Seventh Day Adventist Trinity

[thephilosopher6]

At first glance the Seventh Day Adventist conception of the Trinity seems orthodox but they actually teach a form of tritheism, which is similar to the Mormon conception of the Trinity as three gods, although unlike Mormons, are not as explicit about it, and indeed as I said, they can seem orthodox in this regard to the average Christian without any knowledge of them.

My question is, how can Seventh Day Adventist be considers Christians by the Church if this is the case? As far as I know, the Church recognizes their baptism. Why? What sets them apart from Mormons? Both Mormons and SDA have the correct form and matter, both baptize in the name of the Trinity with water by immersion, but due to Mormon tritheism, the Church does not see them as having the right intent, so why does the Church see SDA’s as having right intent in this case?

 

[adf417]

I did not realize the church recognizes SDA baptisms as valid.

Peace!!!

 

[Vico]

At first glance the Seventh Day Adventist conception of the Trinity seems orthodox but they actually teach a form of tritheism, which is similar to the Mormon conception of the Trinity as three gods, although unlike Mormons, are not as explicit about it, and indeed as I said, they can seem orthodox in this regard to the average Christian without any knowledge of them.

My question is, how can Seventh Day Adventist be considers Christians by the Church if this is the case? As far as I know, the Church recognizes their baptism. Why? What sets them apart from Mormons? Both Mormons and SDA have the correct form and matter, both baptize in the name of the Trinity with water by immersion, but due to Mormon tritheism, the Church does not see them as having the right intent, so why does the Church see SDA’s as having right intent in this case?

From the Seventh Day Adventist website:
“Immortal, all-powerful and all-loving, God is a relationship of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The only being worthy of our worship, God is our Creator, Redeemer and Friend. There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.”
adventist.org/en/beliefs/god/trinity/

 

[thephilosopher6]

From the Seventh Day Adventist website:
“Immortal, all-powerful and all-loving, God is a relationship of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The only being worthy of our worship, God is our Creator, Redeemer and Friend. There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.”
adventist.org/en/beliefs/god/trinity/

fae.adventist.org/essays/34B_Matthews_L.pdf

“In spite of its clear monotheistic ring, the biblical account seems uncompromised on the idea of God as a group. While God has been declared to be one God (Deut. 6:4,1 Tim. 2:5), He has also been presented as a plurality of beings (1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; Ephesians 4:5)…What the notion of a triune (group) God seems to suggest is that the three members of the Godhead become joined in their relationship with each other, on the basis of their common purpose, values and interests.”

Wikipedia even says that Seventh Day Adventist theology is a departure from orthodoxy.

 

[petra22]

Reading…

 

[SyroMalankara]

My personal opinion, having interacted and studied more denominations in depth than the average priest or bishop, is that all non-Catholic, non-Orthodox, non-Assyrian baptisms should, at the very least, be conditional. Many a full baptism.

Having stated that, the decision is obviously above my rank.

 

[thephilosopher6]

My personal opinion, having interacted and studied more denominations in depth than the average priest or bishop, is that all non-Catholic, non-Orthodox, non-Assyrian baptisms should, at the very least, be conditional. Many a full baptism.

Having stated that, the decision is obviously above my rank.

The Church has decided against this. Heretics are not to be re-baptized and the Church as of now pretty much universally recognized Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodist, Baptist, Trinitarian Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Congregationlist and just about all denominations that teach the Trinity. And to this I do not object to. Don’t fall into Donatism my friend. You are right that certain groups do need conditional or full baptism, but the groups I listed have been approved by the Church.

Now, I did find on many lists that SDA bapitsm can be valid, but that this is not always the case. It seems that they don’t always follow through with correct form or intent. Many SDA’s do believe in the orthodox view of the Trinity, but a good chunk also still believe the doctrine I mentioned. So there usually has to be more investigation than with other groups when it comes to SDA baptism being received by the Church.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The Church has decided against this. Heretics are not to be re-baptized and the Church as of now pretty much universally recognized Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodist, Baptist, Trinitarian Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Congregationlist and just about all denominations that teach the Trinity. And to this I do not object to. Don’t fall into Donatism my friend. You are right that certain groups do need conditional or full baptism, but the groups I listed have been approved by the Church.

