Seventh Day Adventist Church and Abortion

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Djconklin,

You’re fighting a losing battle if you do not believe that the denomination Adventists pay tithe to isn’t pro-choice. The Executive Committee is the church’s highest executive organ, presently composed of the following members, from the highest echelons of every corner of the Adventist world church:

Executive Committee

GENERAL CONFERENCE MEMBERS
Administration:

President, Jan Paulsen.

General Vice Presidents, Lowell C. Cooper, Mark A. Finley, King-Yi Eugene Hsu, Gerry D. Karst, Armando Miranda, Pardon K. Mwansa, Michael L. Ryan, Ella S. Simmons, Ted N. C. Wilson.

Secretary, Matthew A. Bediako.

Undersecretary, Larry R. Evans.

Associate Secretaries, Rosa T. Banks, Agustin Galicia, G. T. Ng, Vernon B. Parmenter, Claude Sabot.

Treasurer, Robert E. Lemon.

Undertreasurer, Steven G. Rose.
Associate Treasurers, George O. Egwakhe, Jose R. Lizardo, Daisy J. F. Orion, Roy E. Ryan.

General Field Secretaries, Gary D. Krause, Brad Thorp. (Additional field secretaries as appointed by the General Conference Committee.)

Departmental Directors:
Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries, Martin W. Feldbush.
Children’s Ministries, Linda Mei Lin Koh.
Communication, Rajmund Dabrowski.
Education, C. Garland Dulan.
Family Ministries, Ronald M. Flowers.
Health Ministries, Allan R. Handysides.
Ministerial Association, James A. Cress.
Public Affairs and Religious Liberty, John Graz.
Publishing Ministries, Howard F. Faigao.
Sabbath School and Personal Ministries, Jonathan Kuntaraf.
Stewardship, Erika F. Puni.
Trust Services, Jeffrey K. Wilson.
Women’s Ministries, Heather-Dawn Small.
Youth Ministries, Baraka G. Muganda.

WORLD DIVISION MEMBERS

East-Central Africa Division
Administration:
President, Geoffrey G. Mbwana.
Secretary, Blasious M. Ruguri.
Treasurer, Philip Philipsen.
Union Presidents:
East African, Musyoka Paul Muasya.
East Congo, Etzer Obas.
Ethiopian, Alemu Haile Maruta.
Rwanda, Hesron Byilingiro.
Tanzania, Joshua K. Kajula.
Uganda, John Luga Wani.
West Congo, August de Clerc M. Ngalamulume.

Euro-Africa
Administration:
President, Ulrich W. Frikart.
Secretary, Gabriel E. Maurer.
Treasurer, Peter R. Kunze.
Union Presidents:
Czecho-Slovakian, Pavel Simek.
Franco-Belgian, Jacques Trujillo.
North German, Klaus-Juergen van Treeck.
Romanian, Teodor Hutanu.
South German, Guenther Machel.
Swiss, Denis P. Rosat.

Euro-Asia
Administration:
President, Artur A. Stele.
Secretary, Michael F. Kaminsky.
Treasurer, Guillermo E. Biaggi.
Union Presidents:
Caucasus, Pavel I. Liberanski.
East Russian, Victor A. Kozakov.
Moldova, Victor Alexeevich Lotka.
Southern, Rubin R. Ott.
Ukrainian, Vladimir A. Krupsky.
West Russian, Vassili D. Stoliar.

Inter-American
Administration:
President, Israel Leito.
Secretary, Juan O. Perla.
Treasurer, Filiberto M. Verduzco Avila.
Union Presidents:
Caribbean, Eugene F. Daniel.
Colombian, Eliseo Bustamante.
Cuban, Daniel Fontaine Marquez.
Dominican, Cesario Acevedo del Villar.
French Antilles-Guiana, Max-Rene Laurent.
Haitian, Theart St. Pierre.
Inter-Oceanic Mexican, Cesar Gomez.
Mid-Central American, Jose Alfredo Argueta.
North Central American, Mario Augusto Calderon.
North Mexican, Abner de los Santos.
Puerto Rican, Jose Alberto Rodriguez.
South Central American, Wilfredo Ruiz.
South Mexican, David Javier Perez.
Venezuela-Antilles, Julio A. Palacio.
West Indies, Patrick L. Allen.

