Seventh Day Adventist Sect Built On Racism!

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SDA2RC:
Actually, in my opinion, (which often is worthless… LOL) the SDA Church hinges on the Vatican being the anti-Christ. Here is why…

If the Pope does not become the AntiChrist then all of the following are true:
  1. SDA’s misinterpreted the 1260 days of Daniel and Revelation
  2. The Sabbath/Sunday issue is not the Mark of the Beast
  3. IF the Sabbath/Sunday issue is not the mark of the beast, then SDA’s have mis-understood the role of the Mosaic Law in the NT Church.
  4. If the SDA’s have misunderstood the role of the Mosaic law in the NT Church, they have incorrectly identified the Church of Christ.
  5. IF SDA’s have incorrectly identified the Church of Christ, then they have been instrumental in leading people away from the Church of Christ.
  6. IF they have done this… well… then Ellen and the others were not sharing true revelation about many things, including the investigative Judgement
  7. If this is the case… then we can continue down the line of unique SDA Doctrines and they fall like domino’s 😉
Basically… the SDA Church could cease to exist and the RCC would not be affected, because it is founded on Christ through Peter. However, if the RCC ceased to exist, the entire belief structure of the SDA Church would fail. This was quite a realization for me as an Adventist.

In Christ!
Brandon
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Yeah I have to agree with you on these points. I can never get the SDA’s to acknowledge the true importance of Ellen Gould White. It seems to me as their “inspired prophet” who in a nut-shell formed the church into what it is today, if her prophecies and visions were fasle it seems people would be leaving droves. Do you think they are trying to sweep Ellen G. White under the rug these days to keep folks from her writings? Here is a few of her so called prophecies:
  • Jerusalem’s Future: Mrs. White will be alive when Jesus returns
  • England will attack the United States (1862)
  • The Civil War is a sign Jesus is about to return
  • In 1850’s Mrs. White said Jesus will return “in a few months”
  • Adventists living in 1856 will be alive when Jesus returns
  • Mrs. White saw Enoch on Jupiter or Saturn
And that’s just the tippy top of the iceberg!
 
Max Kolbe:
Yeah I have to agree with you on these points. I can never get the SDA’s to acknowledge the true importance of Ellen Gould White. !
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Nor will you be able to… this is because SDA’s are taught that the basis for believing in EGW is scripture, therefore, they are only being scriptural in their minds. However, in practice one needs only to look at the baptismal vows, which are the 13 things one must agree to before being baptised in the SDA Church. Vow #8 says, “8. Do you accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church?”

The problem is that according to vow #13, the SDA church is THE remnant church. Therefore, what #8 is really saying is that to identify the SDA Church as the remnant church, one of the ways(marks) of doing that is by recognizing the gift of prophecy within the church. Since the SDA Church only recognizes EGW in their 27 fundamental beliefs as having the gift of prophecy, then what vow #8 is really asking is if the person accepts EGW.

The 17th Fundamental belief states "17. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

What this all means is that baptism is based on your acceptance of EGW. Sad 😦
Max Kolbe:
Here is a few of her so called prophecies:
  • Jerusalem’s Future: Mrs. White will be alive when Jesus returns
  • England will attack the United States (1862)
  • The Civil War is a sign Jesus is about to return
  • In 1850’s Mrs. White said Jesus will return “in a few months”
  • Adventists living in 1856 will be alive when Jesus returns
  • Mrs. White saw Enoch on Jupiter or Saturn
And that’s just the tippy top of the iceberg!
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Were I SDA, I would say that most of these prophecies were conditional… something for which there is Biblical precedence, therefore, they really do not prove nor disprove anything 😉

In Christ!
Brandon
 
Very cool Brandon. I learned a whole bunch right there, thank you! It’s intersting about the prophecies being “conditional”. Seems that many of the pentacostal folks today say the same thing. Kind of gives one a neat esacpe hatch don’t ya think?😉
 
Max Kolbe:
Very cool Brandon. I learned a whole bunch right there, thank you! It’s intersting about the prophecies being “conditional”. Seems that many of the pentacostal folks today say the same thing. Kind of gives one a neat esacpe hatch don’t ya think?😉
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Definitely, anyone, including me, can make tons of conditional prophecies, because if they never come true, doesnt mean I didnt prophesy correctly. It is a huge “escape hatch”, but like I said, we see Biblical precedence for this… The story of Jonah for example contains a conditional prophecy.

