Seventh-day Adventist's Sabbath and Catholic's Sunday

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(from wikipedia)
According to the Jewish Encyclopedia,[4] aẓeret is the name given to it in Leviticus 23:36; Numbers 29:35; Nehemiah 8:18; 2Chronicles 7:9. It is not mentioned in Deuteronomy 16, and is found only in those parts of the Bible known as the Priestly Code. Like aẓarah (Amos 5:21; Isaiah 1:13; Joel 1:14), aẓeret denotes “day of assembly,” from aẓar = “to hold back” or “keep in”; hence also the name aẓeret given to the seventh day of Pesaḥ (Deuteronomy 16:8). Owing, however, to the fact that both Shemini Atzeret and the seventh day of Pesaḥ are called aẓeret, the name was taken to mean “the closing festival.”[4]!
S!ignificance[edit]!
Shemini: Relationship to Sukkot[edit]! When Shemini Atzeret is mentioned in the Torah (Pentateuch), it is always mentioned in the context of the seven-day festival of Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles, which it immediately follows. For example, Sukkot is described in detail in Leviticus 23:33-43. Shemini Atzeret is mentioned there only in verse 39.! The Hebrew word shemini means eighth. This refers to the date of Shemini Atzeret relative to Sukkot; it falls on the eighth day.[note 1] It is therefore often assumed that Shemini Atzeret is simply the eighth day of Sukkot. That characterization, however, is only partly accurate.! The celebration of Sukkot is characterized by the use of the sukkah (booth or tabernacle) and the Four Species (tree branches and fruit used in the celebration).[note 2] However, the Torah specifies use of those objects for seven days only, not eight.[5] The observance of Shemini Atzeret therefore differs in substantial ways from that of Sukkot. The Talmud[6] describes Shemini Atzeret with the words “a holiday in its own right” (regel bifnei atzmo).! The Talmud describes six ways in which Shemini Atzeret differs from Sukkot. Four of these relate principally to the Temple service. Two others remain relevant to modern celebration of the holiday. First, the blessing known as Shehecheyanu is recited on the night of Shemini Atzeret, just as it is on the first night of all other major Jewish holidays.[7](pp306-7 and 1186) Second, the holiday is referred to distinctively as “Shemini Atzeret” and not as “Sukkot” in the prayer service.7! Immediately below that discussion, however, the Talmud describes Shemini Atzeret as the “end holiday of the festival [of Sukkot]”.[6] The context here is that the Sukkot obligations of joy and recitation of Hallel (Psalms 113-118) last eight days. This is also why one of Sukkot’s liturgical aliases, “Time of Our Happiness” (zman simḥatenu), continues to be used to describe Shemini Atzeret (and by extension Simchat Torah) in prayers.7! S!hemini Atzeret is therefore simultaneously “a holiday in its own right” and the “end holiday of [Sukkot]”.[6]!

This day has a DUALITY as a HOLY DAY that is simultaneously considered to be celebrated as b!eing both connected to the Seventh Day and a separate festival in it’s own right.

In Lev 23:33 the Bible speaks of the “feast of Booths” ( feast of tabernacles or sukkot) which has the first and the eighth days declared as HOLY DAYS. It was called the Feast of the Lord and God tells Moses that they are to do this so that their
(Lev 23:43)"…descendants may realize that, when I lead them out of Egypt, I made them dwell in booths. I, the LORD, am your GOD." Later this feast is to be obligatory for all Jews and follows the day of atonement.

Now Jesus’ resurrection certainly fits all of these molds and his death certainly atoned for our sins. The resurrection is the EIGHTH day because the end of the holiday (forever!!!). HE IS OUR LORD. Nothing needs atoning anymore. It is a do-over with God.
 
Hi dreamfleur,

Thank you for sharing those very important insights! Very informative!

And welcome Home!!! Our prayers our with you on your journey from Adventism to Catholicism, and as your journey currently leads you through R.C.I.A!!! I crossed the Tiber at Easter Vigil 2009.