North American
Administration:
President, Don C. Schneider.
Secretary, Roscoe J. Howard III.
Treasurer, Juan R. Prestol.
Union Presidents:
Atlantic, Donald G. King.
Canada, Seventh-day Adventist Church in, Daniel R. Jackson.
Columbia, David Weigley.
Lake, Walter L. Wright.
Mid-America, Dennis N. Carlson.
North Pacific, Jere D. Patzer.
Pacific, Thomas J. Mostert Jr.
Southern, Gordon L. Retzer.
Southwestern, Max A. Trevino.

…
 
Northern Asia-Pacific
Administration:
President, Jairyong Lee.
Secretary, Akeri Suzuki.
Treasurer, Donald W. Upson.
Union Presidents:
Chinese, James S. F. Wu.
Japan, Masaki Shoji.
Korean, Myung Kwan Hong.

South American
Administration:
President, Erton Carlos Kohler.
Secretary, Melchor A. Ferreyra.
Treasurer, Marino F. de Oliveira.
Union Presidents:
Austral, Bruno Alberto Raso.
Bolivia, Eric P. Monnier.
Central Brazil, Domingos de Souza.
Chile, Guido Rodolfo Quinteros.
East Brazil, Wandyr Mendes De Oliveira.
Ecuador, Leonel Lozano.
North Brazil, Marlinton Souza Lopes.
North Peru, Orlando Ramos.
Northeast Brazil, Geovani Souto de Queiroz.
South Brazil, Ignacio Luis Kalbermatter.
South Peru, Samuel R. Sandoval.
West Central Brazil, Helder Roger C. Silva.

South Pacific
Administration:
President, Laurie J. Evans.
Secretary, Barry D. Oliver.
Treasurer, Rodney G. Brady.
Union Presidents:
Australian, Chester G. Stanley.
New Zealand Pacific, Jerome P. Matthews.
Papua New Guinea, Thomas B. Davai.
Trans Pacific, Lawrence P. Tanabose.

Southern Africa-Indian Ocean
Administration:
President, Paul S. Ratsara.
Secretary, Solomon Maphosa.
Treasurer, Jannie Bekker.
Union Presidents:
Angola, Teodoro Elias.
Botswana, Paminus Machamire.
Indian Ocean, Samuel Ravonjiarivelo.
Malawi, Saustin Kazgeba Mfune.
Mozambique, Zeca Xavier.
Southern Africa, Francois Louw.
Zambia, Cornelius Mulenga Matandiko.
Zimbabwe, Evans Muvuti.

Southern Asia
Administration:
President, D. Ronald Watts.
Secretary, John Rathinaraj.
Treasurer, G. S. Robert Clive.
Union Presidents:
East-Central India, Choudampalli John.
Northeast India, Lalchansanga Colney.
Northern India, Hidayat Masih.
South-Central, Daniel Padmaraj.
Southeast India, S. Sundaram.
Southwest India, Samuel Stanley.
Western India, Gibeon Ebenezar Sharon.
Southern Asia-Pacific
Administration:
President, Alberto C. Gulfan Jr.
Secretary, Hendrik Sumendap.
Treasurer, Keith R. Heinrich.
Union Presidents:
Bangladesh, Siegfried G. Mayr.
Central Philippine, Agapito J. Catane Jr.
East Indonesia, Bobby Joutje Sepang.
Myanmar, Saw Muller Kyaw.
North Philippine, Abner S. Roque.
South Philippine, Remelito Aguilar Tabingo.
Southeast Asia, Ronald W. Townend.
West Indonesia, Johnny Lubis.

Trans-European
Administration:
President, Bertil A. Wiklander.
Secretary, Harald Wollan.
Treasurer, Johann E. Johannsson.
Union Presidents:
Adriatic, Branko Bistrovic.
Baltic, Valdis A. Zilgalvis.
British, Donald. W. McFarlane.
Finland, Atte Helminen.
Hungarian, Andras Szilvasi.
Middle East, Kjell Aune.
Netherlands, Reinder Bruinsma.
Norwegian, Tor Tjeransen.
Pakistan, Younis Masih.
Polish, Pawel Lazar.
South-East European, Miodrag Zivanovic.
Swedish, Bjorn Ottesen.
West-Central Africa Division
Administration:
President, Luka T. Daniel.
Secretary, Gilbert Wari.
Treasurer, Ceazar J. Hechanova.
Union Presidents
Central African, Sylvain Ballais.
Eastern Nigeria, G. C. Nwaogwugwu.
Ghana, Samuel A. Larmie.
North-Western Nigeria, Joseph Adebisi Ola.
Sahel, Guy Roger.
West African, Erkki Haapasalo.