To me the issue is still authority. For example, can a bunch of men in 1863, or men and women if you want to count EGW, although she was never ordained, get together and ordain each other and expect thatit be recognized by God? Is there precedence in scripture for being ordained by somone who was not ordained themselves validly? Can anyone just ordain people and have it recognized by God?

SDA’s do not deal with the question of authority very effectively, because often it is something that is not thought about a lot in their theology structure.

Brandon
 
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SDA2RC:
Definitely, anyone, including me, can make tons of conditional prophecies, because if they never come true, doesnt mean I didnt prophesy correctly. It is a huge “escape hatch”, but like I said, we see Biblical precedence for this… The story of Jonah for example contains a conditional prophecy.

To me the issue is still authority. For example, can a bunch of men in 1863, or men and women if you want to count EGW, although she was never ordained, get together and ordain each other and expect thatit be recognized by God? Is there precedence in scripture for being ordained by somone who was not ordained themselves validly? Can anyone just ordain people and have it recognized by God?

SDA’s do not deal with the question of authority very effectively, because often it is something that is not thought about a lot in their theology structure.

Brandon
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I guess it boils down to the same lie the devil has been using for centuries. He picks and individual (usually bible believeing christian) plants ideas in their mind about everything that is wrong with the church or “churches”, gives them some type of special calling and some stamp of so called “authenticity” like the glowing sabbath commandment so that they feel everyone else is wrong and they are the only one’s who can save the faith. That is how the 'self ordination" process begins much of the time agree?
 
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Contarini:
The word “cult” is overused. Of course SDA’s are heretical by Catholic standards–even more so than other Protestants. But they believe in the Trinity and the Incarnation. They shouldn’t be classed with JW’s or Mormons. Ellen White had some kooky ideas, for sure. But lots of people in the 19th century were racists. I don’t think that’s enough to discredit the SDA’s by itself, as long as they don’t still claim that these horrible ideas are true or divinely inspired.

I’m always baffled as to why Catholics treat other religious groups the way fundamentalists treat Catholics. It’s exactly the same lingo: “I have a heart to reach SDAs,” and the same methodology: instead of tackling the major issues, find somethig discreditable in the groups history and pummel them with it. Doesn’t the Golden Rule preclude this?

Edwin
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A further point:​

Mud that is thrown, has a nasty way of hitting them that that throw it 🙂

For example, there has been more than a little racialism in Catholicism. So perhaps we should be very slow indeed to make that accusation against others. ##
 
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SDA2RC:
Definitely, anyone, including me, can make tons of conditional prophecies, because if they never come true, doesnt mean I didnt prophesy correctly. It is a huge “escape hatch”, but like I said, we see Biblical precedence for this… The story of Jonah for example contains a conditional prophecy.

To me the issue is still authority. For example, can a bunch of men in 1863, or men and women if you want to count EGW, although she was never ordained, get together and ordain each other and expect thatit be recognized by God? Is there precedence in scripture for being ordained by somone who was not ordained themselves validly?
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Jesus was not ordained a priest. Yet He is said to have ordained the Apostles priests. It is because His Priesthood was not self-evidently real or legitimate, that the Letter to the Hebrews was written.​

So the Christian priesthood is certainly not descended from that of Aaron. The priesthood of Christ Himself, is charismatic - it was not conferred through the ministry of men who were priests.

One might say that His Priesthood goes with His dignity as King & Messiah - the problem is that by His time the priesthood and the Davidic monarchy were not only completely separate, but the priesthood had absorbed the prestige of the Davidic monarchy, which had not existed since 586 BC. Yet the hope of a Messiah, is based upon ideas about the Davidic monarchy; not upon ideas about the priesthood of Aaron.

IOW, there was no institutional continuity between Judaism, and Christianity: what become Christianity, was at first no more than a Messianic sect - “group” might be a less loaded word - within Judaism. ##
Can anyone just ordain people and have it recognized by God?

SDA’s do not deal with the question of authority very effectively, because often it is something that is not thought about a lot in their theology structure.