Now, I did find on many lists that SDA bapitsm can be valid, but that this is not always the case. It seems that they don’t always follow through with correct form or intent. Many SDA’s do believe in the orthodox view of the Trinity, but a good chunk also still believe the doctrine I mentioned. So there usually has to be more investigation than with other groups when it comes to SDA baptism being received by the Church.

It isn’t those aforementioned that I take issue with per se, it is the idea that any individual clergyman could possibly keep up with the myriad of denominations and their sub groups with personal interpretation of individual pastors ever changing… I’d err on the side of caution and simply do it right at least conditionally. What is the harm in that, at least the baptized can be at ease.

 

[thephilosopher6]

It isn’t those aforementioned that I take issue with per se, it is the idea that any individual clergyman could possibly keep up with the myriad of denominations and their sub groups with personal interpretation of individual pastors ever changing… I’d err on the side of caution and simply do it right at least conditionally. What is the harm in that, at least the baptized can be at ease.

I understand caution, but most of the groups I mentioned baptize correctly at least 99% of the time. All use the valid form, all use a valid matter, and all clearly have a valid intent and all the lists I have seen include their baptisms as valid. Those who have been received without being baptized, we must trust the Church has rightly judged in this case.

You know, some of the Orthodox will conditionally baptize Catholics based on similar reasoning.

 

[thephilosopher6]

I must note that canon law also says

“Those baptized in a non-Catholic ecclesial community must not be baptized conditionally unless, after an examination of the matter and the form of the words used in the conferral of baptism and a consideration of the intention of the baptized adult and the minister of the baptism, a serious reason exists to doubt the validity of the baptism.”

• Code of Canon Law, Part I, Baptism, Chapter III

 

[Vico]

fae.adventist.org/essays/34B_Matthews_L.pdf

“In spite of its clear monotheistic ring, the biblical account seems uncompromised on the idea of God as a group. While God has been declared to be one God (Deut. 6:4,1 Tim. 2:5), He has also been presented as a plurality of beings (1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; Ephesians 4:5)…What the notion of a triune (group) God seems to suggest is that the three members of the Godhead become joined in their relationship with each other, on the basis of their common purpose, values and interests.”

Wikipedia even says that Seventh Day Adventist theology is a departure from orthodoxy.

The changed. You can read about their history. Note in their current statement God is one being.

 

[thephilosopher6]

The changed. You can read about their history. Note in their current statement God is one being.

Yeah I did more research and found that the SDA officially holds to orthodox Trinitarian views now. But the original Adventist, including Ellen G. White herself, held to tritheism.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Of course there also exists the traditionalist SDA, adhering to EGWs texts without newer interpretations. How is a parish priest or even local bishop supposed to keep up to date on all these sect? I understand the reasoning behind not redoing Sacraments, however, some of these sects or at least individual ministers barely retain a semblence of Christianity.

 

[exnihilo]

Yeah I did more research and found that the SDA officially holds to orthodox Trinitarian views now. But the original Adventist, including Ellen G. White herself, held to tritheism.

This was my understanding. I believe Adventism has made moves to become more Orthodox on this and other doctrines as it has grown.

Of course there also exists the traditionalist SDA, adhering to EGWs texts without newer interpretations. How is a parish priest or even local bishop supposed to keep up to date on all these sect? I understand the reasoning behind not redoing Sacraments, however, some of these sects or at least individual ministers barely retain a semblence of Christianity.

It does seem like this would be a problem. As much as I appreciate the efforts to welcome non Catholics, being formerly one myself, sometimes I think the Church has swung too far the other way and been too accepting.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Oddly enough, most of the learned converts I’ve spoken with throughout the years would prefer that the Church lean toward caution – they’d willing be baptized in the Church correctly - conditionally or not, rather than not at all to respect the feelings of their ex-sect they have no intention of attending again.

 

[thephilosopher6]

Oddly enough, most of the learned converts I’ve spoken with throughout the years would prefer that the Church lean toward caution – they’d willing be baptized in the Church correctly - conditionally or not, rather than not at all to respect the feelings of their ex-sect they have no intention of attending again.

It’s not about feelings, it’s about there only being one baptism.

If any one saith, that the baptism which is even given by heretics in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, with the intention of doing what the Church doth, is not true baptism; let him be anathema.

• The Council of Trent (Session VII, Canon IV)