In fact our prayers are offered for all currently in R.C.I.A. throughout the entire world!!!

God bless all!!!
 
dreamfleur said:
(from wikipedia)
According to the Jewish Encyclopedia,[4] aẓeret is the name given to it in Leviticus 23:36; Numbers 29:35; Nehemiah 8:18; 2Chronicles 7:9. It is not mentioned in Deuteronomy 16, and is found only in those parts of the Bible known as the Priestly Code. Like aẓarah (Amos 5:21; Isaiah 1:13; Joel 1:14), aẓeret denotes “day of assembly,” from aẓar = “to hold back” or “keep in”; hence also the name aẓeret given to the seventh day of Pesaḥ (Deuteronomy 16:8). Owing, however, to the fact that both Shemini Atzeret and the seventh day of Pesaḥ are called aẓeret, the name was taken to mean “the closing festival.”[4]!
S!ignificance[edit]!
Shemini: Relationship to Sukkot[edit]! When Shemini Atzeret is mentioned in the Torah (Pentateuch), it is always mentioned in the context of the seven-day festival of Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles, which it immediately follows. For example, Sukkot is described in detail in Leviticus 23:33-43. Shemini Atzeret is mentioned there only in verse 39.! The Hebrew word shemini means eighth. This refers to the date of Shemini Atzeret relative to Sukkot; it falls on the eighth day.[note 1] It is therefore often assumed that Shemini Atzeret is simply the eighth day of Sukkot. That characterization, however, is only partly accurate.! The celebration of Sukkot is characterized by the use of the sukkah (booth or tabernacle) and the Four Species (tree branches and fruit used in the celebration).[note 2] However, the Torah specifies use of those objects for seven days only, not eight.[5] The observance of Shemini Atzeret therefore differs in substantial ways from that of Sukkot. The Talmud[6] describes Shemini Atzeret with the words “a holiday in its own right” (regel bifnei atzmo).! The Talmud describes six ways in which Shemini Atzeret differs from Sukkot. Four of these relate principally to the Temple service. Two others remain relevant to modern celebration of the holiday. First, the blessing known as Shehecheyanu is recited on the night of Shemini Atzeret, just as it is on the first night of all other major Jewish holidays.[7](pp306-7 and 1186) Second, the holiday is referred to distinctively as “Shemini Atzeret” and not as “Sukkot” in the prayer service.7! Immediately below that discussion, however, the Talmud describes Shemini Atzeret as the “end holiday of the festival [of Sukkot]”.[6] The context here is that the Sukkot obligations of joy and recitation of Hallel (Psalms 113-118) last eight days. This is also why one of Sukkot’s liturgical aliases, “Time of Our Happiness” (zman simḥatenu), continues to be used to describe Shemini Atzeret (and by extension Simchat Torah) in prayers.7! S!hemini Atzeret is therefore simultaneously “a holiday in its own right” and the “end holiday of [Sukkot]”.[6]!

This day has a DUALITY as a HOLY DAY that is simultaneously considered to be celebrated as b!eing both connected to the Seventh Day and a separate festival in it’s own right.

In Lev 23:33 the Bible speaks of the “feast of Booths” ( feast of tabernacles or sukkot) which has the first and the eighth days declared as HOLY DAYS. It was called the Feast of the Lord and God tells Moses that they are to do this so that their
(Lev 23:43)"…descendants may realize that, when I lead them out of Egypt, I made them dwell in booths. I, the LORD, am your GOD." Later this feast is to be obligatory for all Jews and follows the day of atonement.

Now Jesus’ resurrection certainly fits all of these molds and his death certainly atoned for our sins. The resurrection is the EIGHTH day because the end of the holiday (forever!!!). HE IS OUR LORD. Nothing needs atoning anymore. It is a do-over with God.
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I will be printing this out. Excellent points.
 
Something that we must also remember that Jesus calls himself the Son of Man. Why is this important, well when was man made? On the Sixth day, Genesis 1:24-31, when was Jesus taken to the courts? On the 6th day, which is Friday, parallel to Genesis.