EX OFFICIO MEMBERS
Adventist Development and Relief Agency International: Charles C. Sandefur Jr., President and Executive Director.
Adventist International Institute of Advanced Studies: Stephen R. Guptill, President.
Adventist Review: Bill Knott, Editor.
Adventist Risk Management, Incorporated: Robert L. Sweezey, President and Executive Director.
Adventist University of Africa: Brempong Owusu-Antwi, President.
Adult Sabbath School Bible Study Guide: Clifford Goldstein, Editor.
Adventist World Radio: Benjamin D. Schoun, President and Executive Director.
Andrews University: Niels-Erik A. Andreasen, President.
Archives and Statistics: Bert B. Haloviak, Director.
Biblical Research Institute: Angel M. Rodriguez, Director.
Christian Record Services, Incorporated: Larry J. Pitcher, President.
Geoscience Research Institute: L. James Gibson, Director.
Griggs University and International Academy: Donald R. Sahly, President.
International Health Food Association: Joel Zukovski, Director.
Loma Linda University: B. Lyn Behrens, President.
Loma Linda University Medical Center: B. Lyn Behrens, President.
Ministry Magazine: Nikolaus Satelmajer, Editor.
Oakwood College: Delbert W. Baker, President.
Pacific Press Publishing Association: Dale Galusha, President.
Past President of the General Conference: Neal C. Wilson.
Review and Herald Publishing Association: Robert S. Smith, President.
White Estate, Ellen G: Kenneth H. Wood, Chairman; James R. Nix, President.

…
 
ELECTED MEMBERS
Three lay persons from each division (without regard to membership):
East-Central Africa: L. Jeremiah Lima, Jeannette K. Matita, Lorna G. Okotto.
Euro-Africa: Rene Garcia, Carmen Ingeborg Schulz, Marius C. Sturz.
Euro-Asia: ___, Olga Pervanchuk, Vasile Rotaru.
Inter-American: Joan Y. Clarke, Rolando M. Giron, Dennis Soto.
North American: Shirley Chang, Carl P. Chin, Ruben Daniel Pechero.
Northern Asia-Pacific: Lisa Sangsook Choi, Joseph Hin-Chung Wong, Masao Yanaga.
South American: Milton S. Afonso, Jorge C. Echezarraga, Nair Costa Lessa.
South Pacific: Carolyn M. Catton, Roger E. Marshall, Mesake T. Senibulu.
Southern Africa-Indian Ocean: Lorna Cedras, Jose Miudo, Edith Mkawa.
Southern Asia: Mahesh D. Biloria, Michael N. A. Pedrin, Rita Salve.
Southern Asia-Pacific: Charles C. Ligan, Catharina S. Nangoy, Alex Rajakumar Ponniah.
Trans-European: Nevenka Cop, Nina K. H. Myrdal, Frensly Panneflek.
West-Central Africa: Veronique M. Mbio, Emmanuel K. Noudoda, Jael A. Yohanna.
One pastor from each division (without regard to membership):
East-Central Africa: Tatipanga San-me.
Euro-Africa: Ivan M. Nikolov.
Euro-Asia: Andrei Ten.
Inter-American: Aymer Sarria.
North American: Ralph E. Shelton.
Northern Asia-Pacific: Bookwon Chun.
South American: Andre dos Santos Vieira.
South Pacific: David Kila Gairo.
Southern Africa-Indian Ocean: Pedro D. Tatamelane.
Southern Asia: ___.
Southern Asia-Pacific: Orlando S. Deocades.
Trans-European: Ian Howard Sleeman.
West-Central Africa: Richard Asiedu Ntriakwah.
One additional church pastor or other front-line denominational employee for every 500,000 members or major fraction thereof beyond the first 500,000:
East-Central Africa: Jonathan Bizirema, Patrick M. Mulindwa, Ilunga Wazenga.
Inter-American: Esaie Auguste, N. Nathaniel DeLima, Jose Dorismar, Juan Carlos Duran.
North American: David C. Smith.
South American: Josias C. Almeida, Leonor Segunda Bustinza de Carbo, Walter Streithorst, Alberto R. Timm.
Southern Africa-Indian Ocean: German H. Hlanze, Norman Maphosa, Bareng Moahi, Emmanuel Mwale.
Southern Asia: Swamidass Johnson.
Southern Asia-Pacific: Caroline V. K. Tobing.

