Seventh Day Adventists, End Times, and False Prophets

[Maria1212]

Recently, I was reading Beginning Apologetics #8, The End Times: What Catholics Believe about the Second Coming, the Rapture, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, and Indulgences (San Juan Catholic Seminars). I am Catholic and I found this very useful because it helped me understand how to explain what I believe to others.

However, it made me wonder how some Christians, like Seventh Day Adventists, rationalize it to themselves, when their own Church founders contradict Scrpiture. Wouldn`t one sign of a false prophet, be that they contradict Scripture in their teachings? Or does this come from misinterpreting or not fully understanding the Bible? For example, in Matthew 24:43, Jesus says “you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.” Acts 1:7 also tells us we cannot know the times or seasons and Jesus again says “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority.”

Scripture tells us that “False Christs and false prophets will arise and show signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.” (Mark 13:22).

On one hand, Ellen White fits the description of a false prophet precisely. On the other hand, maybe that is giving her too much credit. She might have had sincere intentions, but been affected by a medical condition that led her to believe she was actually a prophet. Or like many others, she might have been manipulating others for her own gain. Her intent does not distract from her false teachings though.

How do so many sincere Adventists reconcile their doctrine that contradicts Scripture on the end of times and the second coming of Jesus? Do they dismiss this part of Scripture, or do they interpret it differently, or do they claim it is “revelation” and God`s teachings have changed?

If any former Adventists, or current Adventists, could help clarify this, I would appreciate it.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[pedja]

Hi Maria

Im a SDA member (3rd generation) and i can tell you i have also met some adventist who are paranoid about the exact date of Jesus 2nd coming etc. I never quite understood wht really because its so clear that nobody knows when Jesus is going to come back again. However I dont believe it`s an official teaching from our church which postulates the exact date. Of course you will always meet some people who think they know it better but I disagree with that.

The same thing goes for Ellen White, there are some people who hold her to be almost more important then Jesus himself but that is also totally wrong. I believe there some things which God revealed to her but there are also big parts where she gives us her view and her opinion on a certain matter. So, as I said, youll find fanatics` everywhere but that does not concern me that much .

 

[Maria1212]

Hi Maria

Im a SDA member (3rd generation) and i can tell you i have also met some adventist who are paranoid about the exact date of Jesus 2nd coming etc. I never quite understood wht really because its so clear that nobody knows when Jesus is going to come back again. However I dont believe it`s an official teaching from our church which postulates the exact date. Of course you will always meet some people who think they know it better but I disagree with that.

The same thing goes for Ellen White, there are some people who hold her to be almost more important then Jesus himself but that is also totally wrong. I believe there some things which God revealed to her but there are also big parts where she gives us her view and her opinion on a certain matter. So, as I said, youll find fanatics` everywhere but that does not concern me that much .

Hi Pedja,

Welcome to CAF. I hope you enjoy your time here.

How can non-Adventists determine what is official doctrine and what is merely personal opinion, when studying Adventists beliefs? When we read Ellen White`s writings, how does one determine what parts are revelation, and what parts are her opinion?

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

Hi Maria

However I dont believe it`s an official teaching from our church which postulates the exact date. QUOTE]

Hi Pedja,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn`t Ellen White incorrectly predict the date of the end times?

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[lsusportsfan]

I am not Advendist ,but I come form a family where that influence is huge on my mothers side. My Grandmother was Adventist but consented to raise the Children Baptist. Even though she introduced Adventitst teaching everywhere she could. I remember she scaring the heck of me talking about the end of the world when I was like 12. Interesting enough, she manage to convert my Grandafater in his 60’s ,and my Aunt and one of her sons.

Adventist are not exactly uniform. For instance you will notice this as in regular everyday things as diet. As to May Baker Eddy, I think Adventist have different views of her. The Adventist Church will of course continue to celebrate her. However, in their main national publication(Signs) that my relatives send to me monthy she is rarely mentioned.

 

[pedja]

Hi Pedja,

Welcome to CAF. I hope you enjoy your time here.

How can non-Adventists determine what is official doctrine and what is merely personal opinion, when studying Adventists beliefs? When we read Ellen White`s writings, how does one determine what parts are revelation, and what parts are her opinion?

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

The safest way to go is to see if it contradicts the Bible. I`m really not an expert on EGW but I remember reading when she would give some health advice, what and what not to eat, I always considered those things to be clearly her personal opinion. I always wanted to get a bit deeper into the Ellen White matter to actually find out for myself what to think about her.

 

[amills]

The safest way to go is to see if it contradicts the Bible. I`m really not an expert on EGW but I remember reading when she would give some health advice, what and what not to eat, I always considered those things to be clearly her personal opinion. I always wanted to get a bit deeper into the Ellen White matter to actually find out for myself what to think about her.