Now Jesus resurrects on the first day, which is Sunday, remember when he came a new creation began. That’s why the Church, through the early church fathers, they say that we celebrate on Sunday’s because it was the day Jesus resurrected and the beginning of a new creation.
 
dreamfleur said:
Thank you Pythons 🙂
Coming from you I take it as a great compliment:thumbsup:
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That was nice of you to say dremfleur but in the big scheme of things I am really nothing…
…Pray and read is my advice to ya - I have way more questions then I do answers lol.
…If you can download and install it a must have is:

clerus.org/bibliaclerus/index_eng.html

That provides a context of Scriptures that is nothing short of amazing - you can see how the Church…
…Has understood and taught on subjects throughout the years - all the way back to the start!
 
Anne88 said:
If the Sabbath was going to be changed from the 7th day to the 1st day, why did Jesus not say so? Why did He say in Matthew 24:20, speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem and last day events that believers should “pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath.” ?

Why is it that the 4th commandment is almost the only one that we say we should not follow, when Jesus Himself kept all of the commandments and in Mat 24:20 clearly expected His followers to be keeping not only the other 9 commandments, but also the 4th, up to 40 years after He ascended to Heaven?

May God bless you all
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Hi Anne88,

First, please be clear that the Catholic Church does not teach that the sabbath commandment of the Decalogue should not be followed. Quite the contrary, and one only needs to do a little research and read the sections in The Catechism of the Catholic Church (it can be found online) dealing with this.

I’m not sure if time allows you to follow this thread any longer, but you raise a point in Matt.24:20, as most SDAs do, that this is an expectation of Jesus’ that His followers would be keeping the sabbath 40 years later when Jerusalem and the Temple would be destroyed. But is this what Jesus is teaching here?

Ahhh… the end of the world narrative of Jesus to His disciples. In context, this event is documented in Matthew 23&24 and Mark 12:35-13:37.

After Jesus finishes teaching the multitude and His Disciples (a denunciation of the scribes and pharisees), He and His disciples leave the temple, and His disciples point out the buildings of the Temple, and Jesus begins to talk about the end. His disciples ask when this will happen and Jesus tells them.

So, the verses in question:

Matt.24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

So not only does Jesus acknowledge that there will be people keeping the sabbath at this point in time, but also that there will be pregnant women, nursing mothters, and winter at this point in time.

Now, personally, living on the east coast of the U.S.A. this winter, I can see why fleeing in the winter could be a hardship and very difficult.

Having been with my wife when she was pregnant, and having little babies who nursed, I can see why fleeing while being pregnant and/or nursing infants would be a hardship and very difficult.

I think that Jesus is telling His disciples here that this flight, which people would take if they heeded HIs warning, was going to be so horrendous that being pregnant, having infants, or doing so in bad weather, would be a hardship and difficult beyond imagination…“woe unto them”.

Do any SDAs reading this agree, that this is the point Jesus is making here? If yes, then we move on to the next part of this verse. If no, then why not?

So now the question is, what is there in keeping the sabbath that would present a hardship and difficulty for sabbath observers in fleeing, similar to the hardship and difficulty for those who were pregnant, nursing infants, or fleeing in bad weather?

I would ask any and all “sabbath keepers” to share their thoughts on the question above.

In the next post I will present 2 scenarios regarding my thoughts on these verses.

God bless all!!!
 
Hello all,

Recently a SDA friend of mine answered the above question by saying that being uprooted from your home and fleeing for your life would not be conducive to observing the sabbath, and therefore why Jesus told His followers to pray that their flight would not be on the sabbath day. Below is my response to him, and my thoughts on what Jesus is actaully teaching here.

"I would say that being uprooted from home and fleeing for your life is not conducive to anything…except survial.

I am in complete agreement with you regarding your thoughts on fleeing not being conducive to “proper sabbath observance”. I do have some questions for you, as well as two scenarios that I think this verse presents.

Scenerio 1: As you said, being uprooted and fleeing for your life is not conducive to proper sabbath observance.