Thirty members at large:
Harold W. Baptiste, Gordon Bietz, Barry C. Black, Gina S. Brown, Chester V. Clark III, Jimmy L. Ferguson, Ruthita Fike, Shelton Green, Richard H. Hart, Dan Houghton, George Ipi, Donald L. Jernigan, William G. Johnsson, Kevin L. Lang, Donna McNeilus, Lester P. Merklin Jr., Ruy H. Nagel, Don Noble, Richard Osborn, Orville D. Parchment, Ruth E. Parish, Calvin B. Rock, Alma D. Rodriguez-Banda, Evelyn Saravia, Halvard B. Thomsen, Robert Hermann Vollmer, Debbie D. Young.

Courtesy: Adventist Church Yearbook

Scary, huh!? djconklin, meet the Adventist church–a PRO-CHOICE church.
 
pedja said:
I think it has been pointed out to you that our church **does not **condone abortion so what then is your point now?
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The Adventist church does not condone abortion in certain cases; it believes it is permissible in others. In the Catholic Church, abortion is NEVER permissible.

As for your war example, does the evil of rape justify the evil of taking a human life for the comfort of the mother, or to spite her rapist?
 
adventistnomore said:
The Adventist church does not condone abortion in certain cases; it believes it is permissible in others. In the Catholic Church, abortion is NEVER permissible.

As for your war example, does the evil of rape justify the evil of taking a human life for the comfort of the mother, or to spite her rapist?
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To comfort the mother? To spite her rapist? Do you seriously believe there is anything she could have done which would comfort her? I am talking about a woman who is not herself anymore, about an unrecognizable human being which does not wish to have any part in conceiving the child of her rapist. She would rather be dead then pregnant! If you ever would have experienced something like this you would know that under which circumstances that decision is made and you would feel that mother’s horror which is beyond comprehension. Is this matter really so simplistic to you?
 
pedja said:
Maria,
Maybe it is easy for you to say things like “abortion is murder-case closed”. I too believe abortion is wrong and I do not support it. But the problem is that sometimes some people are faced with a terrible reality in which reason or a moral dogma, ****even God’s commandment does not prevail. ****And I believe that this woman will not burn in hell for her decision neither will those who let that decision be only hers.
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Yet, if the subject had been the Sabbath instead of abortion, what would your answer be? Adventism would give no ground. Remember? Choosing death instead of worshiping on the wrong day??? As a test that will determine your salvation???

A day of the week is more important than a baby’s life. Thats Adventism. Thats one reason i’m no longer Adventist.

If there is any such ‘test’ at the end of time, it would seem more likely it would be in protecting the innocent unborn, rather than a day of the week.

MarysRoses
 
MarysRoses said:
Yet, if the subject had been the Sabbath instead of abortion, what would your answer be? Adventism would give no ground. Remember? Choosing death instead of worshiping on the wrong day??? As a test that will determine your salvation???

A day of the week is more important than a baby’s life. Thats Adventism. Thats one reason i’m no longer Adventist.

If there is any such ‘test’ at the end of time, it would seem more likely it would be in protecting the innocent unborn, rather than a day of the week.

MarysRoses
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Seriously, what on earth are you talking about?! Did you even read my post?! We were talking about abortion and I gave one clear, real example from a terrible event which happened to that woman where it is enormously difficult to simply say “abortion is murder”.

You said “A day of the week is more important than a baby’s life”. What has this got to do with what I was talking about??
 
djconklin said:
"4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman’s life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships.
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This is quite a bit different than the first impression I got, but the bottom line is that it’s still abortion.
 
pedja said:
To comfort the mother? To spite her rapist? Do you seriously believe there is anything she could have done which would comfort her? I am talking about a woman who is not herself anymore, about an unrecognizable human being which does not wish to have any part in conceiving the child of her rapist. She would rather be dead then pregnant! If you ever would have experienced something like this you would know that under which circumstances that decision is made and you would feel that mother’s horror which is beyond comprehension. Is this matter really so simplistic to you?
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Did you read MarysRoses’ post? How can you say that a man should rather die than break the Sabbath in times of violent persecution, and then turn around and claim that a mother under enormous emotional duress can legitimately take the life of her child to avoid further suffering (a form of self-comfort)? Is a day of the week is more important to you than an individual human life?
 
In the Catholic Church, abortion is NEVER permissible.
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So, let’s say that you’re in charge of making the ethical decisions in a hospital and it turns out that you have a choice: if youy don’t abort you kill both the baby and the mother, or you can choose to kill one or the other. What you are saying is that (since we can’t separate a church from its members) is that every single Catholic would choose to kill both of them?!?!?

