that any being possessing a human intellect and will could fall under the category of “mankind,” even if they are strange creatures from a distant planet. To exclude Mr. Spock from “mankind,” because technically he is not a “man,” makes as much sense as excluding Mother Theresa, since she is not a “man” either.

At least, that’s my opinion. Be very careful with ancient words.

Actually, Mr. Spock IS Half-Human. His mother was human, remember???

The fascination with the character has always been his struggle to balance his “Vulcan” side with his “Human” side. Usually the Vulcan won out, but He gave in to his human side enough times to qualify him as Human. He also lived mostly around Humans so that reinforces his Humanity.

 

[SedesDomi]

NOT saying this wouldn’t be feasible NECESSARILY—but SHOULD it be done???

St. Paul did say something about the whole of Creation groaning because of the sin of Adam and Eve. So the whole of Creation would supposedly include any intelligent beings on other planets.

 

[cassini]

Whewell notwithstanding, the discovery of extra-terrestrial life would be no more earth-shattering than the confirmation of evolutionary theory.

A great question. The day extra-terrestrial life is found, I’m outa Catholicism. But there is not much chance of that, You see extra-terrestrial life is totally a product of another fairy tale, E… For 30,40,50 years the same Es have sought ‘life out there’. It is a MATHEMATICAL certainty, they say. Its only a matter of TIME until they find it. Rome is full of E-believers, so of course they are making up a theology before it happens. The fact that not a trace of life has been found on the planets means they must go out to fairy-land, the invisible planets around the stars. Now they can conjure up star-life, but we just cannot see it.

I’ll make a prediction. E suckers will continue to be taken in by the idea of terrestial life out there, but they will never actually see it. They will die being told, ‘some day we will find spiders and aliens out there’. But not in your lifetime, or yours, or yours. Nevertheless all Es will die believing that life possible lies out there.

Now I know Rome is looking and waiting for ETs, but something tells me the very idea is so alien - if you pardon the pun - to Catholicism, that it is repugnant to Revelation.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

St. Paul did say something about the whole of Creation groaning because of the sin of Adam and Eve. So the whole of Creation would supposedly include any intelligent beings on other planets.

I tend to agree—only soem would interpret “whole of creation” to mean “all that was known at the time these words were put down.” Before people even KNEW there would(maybe) be other beings in the Universe.

Some folks like to split hairs. Ultimately we don’t what the rest of “creation” feels about this. I guess we’ll have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

[Della]

A great question. The day extra-terrestrial life is found, I’m outa Catholicism. But there is not much chance of that, You see extra-terrestrial life is totally a product of another fairy tale, E… For 30,40,50 years the same Es have sought ‘life out there’. It is a MATHEMATICAL certainty, they say. Its only a matter of TIME until they find it. Rome is full of E-believers, so of course they are making up a theology before it happens. The fact that not a trace of life has been found on the planets means they must go out to fairy-land, the invisible planets around the stars. Now they can conjure up star-life, but we just cannot see it.

I subscribe to the Fermi paradox: Considering the age of the universe, and the mathematical probabilities you cited, then why is there no evidence for extraterrestrial life? Many in the scientific world are desperately hoping we aren’t alone. Why? Because they think it will prove everything they already want to believe. And why do they want to believe it? So they can justify their atheism. Oh yes, there’s a real movement behind this that is just itching to ditch the final vestiges of religion so humankind can run amok and do whatever they please without answering to anyone.

I’ll make a prediction. E suckers will continue to be taken in by the idea of terrestial life out there, but they will never actually see it. They will die being told, ‘some day we will find spiders and aliens out there’. But not in your lifetime, or yours, or yours. Nevertheless all Es will die believing that life possible lies out there.

Now I know Rome is looking and waiting for ETs, but something tells me the very idea is so alien - if you pardon the pun - to Catholicism, that it is repugnant to Revelation.

Well, I wouldn’t say “Rome is looking and waiting for ETs”. I think they are very wisely trying to steal some of the atheists’ thunder by embracing the possibility in order to show it wouldn’t matter one way or the other. I too think it a load of silliness that some have latched onto in order to think anything they please so they can do whatever they please. Human beings have been trying to dodge their obligations to God since Adam and Eve. Only transformation in Christ will cure that notion. Jesus will be the only “alien” we will see coming in the skies. He can’t come too soon for me!

 

[tafan]

But no one knows if Adam and Eve were Homo sapiens sapiens or some other species of the genus Homo. The Church has not decided on that issue.

But the church has defined that we are all descendant from the first two humans, homo-whatever that were endowed with supernatual souls. So it is safe to say that any alien life forms out there in space could not be included as part of mankind, as the previous poster had speculated.

 

[SedesDomi]

But the church has defined that we are all descendant from the first two humans, homo-whatever that were endowed with supernatual souls. So it is safe to say that any alien life forms out there in space could not be included as part of mankind, as the previous poster had speculated.

Any Aliens would not be Homo sapiens, but that does not mean that they could not be made in the “image and likeness” God, just like us.