My thoughts and questions to you regarding this are based on the following verses: Matt.12:1-12; Mark 2:23-3:6; Luke 6:1-11; Luke 13:10-17; Luke 14:1-6; John 5:1-18; and John 9:1-34.

The stories contained in these veses relate similar themes:
  1. Jesus heals on the sabbath day.
  2. Jesus is accused of breaking the sabbath law for doing this, by the observers of the Law, the Jews and Jewish leaders.
  3. Jesus points out that the Jews and the Jewish leaders would save their animals, if endangered, on the sabbath day, which was also in violation of the sabbath law.
  4. Jesus points out that humans are more important than animals, and even the Law itself (the grinding of grain by His disciples, and David in Temple with the shewbread examples in these verses).
  5. Jesus points out that it is ok to do good on the sabbath day and save and heal humans.
  6. After this, in each story, the Jews and Jewish leaders thought even harder about how to destroy Jesus.
I would feel safe in saying that a dicsiple of Jesus who fled from the coming destruction of Jerusalem, on the sabbath day, in order to protect his family from death would be doing good on the sabbath day…and therefore not in any violation of the sabbath law, or anything conducive to proper sabbath observance…based on Jesus’ teaching.

My question to you, and all SDAs, is, what specifiic things conducive to proper sabbath observance do you, as a follower of Jesus Christ, believe you are bound to observe that would trump, outweigh, and prohibit the doing of good on that day by fleeing and saving the life of your family as followers of Jesus Christ?

Scenario 2: My thoughts regarding this are based on the same verses in Scenario 1 above.

Since Jesus is addressing His disciples, and knowing and experiencing the rage and anger of the Jew’s and Jewish leader’s accusations of Jesus’ sabbath breaking, I think that Jesus is warning His followers of the danger that they would face from their Jewish neighbors and Jewish leaders, who would still be observing the sabbath, and once again angry at these followers of Jesus who are once again “breaking” the sabbath observance as directed in the Law, and thus subject to being stoned to death for that violation in accord with the Law.

Based on Jesus’ teaching of the sanctity of life in regard to sabbath observance, I think the hardship for His followers in fleeing on a sabbath day is more in line with scenario 2, rather than scenario 1.

God bless all!!!
 
spina1953 said:
All I can say is great post!
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I concur, it is a great post. And I agree with it.
I still can see that it shows that Jesus expected His followers to be keeping the Sabbath at that time as well, as well as the fact brought out by another poster that the gates to the city may/should have been shut on the Sabbath.
I also still believe that the prophecy in Matt 24 refers not only to the destruction of Jerusalem, but also to the Time of the End.

The Bible says that Jesus meant for His followers to observe His Father’s commandments… all of them, just as He Himself did.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

Jesus came to magnify His Father’s Law, to show how the Law, including the Sabbath, should really be kept. The leaders of the Jews had made many extra ‘rules’ for the Sabbath that had made the Sabbath a burden, not a delight. They were proud of themselves for ‘keeping’ the Sabbath (as according to their many added rules) and had lost sight of the true meaning and reason for the Sabbath - that it is a memorial of Creation - a sign that God made the world and can re-create us in His image)

The Pharisees, had a salvation by works mentality. They believed that their ‘perfect’ obedience to the Law could save them. They were neither keeping the Sabbath, nor did they have correct motives for keeping God’s Law of unselfish love.

Also, again, according to Rev 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and **worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. **

Which is the first of the 3 angels messages, that to worship God as Creator, is to observe the Sabbath, the memorial of Creation.

Again in Revelation, according to the following two verses, the people of God are those who keep His commandments - not because it saves them, but because they love Him and He empowers them to obey.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints:** here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
**

Thank you for your patience and kindness Patrick Murebil, in talking with me.
God bless
 
Anne88 said:
I concur, it is a great post. And I agree with it.
I still can see that it shows that Jesus expected His followers to be keeping the Sabbath at that time as well, as well as the fact brought out by another poster that the gates to the city may/should have been shut on the Sabbath.
I also still believe that the prophecy in Matt 24 refers not only to the destruction of Jerusalem, but also to the Time of the End.