Brandon
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Do they claim to derive authority from a direct vocation by God ?​

Authority need not come by apostolic succession and ordination alone: at least in several episodes in the Bible, the Spirit simply “falls upon” a man, as upon Saul when he prophesied, or upon Eldad and Medad in the Book of Numbers, or upon Samson. ##
 
Gottle of Geer said:
## A further point:

Mud that is thrown, has a nasty way of hitting them that that throw it 🙂

For example, there has been more than a little racialism in Catholicism. So perhaps we should be very slow indeed to make that accusation against others. ##
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Yes but this:

ellenwhite.org/critica.htm

Claiming God taught het this…mmmm I would have to say the devil indeed!
 
Gottle of Geer said:
## Jesus was not ordained a priest. Yet He is said to have ordained the Apostles priests. It is because His Priesthood was not self-evidently real or legitimate, that the Letter to the Hebrews was written.

So the Christian priesthood is certainly not descended from that of Aaron. The priesthood of Christ Himself, is charismatic - it was not conferred through the ministry of men who were priests.

One might say that His Priesthood goes with His dignity as King & Messiah - the problem is that by His time the priesthood and the Davidic monarchy were not only completely separate, but the priesthood had absorbed the prestige of the Davidic monarchy, which had not existed since 586 BC. Yet the hope of a Messiah, is based upon ideas about the Davidic monarchy; not upon ideas about the priesthood of Aaron.

IOW, there was no institutional continuity between Judaism, and Christianity: what become Christianity, was at first no more than a Messianic sect - “group” might be a less loaded word - within Judaism. ##

Do they claim to derive authority from a direct vocation by God ?​

Authority need not come by apostolic succession and ordination alone: at least in several episodes in the Bible, the Spirit simply “falls upon” a man, as upon Saul when he prophesied, or upon Eldad and Medad in the Book of Numbers, or upon Samson. ##
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Nice try chief…I ask you this: How many men in the Bible were given the “keys of the kingdom of Heaven” directly by God Almighty himself (Jesus) and a new name to boot? Wouldn’t that make you feel “a little important” big guy?👍
 
Good morning! This is an interesting discussion and I do not know where to begin. I just discovered this site yesterday on my spiritual journey. I just finished praying for Christian love to express my thoughts in this thread. I was raised a Lutheran. In 1978 I joined the SDA church. I attended CUC and earned a BA in theology. I turned down a call to pastor a church and go to seminary (which I now see as God’s intervention in my life strangely enough). I preached in SDA churches on a regualr basis for many years, and served as an elder in my home churches as well. I have read just about all of Mrs. White’s books, and believe that the accusation of racism is inaccurate. No where in my studies have I come across Russell’s being a student of Mrs. White nor any association between them. I may be incorrect, but I honestly do not know of that relationship if it existed. That is not to say that Russell and others have not read her writings. In 1985 I married the woman I fell in love with and she was and is a devout Catholic. Over the years she went to SDA church with me, and I with her to Catholic services. It seemed pretty much the rule of thumb that no matter what SDA church we attended, she was approached by one or two SDA members who made it clear they wanted her to join our church. Upon reflection, I see that there were times when I approached visitors that way, even with my own mother who was not SDA. It was, and is, offensive and I offer a general apology for my behavior. Most of my friends and loved ones whom I took to church eventually were offended by someone. I do not however think this is the behavior of the majority of SDAs. However, I have never experienced that attitude when I have attended Catholic churches, and that is not to say that it doesn’t happen somewhere. I have never seen it however. I have not been to SDA church in many years, partly becuase my loved ones were offended, but mostly because of the Church leadership’s stand, or lack of stand, on allowing SDA hospitals to perform abortions. I entered a letter writing relationship with Church leaders in the early 1990s, with statistical information on the number of abortions performed in three D.C. area hospitals. That relationship went nowhere. I have reaquainted with a college professor who also fought the church leaders on that issue. I stopped going to church and have suffered spiritually for the past 23 years, yet God is good, His mercy endures forever, and He has, through His grace brought me to a fuller understanding of His love for us and His plan for our salvation. I don’t know how much space is available for this thread, so I will complete my thoughts in another seperate posting. I would just like to say that I know many SDAs who love Jesus with all their heart, and I know many Catholics and people from other churches who love Jesus with all their heart. I will share more in the next post. God bless you!
 
My husband, though raised an independent Baptist and now a Jew, spent a number of years in between that in the SDA church. Consequently, I know quite a bit about that church and what they believe.

I think the link you’re posting about is part of the Reform SDA, which is an offshoot that places the writings of EGW on equal par (or maybe higher) than the Bible.