We had a professor in the seminary who was asked about his stance on abortion. He stated that what he thought what Satan had done was to pit two God given rights, the right to choose and the right to life, against each other.
 
If the guidelines are not official Adventist teaching, then the Adventist Church still has not stood up for “the right to life.”
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Hmm, even when we have had the link posted several times and I even posted a relevant portion on the fourm it still gets skipped over! And people talk about my reading abilities???

Let’s try again:

"Principles for a Christian View of Life

Introduction

“Now this is eternal life; that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” (John 17:3, NIV). In Christ is the promise of eternal life; but since human life is mortal, humans are confronted with difficult issues regarding life and death. The following principles refer to the whole person (body, soul, and spirit), an indivisible whole (Genesis 2:7; 1 Thessalonians 5:23).

Life: Our valuable gift from God
  1. God is the Source, Giver, and Sustainer of all life (Acts 17:25,28; Job 33:4; Genesis 1:30, 2:7; Psalm 36:9; John 1:3,4).
  2. Human life has unique value because human beings, though fallen, are created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27; Romans 3:23; 1 John 2:2; 1 John 3:2; John 1:29; 1 Peter 1:18,19).
  3. God values human life not on the basis of human accomplishments or contributions but because we are God’s creation and the object of His redeeming love (Romans 5:6,8; Ephesians 2:2-6; 1 Timothy 1:15; Titus 3:4,5; Matthew 5:43-48; Ephesians 2:4-9; John 1:3, 10:10).
Life: Our response to God’s gift
  1. Valuable as it is, human life is not the only or ultimate concern. Self-sacrifice in devotion to God and His principles may take precedence over life itself (Revelation 12:11; 1 Corinthians 13).
  2. God calls for the protection of human life and holds humanity accountable for its destruction (Exodus 20:13; Revelation 21:8; Exodus 23:7; Deuteronomy 24:16; Proverbs 6:16,17; Jeremiah 7:3-34; Micah 6:7; Genesis 9:5,6).
  3. God is especially concerned for the protection of the weak, the defenseless, and the oppressed (Psalm 82:3,4; James 1:27; Micah 6:8; Acts 20:35; Proverbs 24:11,12; Luke 1:52-54).
  4. Christian love (agape) is the costly dedication of our lives to enhancing the lives of others. Love also respects personal dignity and does not condone the oppression of one person to support the abusive behavior of another (Matthew 16:21; Philippians 2:1-11; 1 John 3:16; 1 John 4:8-11; Matthew 22:39; John 18:22,23; John 13:34).
  5. The believing community is called to demonstrate Christian love in tangible, practical, and substantive ways. God calls us to restore gently the broken (Galatians 6:1,2; 1 John 3:17,18; Matthew 1:23; Philippians 2:1-11; John 8:2-11; Romans 8:1-14; Matthew 7:1,2, 12:20; Isaiah 40:42, 62:2-4).
Life: Our right and responsibility to decide
  1. God gives humanity the freedom of choice, even if it leads to abuse and tragic consequences. His unwillingness to coerce human obedience necessitated the sacrifice of His Son. He requires us to use His gifts in accordance with His will and ultimately will judge their misuse (Deuteronomy 30:19,20; Genesis 3; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 3:5,6, 6:1,2; Galatians 5:13).
  2. God calls each of us individually to moral decision making and to search the scriptures for the biblical principles underlying such choices (John 5:39; Acts 17:11; 1 Peter 2:9; Romans 7:13-25).
  3. Decisions about human life from its beginning to its end are best made within the context of healthy family relationships with the support of the faith community (Exodus 20:12; Ephesians 5,6).
  4. Human decisions should always be centered in seeking the will of God (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 6:6; Luke 22:42)."
 
Is a day of the week is more important to you than an individual human life?
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  1. God made the Sabbath holy–if you love God with all you heart, mind and soul then you will keep the Sabbath. If you love God with all you heart, mind and soul then you will love your fellow man as your self and you will not kill them.
  2. Siding with a group that would kill both the mother and the baby isn’t the loving choice to make.
 
djconklin:

A “thus saith the Lord” is suffice for us to make every sacrifice, just as you would for your sabbath:
We do not deny these very great difficulties. It may be a serious question of health, sometimes of life or death, for the mother; it may be the burden represented by an additional child, especially if there are good reasons to fear that the child will be abnormal or retarded; it may be the importance attributed in different classes of society to considerations of honor or dishonor, of loss of social standing, and so forth. We proclaim only that none of these reasons can ever objectively confer the right to dispose of another’s life, even when that life is only beginning. With regard to the future unhappiness of the child, no one, not even the father or mother, can act as its substitute- even if it is still in the embryonic stage- to choose in the child’s name, life or death. The child itself, when grown up, will never have the right to choose suicide; no more may his parents choose death for the child while it is not of an age to decide for itself. Life is too fundamental a value to be weighed against even very serious disadvantages. (Congregation for Doctrine and Faith, 1974)

The child is not an aggressor; therefore, murder in self-defense is not a legitimate option.
 