The Bible says that Jesus meant for His followers to observe His Father’s commandments… all of them, just as He Himself did.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

Jesus came to magnify His Father’s Law, to show how the Law, including the Sabbath, should really be kept. The leaders of the Jews had made many extra ‘rules’ for the Sabbath that had made the Sabbath a burden, not a delight. They were proud of themselves for ‘keeping’ the Sabbath (as according to their many added rules) and had lost sight of the true meaning and reason for the Sabbath - that it is a memorial of Creation - a sign that God made the world and can re-create us in His image)

The Pharisees, had a salvation by works mentality. They believed that their ‘perfect’ obedience to the Law could save them. They were neither keeping the Sabbath, nor did they have correct motives for keeping God’s Law of unselfish love.

Also, again, according to Rev 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and **worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. **

Which is the first of the 3 angels messages, that to worship God as Creator, is to observe the Sabbath, the memorial of Creation.

Again in Revelation, according to the following two verses, the people of God are those who keep His commandments - not because it saves them, but because they love Him and He empowers them to obey.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints:** here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
**

Thank you for your patience and kindness Patrick Murebil, in talking with me.
God bless
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The Book of revelation is a very difficult book to read and to understand. Also I would say that much to much speculations have been made that are so far out as not to be believable . I think Jesus was indeed speaking of the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, yet, in a vague way also of the end of the world as we know it… That being said, in reading that particular passage it seems to be more about the Temple and Jerusalem than about the worlds end. Jesus did away wit the old law when He made His new covenant which made full the old covenant, and while we Catholic’s have never done away with the Sabbath, we do however celebrate the Lord’s Day on Sunday why because we are followers of Christ.
 
spina1953 said:
The Book of revelation is a very difficult book to read and to understand. Also I would say that much to much speculations have been made that are so far out as not to be believable . I think Jesus was indeed speaking of the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, yet, in a vague way also of the end of the world as we know it… That being said, in reading that particular passage it seems to be more about the Temple and Jerusalem than about the worlds end. Jesus did away wit the old law when He made His new covenant which made full the old covenant, and while we Catholic’s have never done away with the Sabbath, we do however celebrate the Lord’s Day on Sunday why because we are followers of Christ.
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The very name of this book, The Revelation of Jesus Christ - doesn’t signify secrecy or inability to be understood, rather it implies revealing, and understanding. As with most prophecy, it is easier to understand it after the prophecy has come to pass. As such, it is now much easier to understand most of Revelation. The book was written for the Time of the End - which we are most definitely living in now. It was written to be understood. It was not sealed like the prophecies of Daniel were at their time of writing. The true seeker who allows the Holy Spirit to be their teacher will understand the book. 🙂

Yep, Jesus did away with the sacrificial laws/services of Moses, because it was fulfilled in Jesus. (although we can still learn much about God’s plan of salvation by studying the Sanctuary and it’s services - it’s so beautiful) But not God’s commandments… as per the verses from John and Revelation in my previous post.

God bless
 
Anne88 said:
The very name of this book, The Revelation of Jesus Christ - doesn’t signify secrecy or inability to be understood, rather it implies revealing, and understanding. As with most prophecy, it is easier to understand it after the prophecy has come to pass. As such, it is now much easier to understand most of Revelation. The book was written for the Time of the End - which we are most definitely living in now. It was written to be understood. It was not sealed like the prophecies of Daniel were at their time of writing. The true seeker who allows the Holy Spirit to be their teacher will understand the book. 🙂

Yep, Jesus did away with the sacrificial laws/services of Moses, because it was fulfilled in Jesus. (although we can still learn much about God’s plan of salvation by studying the Sanctuary and it’s services - it’s so beautiful) But not God’s commandments… as per the verses from John and Revelation in my previous post.