We knew people in the Reform SDA, although my husband belonged to the mainstream SDA church (Allegheny East Conference).

I still have great affection for the SDAs we knew. They were wonderful people, and BTW the church my husband belonged to was 100% black (he was the only white member, lol!) we still see them periodically, when we go to the local ABC bookstore to buy vegetarian kosher food for my daughters (both are vegetarians for ethical reasons).

Orthodox Jews often work with SDAs in religious liberty questions, such as insuring those who keep the 7th day Sabbath can receive those days off for their religious needs.

Of all the Christians I’ve met in my life (and I’ve met many), the nicest were the SDAs and the Old Order Amish.
 
I stopped attending the SDA church completely in 1994. Having believed sincerely that the SDA church had “The Truth” of God’s plan for the final stages of earth’s history, and feeling that there was really no other church to attend, I went no where. I prayed occasionally, I read the Bible occasionally, I read theological books occasionally. I cannot begin to describe the anguish I experienced, loving and desiring and craving the relationship I had with Jesus at one time, the joy of fellowship with like minded believers…and then feeling destitute in having no where to go where I felt I would fit in with what I believed. Oh there were still opportunities to discuss God with others, even to argue about who was right, who was wrong, the evils in my church such as allowing our hospitials to abort thousands of babies, or the evils in the Catholic Church with the priests who molested those in their care. And yet there is enough evil to go around for everyone. Not only SDA hospitals perform abortions, and not only do some bad Catholic priests molest chidren. These sins are committed by a universe of organizations, both secular and religious. And I had ample opportunity to commit my own sins, and did, while attending church and while not attending church. And in this thread I just read this same finger pointing arguing, the I at time joyfully participated in and enjoyed when I felt like I had “won”. And then I realized, or God revealed to me how off course that is with His plan for The Church, The Body of Christ, The Bride of Christ, the mission and purpose of Chritians, the misson and purpose of us who profess. In the next thread I will the rest of my thoughts for this thread. God bless you!
 
At times I would attend Mass with my wife and children (both of whom are Catholic). I would watch the priest hold up the communion bread and say here is the Lamb of God (and I’m paraphrasing here)…may this sacrifice be acceptable. Sacrifice. I believed that Jesus was offered once completely on the cross for the redemption of man. My angered burned against the Catholics for this, which to me at the time, seemed sacreligious. I never understood what Mass was about. And that is either because no one ever explained it to me, or they did, and my personal bigotry against Catholicism blinded me. I was raised Lutheran and in those day we cheered Martin Luther standing up to the pope and corruption in Rome at that time, and those anti-Catholic sentiments were real in many I knew and still know, and not just among Lutherans. Which is not to say that Lutherans teach anyone to hate Catholics. People don’ t seem to need teachers in order to embrace hate…that comes easily, and often because of misunderstandings or misinformation…not always, but often. How often when arguing with someone about religion, did I speak thinking I knew what others taught, but I was actually ignorant of what they believed. Again, I apologize generally for that offense.
I was sinking deeper in despair in my own spiritual life and it was taking its toll on my wife and family. Remember, I have been experiencing this for 23 years, and extremely so for the past 14. It came to a head this past Spring and and a month ago I was praying fervently to God every day, all day long…“God let me die this day” “God let me go to sleep tonight and not wake up” “God kill me”. Two weeks ago I woke up with the reassurance that God loves me, that God will save me from death both spiritual now and physical for eternity…and for the first time in my life, I have that peace with passes all understanding. God is good. And yet this was not a one time blast of miracilous divine intervention…it was God genly loving me, leading me, teaching me, and allowing me to understand His love…not just for the past 14 years, or 23 years…but for the past 49 years of my life. And in the next thread I will share how this was for me, and pray the those of you on this site, both SDA and Catholic, and any other faith community, think about this, and discuss this, and meditate upon this. We can all meet for a picnic this summer and argue, but for now talk of this…and that is…Jesus. God bless you!
 