If this is only her opinion why is it encompassed in Belief #22 of the Adventists:

" Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness"

And since you say you are Seventh Day Adventists then you really need to be an expert on Ellen White. Please consider belief #18 which describes her as a prophet. There are several of the beliefs that are unique to the Adventists which are directly attributable to Ellen White and you will not find them in the bible at all. At any rate is is a far stretch to get to them out of the bible.

 

[pedja]

If this is only her opinion why is it encompassed in Belief #22 of the Adventists:

" Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures. Since alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and the irresponsible use of drugs and narcotics are harmful to our bodies, we are to abstain from them as well. Instead, we are to engage in whatever brings our thoughts and bodies into the discipline of Christ, who desires our wholesomeness, joy, and goodness"

And since you say you are Seventh Day Adventists then you really need to be an expert on Ellen White. Please consider belief #18 which describes her as a prophet. There are several of the beliefs that are unique to the Adventists which are directly attributable to Ellen White and you will not find them in the bible at all. At any rate is is a far stretch to get to them out of the bible.

I dont understand, what`s wrong with abstaining from unhealthy food and smoking and drugs etc?!

 

[Sixtus]

SDA ask questions then find bible quotes to support their answers. Anyone can do that and do. Aethiests do it all the time. That is nothing new.

Take for example their teaching reproduced verbatim below::

“Why didn’t the apostle Paul always meet with the early Christians on Sunday in honor of the Resurrection”?
“Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures…” Acts 17:2

What St Paul is actually saying is that he had a mission to the Jews. He met them in their synagogues in order to convert them. Now that is why he went there on the sabbath. There would have been no point in going there on another day as there wouldn’t have been anyone there

They typically do this all the time. Raise a question then find a bible text which appears to answer that question as though both question and answer came from the bible. That is deception. That is what their father satan [small s intended] is rekown for.

Then there is that infamous of claims that the CC killed more people than were alive on the planet. Then the claim she was wrong to hold Inquiries [Inquisitons] into alien beliefs [which SDA call ‘bible believing Christians’. These were groups for example who supported child sacrifices to please God. Hardly surprising seeings their hospitals are alleged to perform abortions. Among those targetted by the Inquisition includes the teaching that satan [small s intended] was a deity equal to God. That there are two deities God and satan. Now that cannot be right. I support the CC 100% in raising an Inquiry Inquisition to stamp out child sacrifices and worshipping satan as a deity.

 

[amills]

I dont understand, what`s wrong with abstaining from unhealthy food and smoking and drugs etc?!

There is nothing wrong with that but Adventists have expanded this to mean that one cannot eat meat, pork, etc. You explained that dietary laws were only the opinion of EGW - however they are actually incorporated into their basic beliefs. These are not optional beliefs - they are beliefs that an Adventists signs as to accepting when they are baptized into the church.

So we are back to our question of how do you determine when EGW is speaking as a prophet or it is her personal opinion. The example you gave is one that the Adventists teach is her speaking as a prophet but you have told us that it was only her opinion.

Furthermore this belief directly contradicts the bible when Peter is told that all foods are clean. Not only was he told that but from that point on that was the practice of the Christians.

 

[pedja]

There is nothing wrong with that but Adventists have expanded this to mean that one cannot eat meat, pork, etc. You explained that dietary laws were only the opinion of EGW - however they are actually incorporated into their basic beliefs. These are not optional beliefs - they are beliefs that an Adventists signs as to accepting when they are baptized into the church.

So we are back to our question of how do you determine when EGW is speaking as a prophet or it is her personal opinion. The example you gave is one that the Adventists teach is her speaking as a prophet but you have told us that it was only her opinion.

Furthermore this belief directly contradicts the bible when Peter is told that all foods are clean. Not only was he told that but from that point on that was the practice of the Christians.

I dont think I ever mentioned any diatery laws, what I meant is when she is advising on eating less of something, I dont even remember what it was, but it was clearly her opinion.

But since you`re so keen on that diatery thing (which personaly does not bother me at all) why did God forbid to eat the unclean animals in the first place?!

 

[MarysRoses]

I dont think I ever mentioned any diatery laws, what I meant is when she is advising on eating less of something, I dont even remember what it was, but it was clearly her opinion.

But since you`re so keen on that diatery thing (which personaly does not bother me at all) why did God forbid to eat the unclean animals in the first place?!

The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, we are now no longer under that schoolmaster.

Not eating pork because it can be an unhealthy and fatty food choice, is one thing, saying that it is a sin to eat pork (as my SDA mother’s local church teaches) is entirely another issue.

Why God chose to forbid certain foods under the old covenant is not something we can know. We can guess - some of the forbidden foods would be considered unhealthy today. That guess however, is far from a certainty; some of the food laws don’t seem to have any actual health reasons. The New Testament however is clear, we are not to judge each other over our choices of food or drink, or even in our observance of a sabbath day.