God bless
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I am so happy to hear that you understand Revelation so well when even the best Bibical scholars have a hard time understanding it. That being said I think I will stick to my Catholic beliefs given to me that has been handed down from he Apostles having been taught by Jesus Himself.
 
Anne88 said:
I concur, it is a great post. And I agree with it.
I still can see that it shows that Jesus expected His followers to be keeping the Sabbath at that time as well, as well as the fact brought out by another poster that the gates to the city may/should have been shut on the Sabbath.
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Hi Anne88,

And I thank you for continuing to talk with me!

I have a few questions regarding your post, so I will just ask one question at a time so we don’t go all over the place.

If you agree with both scenarios I presented regarding Matt.24:15-20, and you believe that the followers of Jesus were keeping the sabbath as well as the Jews who had not converted to Jesus, then why would fleeing on the sabbath been a hardship, eliciting a warning from Jesus, only for Christians who were observing the sabbath and not for the Jews observing the same sabbath?

God bless all!!!
 
Patrick_Murebil said:
Hi Anne88,

And I thank you for continuing to talk with me!

I have a few questions regarding your post, so I will just ask one question at a time so we don’t go all over the place.

If you agree with both scenarios I presented regarding Matt.24:15-20, and you believe that the followers of Jesus were keeping the sabbath as well as the Jews who had not converted to Jesus, then why would fleeing on the sabbath been a hardship, eliciting a warning from Jesus, only for Christians who were observing the sabbath and not for the Jews observing the same sabbath?

God bless all!!!
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Jesus was, in these passages, talking specifically to His followers, warning them.
 
Anne88 said:
Jesus was, in these passages, talking specifically to His followers, warning them.
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So why did Jesus ignore warning sabbath keepers who were not His followers, but whose custom it also was to observe the sabbath…the Jews?
 
Patrick_Murebil said:
So why did Jesus ignore warning sabbath keepers who were not His followers, but whose custom it also was to observe the sabbath…the Jews?
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It wasn’t relevant to that current discussion. Just like you wouldn’t warn your neighbours son about talking to strangers when you are discussing it with your own son and your neighbours son is not present.
 
Anne88 said:
It wasn’t relevant to that current discussion. Just like you wouldn’t warn your neighbours son about talking to strangers when you are discussing it with your own son and your neighbours son is not present.
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It has come to my attention that Ellen G. White, the Seventh Day Adventist self-proclaimed prophet, stated in her book,* Life Sketches *of Ellen G. White, pg. 95-96; “Jesus raised the cover of the ark, and I beheld the tables of stone on which the Ten Commandments were written. I was amazed as I saw the fourth commandment in the very center of the ten precepts, with a soft halo of light encircling it. Said the angel, “It is the only one of the ten which defines the living God who created the heavens and the earth and all things that are therein. (In other words, what Ms. White is saying is that according to her vision, the commandment about the Sabbath is the most important. Let’s see if Jesus said that.
•Matthew 19:16-20; Mark 10:18-20; Luke 18:18-20 when Jesus speaks to the rich young man, the young man asks Jesus what he has to do to go to Heaven. Jesus tells him to follow the commandments. The young man says what they are. Jesus starts naming the commandments, and never says anything about the Sabbath. Jesus could of easily said, Keep the Sabbath Holy, but he didn’t.
•Matthew 22:35-40; Mark 12:28-31 and one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets. Nowhere did Jesus say anything about the Sabbath.
•Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.” The most important Commandment is to love God with all your heart, followed by loving your neighbor as you do yourself, never does he mention Keep the Sabbath.
•**Romans 13:9-10 **Paul mentions the commandments and never says anything about the Sabbath
•Leviticus 19:18 you shall not take vengeance or bear any grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.
•Deuteronomy 6:4-5 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD; and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
 
I have been reading this thread, especially because my boyfriend is SDA and we’ve been trying to understand each other’s faith. This thread is long and I’m not sure if my question has been answered.

When I discuss the authority of the church, their pastor gave me this answer (see below). If i’m not a theologian, how do I answer this?