Around 1993, I preached my last sermon in an SDA chuch. At the time my wife would come with me to church from time to time, and I would attend with her. I remember sitting in her church and looking at the crucifix above the alter. I would spend much time thinking about Jesus on the cross, taking our sins upon Himself so that through His death our sins could be forgiven. It reminded me of what Paul said, that he would preach Christ and Him crucified…so simple, yet decades of deep study will never let us fully understand that love. I was reading the Bible, Isaish, in my daily devotions, when I read Isaiah 28…and God let verses 16 and 17 jump out of the pages and into my heart and mind…“See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed. I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line” (NIV). I preached on this verse a few weeks later. And to illustrate what lept out of this verse at me, I took a measuring tape and a chalked plumb line to church. I asked two people to come up and stretch out the measuring tape, and then I stood nearby and dropped the plumline, it went one way to the floor. I then asked the people with the measure to come toward me and moved toward them until the two intersected, and guess what we made…that’s right…a cross of all things. I then had someone come up and stand in front of it and stretch out their hands. They easily fulfilled the measure of justice. Their hands could be nailed to a cross and they would meet the measure of justice…they could die for the sins they committed…which is what our penalty for sin is…death. However, they could not fulfill the plumbline of righteousness. ONLY the body of Christ could be that plumbline, The Righteous One plumb to His outstreached hands on the cross was the only one who could be the cornerstone, the foundation of our salvation. And this could only be accomplished with a great love for us. The Lord provided and blessed me that day to see that Jesus is the conerstone of our salvation through His willing sacrifice on the cross. In the early 2000s I heard a priest preach a homily about the Eucharist. I told my wife afterwards that he was the first person I had heard who made me think the Eucharist was other than what I thought in my own understanding. I began to think about the Eucharist and still didn’t understand it. In 2006 I asked the Catholic bookstore worker in our town, what book she would recommend to a protestant to help them understand what Catholics believe and teach about the Eucharist. She recommended “The Hidden Manna” by Fr. Jame O’Connor. I bought it, put in on the shelf next in the line of books I was reading and thought this will be my last attempt to understand what I was adamantly opposed to. In 2007, I read that book, and became convinced that what the Catholic Church teaches regarding the Eucharist, communion, is both true and Biblical. See my next thread, this was too long…and thank you for indulging my story.
 
In 2008, two weeks ago, God either opened my eyes, or I allowed Him to open them finally and have experienced more of the grace of God in two weeks than in two decades. At the last supper Jesus took the bread and said “This IS MY BODY”…the wine and said “This IS MY BLOOD” given for you…before the crucifixion, and after the crucifixion. To my SDA friends read this in the gospels. Read John 6, especially verses 25 to the end of the chapter. Jesus told His disciples that unless they ate His flesh and drink His blood you have no life in you. Many went away sad because they said it is a “hard teaching. Who can accept it?” Many of His diciples turned back and no longer followed Him. It is imperative to be “IN Jesus” in order to have life. Paul writes about this, all the apostles do. Through this miracle of the Eucharist, instituted by Jesus at His crowning act of salvation for mankind, He literally, spiritually, and physcially is IN us, and we in Him…He says that in John 6. Now study what Paul says about the Church being The Body of Christ…it is beautiful and liberating to finally understand this!! And Jesus is returning to take His Body, The Church, as His Bride!! Read what the Bible says about marriage, how you no longer own your body, but now you are in union with your spouse…your body is hers, her body is yours. Our body is part of Jesus’ body (the Bible tells us that we are bought and paid for by Christ, we are not our own anylonger), through COMMUNION with HIM, WE are in communion with each other through COMMUNION with Jesus and all of us who believe BECOME ONE BODY…and Chist is coming to marry His Bride, redeem us from this world of sin and MAKE US ONE with HIM. Who can desribe such a wonderful act of love that saves us from the misery of being seperated from HIM through sin. I was sepreated by my sins, and now I believe more than ever in God’s love, God’s power, and God’s grace to restore me to the child of God I was meant to be. Pease…everyone on here think about this, read these books of the Bible and study this…THIS IS THE CHURCH…This is Christianty…This is the gospel…the good news for fallen man!!! It has taken me 30 years to come to this joy…30 years because of my own pride, my own sins…30 years I will never have back…and yet through those 30 years God was teaching me and lovng me and guiding me as much as I would allow Him to. I pray that we all open our hearts and surrender our will to God. I shared this with an Adventist friend of mine…my closest friend in this world…and after I told Him of what I discovered in the Catholic Church about communion, he responded simply…“Do they wash feet at communion?” My SDA friends understand this. And all I could think of after having shared this beautiful revelation of the gospel with him, was the response of the religious leaders after Jesus healed a blind man on the Sabbath. They debated about how Jesus broke and profaned the Sabbath by HEALING the blind man…read the account in the NT…it is almost funny if wasn’t so sad. They asked the blind man what His thoughts were and he said…all I know is that I was blind and now I can see. The legalism of the believers caused them to miss the wonder of the miracle. They loved to argue about who was right. I have decided to take RCIA and join the Catholic Church…for many reasons that have been thought out over 23 years, cried over, prayed over. That is my experience with Jesus. All I know is that I was dead, and now I live!!! I would only add in closing that I am NOT a termite. Neither am I “the very elect deceived”, nor an anti-christ worshipping papist. I am a miserable sinner, who is a forgiven and redeemed child of God, adopted into His divinve family, part of HIS BODY, and waiting for the wedding! It is my prayer that all of you and your friends and family will be too! God bless you!
 