Jesus himself said it was not what goes into our bodies, but what comes out of our mouths, that makes us unclean.

MarysRoses

 

[pedja]

The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, we are now no longer under that schoolmaster.

Not eating pork because it can be an unhealthy and fatty food choice, is one thing, saying that it is a sin to eat pork (as my SDA mother’s local church teaches) is entirely another issue.

Why God chose to forbid certain foods under the old covenant is not something we can know. We can guess - some of the forbidden foods would be considered unhealthy today. That guess however, is far from a certainty; some of the food laws don’t seem to have any actual health reasons. The New Testament however is clear, we are not to judge each other over our choices of food or drink, or even in our observance of a sabbath day.

Jesus himself said it was not what goes into our bodies, but what comes out of our mouths, that makes us unclean.

MarysRoses

So did anything change with the animals then, why were they unclean before and then not anymore?!

 

[MarysRoses]

So did anything change with the animals then, why were they unclean before and then not anymore?!

I think, like most Adventists I know, you are equating ‘clean’ and ‘unclean’ with ‘healthy’ and ‘unhealthy’.

I do not find defining ‘unclean’ to be equivalent to ‘unhealthy’ to be a biblically defensible position. Many things were considered unclean that cannot be shown to be unhealthy. Is it unhealthy to eat with persons outside your own religious faith? Is it unhealthy to wear clothing made from mixed fibers? Is it unhealthy to eat meat and dairy products at the same meal? All of those things and more were considered ‘unclean’, but you would be hard pressed to find health reasons for their prohibition.

MarysRoses

 

[pedja]

I think, like most Adventists I know, you are equating ‘clean’ and ‘unclean’ with ‘healthy’ and ‘unhealthy’.

I do not find defining ‘unclean’ to be equivalent to ‘unhealthy’ to be a biblically defensible position. Many things were considered unclean that cannot be shown to be unhealthy. Is it unhealthy to eat with persons outside your own religious faith? Is it unhealthy to wear clothing made from mixed fibers? Is it unhealthy to eat meat and dairy products at the same meal? All of those things and more were considered ‘unclean’, but you would be hard pressed to find health reasons for their prohibition.

MarysRoses

No, what I mean is when God gave the law what to eat and what not to eat, why was that? For what reason? Were those unclean animals bad for your health or what was exactly the reason for it? And my question was like if God considered animal XY was not good for us to eat, did then afterwards anything change with that animal which made it harmless to eat?

 

[6YRSHOME]

God defined the dietary laws in the same way he gave the rest of the Mosaic Law. Leviticus 11:1. It starts with "The Lord said to Moses and Aaron.’ Speak to the **Israelites **and tell them: Of all the land animals these are the ones you may eat,…’ "
The law’s he gave were a covenant between Himself and Israel. St. Peter and the council of Jeruselem later declared all things clean.
After all Moses and his decendants had no such eating restriction. They ate everything.

 

[pedja]

God defined the dietary laws in the same way he gave the rest of the Mosaic Law. Leviticus 11:1. It starts with "The Lord said to Moses and Aaron.’ Speak to the **Israelites **and tell them: Of all the land animals these are the ones you may eat,…’ "
The law’s he gave were a covenant between Himself and Israel. St. Peter and the council of Jeruselem later declared all things clean.
After all Moses and his decendants had no such eating restriction. They ate everything.

you`re not really answering my question

 

[6YRSHOME]

The clean and unclean diet restrictions were part of the covenant between God and Isreal. Just like the ritual washing and the childbirth riturals and circumcision. These were thing that were fulfilled with the coming of Christ. It was never about health, it was about setting God’s chosen people apart.
If it were unhealthy why would He have waited to tell His people? He told Noah and his family after the flood that “every living thing that is on the earth is food for you.”

 

[Maria1212]

The safest way to go is to see if it contradicts the Bible. I`m really not an expert on EGW but I remember reading when she would give some health advice, what and what not to eat, I always considered those things to be clearly her personal opinion. I always wanted to get a bit deeper into the Ellen White matter to actually find out for myself what to think about her.

Is the Clearwood Bible considered official Adventist doctrine? Are its contents considered personal opinion (which means subject to debate and could contain errors) or is it considered revelation?

Are all books sold under Adventist publishing companies considered official doctrine?

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[Maria1212]

pedja;2031682:

Hi Maria

However I dont believe it`s an official teaching from our church which postulates the exact date. QUOTE]

Hi Pedja,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn`t Ellen White incorrectly predict the date of the end times?

Sincerely,

Maria1212

I didn`t want this question to get lost in the shuffle. Was her prediction merely her personal opinion, and not that of a prophet?