Did Christ authorize the church to change the sabbath? There is no such text in the Bible. Other church may use the text in Matthew 18:18 RSV (cf. 16:19 RSV) which says, “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This translation implies that it is the heaven that shall follow the earth. Let’s explore a careful analysis of the tenses in the original language of the text in The Greek New Testament of Matthew 18:18: “Amen lego humin hosa ean desete epi tes ges estai dedemena en ourano, kai hosa ean lusete epi tes ges estai lelumena en ouranou.” Based on Wesley J. Perschbacher (ed.), New Analytical Greek Lexicon [Peobody, MA: Hendrikson, 1990], “estai” (p. 175) is in 3rd person, singular, future, indicative which can be translated as “shall.” The words “desete”(p. 90) and “lusete” (p. 261) are both in 2nd person, plural aorist, active subjunctive, so “desete” should be translated as “you bind” and “lusete” as “you loose.” The words “dedemena” (p. 86) and “lelumena” (p. 256) are both in nominative, plural, neuter, perfect, passive, participle. “The perfect expresses the continuance of completed action” (William Hersey Davis, Beginner’s Grammar of the Greek New Testament[New York: Harper & Row, 1923], p.152). “Passive voice represents the subject as acted upon” (Davis, p. 36), while participle expresses “durative action” (Davis, p. 99). So, the Greek words, “dedemena” is rightly translated as “have been bound,” and “lelumena” is rightly translated as “have been loosed.” The Bible Version which is most faithful to grammar of the Greek text is the New American Standard Bible (NASB) which translated Matthew 18:18 as: “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” That implies that earth shall follow heaven. That is parallel to the Lord’s prayer, “. . . Thy will be done, On earth as it is in Heaven.” Earth should follow the will of heaven.

HELP PLEASE. Thanks.
 
catholicDoktora said:
I have been reading this thread, especially because my boyfriend is SDA and we’ve been trying to understand each other’s faith. This thread is long and I’m not sure if my question has been answered.

When I discuss the authority of the church, their pastor gave me this answer (see below). If i’m not a theologian, how do I answer this?

Did Christ authorize the church to change the sabbath? There is no such text in the Bible. Other church may use the text in Matthew 18:18 RSV (cf. 16:19 RSV) which says, “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This translation implies that it is the heaven that shall follow the earth. Let’s explore a careful analysis of the tenses in the original language of the text in The Greek New Testament of Matthew 18:18: “Amen lego humin hosa ean desete epi tes ges estai dedemena en ourano, kai hosa ean lusete epi tes ges estai lelumena en ouranou.” Based on Wesley J. Perschbacher (ed.), New Analytical Greek Lexicon [Peobody, MA: Hendrikson, 1990], “estai” (p. 175) is in 3rd person, singular, future, indicative which can be translated as “shall.” The words “desete”(p. 90) and “lusete” (p. 261) are both in 2nd person, plural aorist, active subjunctive, so “desete” should be translated as “you bind” and “lusete” as “you loose.” The words “dedemena” (p. 86) and “lelumena” (p. 256) are both in nominative, plural, neuter, perfect, passive, participle. “The perfect expresses the continuance of completed action” (William Hersey Davis, Beginner’s Grammar of the Greek New Testament[New York: Harper & Row, 1923], p.152). “Passive voice represents the subject as acted upon” (Davis, p. 36), while participle expresses “durative action” (Davis, p. 99). So, the Greek words, “dedemena” is rightly translated as “have been bound,” and “lelumena” is rightly translated as “have been loosed.” The Bible Version which is most faithful to grammar of the Greek text is the New American Standard Bible (NASB) which translated Matthew 18:18 as: “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” That implies that earth shall follow heaven. That is parallel to the Lord’s prayer, “. . . Thy will be done, On earth as it is in Heaven.” Earth should follow the will of heaven.

HELP PLEASE. Thanks.
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Read my text above yours. Their so called prophet ellen G. White said said she saw a vision in heaven where supposedly the greatest commandment is Saturday, but Jesus in earth said the greatest commandment is to love God.
 
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