Originally Posted by djconklin
"4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman’s life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships.
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This is quite a bit different than the first impression I got, but the bottom line is that it’s still abortion.
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  1. Note that the critics choose not to tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. They deliberately gave you the misleading first impression–because that’s what they wanted you to come away with and look no further–I, on the other hand, have learned to never, ever trust the critics (most simply repeat what they have been told without checking) on anything and so I’ll dig a bit deeper. As you cruise these forums notice how many times the critics get caught not telling you the whole story.
  2. Note the precise circumstances under which they said abortion should be allowed (not required).
a) “threats to the pregnant woman’s life” – how often does that occur? And would the critics really say that its more loving to kill both by not treating them? And, I’d ask the doctors is there any way that you could do a C-section and save the baby as well? It may not be possible and I’d be the last one, unlike some, who’d say that the doctor is a cold-hearted butcher looking to kill someone. We can ask the same question about the rest:

b) “serious jeopardy to her health”

c) “severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus”

d) “pregnancy resulting from rape or incest” – again, how often does this really occur? From what I’ve heard very rarely. And here I’d like to see very careful counselling done with the mother to see if eshe is emotionally and mentally stable enough to bring the pregnancy to term and then put the baby up for adoption.
 
djconklin said:
c) “severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus”
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Because a down syndrome child isn’t worth years of love and sacrifice?
“pregnancy resulting from rape or incest” – again, how often does this really occur? From what I’ve heard very rarely.
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Bestiality is also very rare, and very damnable.
 
The Executive Committee is the church’s highest executive organ, presently composed of the following members, from the highest echelons of every corner of the Adventist world church:
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  1. Truth is not found by counting noses.
  2. We could do the same line of argument on other cases of moral failure for other denominations.
  3. I’m really thankful that one of the first things I was taught as an SDA is that being a member of a specific church isn’t what is going to save you. And so, if you wanted to have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ that you had you actually use your God-given brain to think about what He was trying to teach you through His Word. I will not be saved or lost because I went against man’s opinion. In fact, I’d suggest that given the track record of man it would be safer to against the grain and not roll with the flow to hell.
 
Originally Posted by djconklin
c) “severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus”
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Because a down syndrome child isn’t worth keeping alive?
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I don’t know what exactly they are covering under that phrase.
“pregnancy resulting from rape or incest” – again, how often does this really occur? From what I’ve heard very rarely.
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Bestiality is also very rare, and very damnable.
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They will be punished in hell for doing so.​

So, are you going to kill both the child and the mother because you won’t abort when the mother’s life is in danger?
 
djconklin said:
  1. Truth is not found by counting noses.
  2. We could do the same line of argument on other cases of moral failure for other denominations.
  3. I’m really thankful that one of the first things I was taught as an SDA is that being a member of a specific church isn’t what is going to save you. And so, if you wanted to have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ that you had you actually use your God-given brain to think about what He was trying to teach you through His Word. I will not be saved or lost because I went against man’s opinion. In fact, I’d suggest that given the track record of man it would be safer to against the grain and not roll with the flow to hell.
Click to expand...
So you finally concede that your denomination is pro-choice, even though you, for the most part, are not?
 
A “thus saith the Lord” is suffice for us to make every sacrifice, just as you would for your sabbath:
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  1. As you should well know, if you were and Adventist, the Sabbath isn’t mine. It was made by God at creation and has never been set aside. So, to use the phrase “your sabbath” is to tell a lie.
  2. “A thus saith the Lord” is found in reference to the Bible, not the teachings of man.
The child is not an aggressor; therefore, murder in self-defense is not a legitimate option.
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  1. If it was in self-defense it wouldn’t be murder.
  2. There are cases where if you don’t abort you’ll end up killing both the mother and the child. Neither is the “aggressor” (a non-relevant term in this discussion). So, who do you choose to kill or do you kill both?
 
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