jjwilkman said:
i don’t want to hurt your feelings, but this is
  1. utterly ridiculous
  2. doesn;t belong on this site
    3.Jesus Christ IS God!! . period!!
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I was an SDA for 31 years. Max’s representation of SDA beliefs are right on the money.
 
Patrick:

I praise God for your recent experience. If there is anything that I can do to aid you in your journey, just ask.

Marsha
 
SDA2RC said:
In addition, while I VERY much disagree with many if not most of the tenets of Adventism, the doctrines as taught by the SDA General Conference are not cultic, nor do they justify the label cult. That being said… I do believe that the SDA Church is standing on just this side of a fine line between Christian and Cult, and that many SDA’s practice a cultish form of Adventism (for example, Jan Marcussen), but that there are also many that practice a more mainstream Christian form of Adventism.

In Christ,
Brandon
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Actually, Brandon, you’re right. The Polish Conference of Bishops issued a pastoral letter several years ago stating clearly that the SDA denomination is NOT a cult. Under obedience to the authority of the Church I bow to their teaching – I’m very confused by it, and I don’t in my heart believe it, but the Church has said it and so I acknowledge it as truth.
 
Marsha,

Thank you. I praise God too! It is the difference between law and grace. Law lets you know that you are a sinner. It is God’s grace that heals and restores. I have been fortunate enough to have a patient loving wife. It has occured to me that looking I did not see, and listening I did not hear. And yet I always held on to the fact that God said His word would not go out void. He who begins that good work sees it through to completion. God has provided answers to my questions regarding Catholicism as an SDA…and believe me when I tell you that I was a “hard sell”. It was a struggle of which I don’t like to dwell upon, and yet it amazes me how I read verses over and over and didn’t really read it correctly. You say you were an SDA for 31 years…I assume you are a Catholic now?

The only thing I would ask you to do for me is remember me and my family and friends in your prayers and I will remember you and yours in mine!

God bless you!
 
Brandon and Marsha,

I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the SDA church is a cult…at least no more than any other protestant church. When I was studying theology at CUC it occured to me then, that in order to consistent with the philosophy of the reformation, the reformation must continue always. Only because all organizations tend to become bureaucratic…they have to in order to maintain order in their organization…and order is not a bad thing. But being young and rebellious I thought Martin Luther left because the Church wasn’t doing what it was appointed to do. I therefore thought that since the SDA church was becoming bureaucratic so as to maintain order…and maybe power and authority (I was witness to some of the more prominant theological “differences” in the 70s and early 80s). So with the tremendous number of abortions being performed in SDA hospitals, and the theological battles going on, it only seem natural to me that reform meant separation and starting new churches. That was pretty much the history of the reformation which resulted in sins throughout history more heinous than the ones they set out to correct. I laugh when people say they are against organized religion…with what, choatic religion being preferrable? The natural result of the reformation has been for these continuous breakaway and new churches to lose view of the mission of The Church. That is why many churches allow abortion these days. Why we see the evangelicals embrace this war mongering fever in the middle east. In “The Everlasting Man” by G.K. Chesterton, he points out the The Church was established by God to partake in the plan of salvation…it may be healthy, vibrant, growing, or it may be ill, corrupt and dimishing…but it is God’s Church and it will not go away…it will not die. God’s love revealed once again by taking the risk to allow humans to have such an awesome resonsibility. The Church has lasted for 2000 years…kings have ruled and died, nations have ruled and died, organizations have come and gone…and yet the Church has survived them all, and will continue to survive them all. Just a few thoughts…have a great afternoon and God bless you!
 
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