Seventh-day Adventist's Sabbath and Catholic's Sunday

[spina1953]

Spina,

Yes - the paradox for SDA’s is significant in this particular case because…
…To validate their “prophetic origin” requires that Jesus was killed.
…ON the 6th day of the week, AT the Jewish Passover, IN 31 A.D.

Due to the precise & predictable movement of the Moon we can easily duplicate…
…The exact phase of the moon for day, month & year can be accurately calculated.
…Thus we can look back at 31 A.D. to determine IF Passover coincided with a Julian or Gregorian Friday, Saturday & Sunday.

This has been done MANY times and a Friday Cross @ the Passover is IMPOSSIBLE in 31 A.D…
…What is possible however is a 6th day of the week Cross calculated from a Luni-Solar Calendar.
…However it places the 7th day Sabbath on a day other than a Gregorian Saturday!

Such is the termination of any argument from SDA’s about Saturday Sabbath!

Well said!! For me it does not matter concerning the Sabbath as the Catholic Church never really did away with it. It has always been my understanding that the main reason we have our catholic Mass on Sunday is due to the fact that Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week and that is the day that the Apostles celebrated the Eucharist in memory of our Lord. While Jesus did not do away with the Old Testament Covenant, Jesus did in fact make a new Covenant as from what the Gospel says about the last Supper. I would like to add that it was due to the Jewish religious leaders that said that Christians were not allowed into the Temple to worship as they had been doing up to that point.

 

[Guilou67]

Actually we don’t believe that.

Many SDAs, myself included, also hold that abortion is murder and a breaking of the 6th commandment (which would be your 5th commandment - Thou shalt not kill)
Many SDAs, myself included, also believe that life begins at conception and that certain forms of contraception are also a breaking of the 6th commandment

We also don’t believe that all Sunday worshipers will be lost. We believe that God judges people based on the truth that they knew and practiced.

Most SDAs I know do not bash Catholics or Roman Catholicism. I do however know that there are some out there who do. This is not the Spirit of Christ, (1 John 4:20) and I would like to apologize to anyone who has ever experienced that negative reaction from a SDA. God loves all people and wants to lead them all into Truth and salvation.

As to the Sabbath question. There are many places in Acts where Paul is teaching and preaching and worshiping God in the churches on the Sabbath Day - the 7th day - as was his custom. (Acts 13:14,42,44; 17:2; 18:4) And even one Sabbath at a river where "prayer was made - worship - Acts 16:13) As to Paul meeting on the first day (as in the case where he was leaving the next day and wished to encourage the brethren) Do you also only worship God on Sunday? or do you hold prayer meetings, or Bible studies only on Sunday? God should be worshiped every day, but there is one special day that He set aside from the beginning as a holy, sanctified day. This day will also remain in the new earth Isaiah 66:22-23

If the Sabbath was going to be changed from the 7th day to the 1st day, why did Jesus not say so? Why did He say in Matthew 24:20, speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem and last day events that believers should “pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath.” ?

Why is it that the 4th commandment is almost the only one that we say we should not follow, when Jesus Himself kept all of the commandments and in Mat 24:20 clearly expected His followers to be keeping not only the other 9 commandments, but also the 4th, up to 40 years after He ascended to Heaven?

Not only this, but in Revelation it talks about God’s people being sealed with the seal (or mark) of God in their forehead, (in their mind - beliefs which result in actions) What is a seal? It is something that states the name, title, and territory. So God’s seal on His people is something that states His name, His title, and His territory, and there is only one thing in the Bible that does that and it is the fourth commandment. Name: God, Title: Creator, Territory: Heaven and earth.

I don’t keep the Sabbath Day or any of the commandments to be saved. In other words. I don’t believe that there is anything I can do that could earn me merit for heaven or salvation. I am saved by the grace granted to me when I believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God, and accept His perfect life, His death, and His resurrection. I do keep the Sabbath Day because I love Him and want to show my love to Him through keeping His commandments, and living and walking as Jesus did (in daily surrender to God the Father, and keeping His Father’s commandments - John 15:10), so that God may be glorified in my life. 1 John 2:3-6; John 14:15

May God bless you all

You must be a very special SDA person. As for the part of my family that is SDA they are very presumptuous and disrespectful again anything about Catholicism. Last year I was showing my sister in law my New Jerusalem Catholic Bible, she actually threw the BIBLE away from her like It was something dirty. Was it a good attitude for a Christian? I am still in shock each time that I thought about that incident. And for some reason I feel sad for her. You seem to be a very nice person from your writing. May God bless you.

 

[Guilou67]

The Sabbath is not a ceremonial commandment. It was instituted at Creation, long before there were any Hebrews. and according to Ezekiel 20:12 and 20:20 - the Sabbath is a sign that God is the one who sanctifies us (sets us apart, and makes us holy - saves us/re-creates us in His image(character))
So worshiping God on His Sabbath shows that we believe that He is God and that He is the only one who can save us and change us - There is nothing we can do to be saved or to be perfected. It is faith in action

The Sabbath was instituted at creation, but wasn’t given to the Jewish people until later one. Do you have any idea why God skipped : Adam, Noah, Abraham and so … until Moses?

 

[Pythons]

You must be a very special SDA person. As for the part of my family that is SDA they are very presumptuous and disrespectful again anything about Catholicism. Last year I was showing my sister in law my New Jerusalem Catholic Bible, she actually threw the BIBLE away from her like It was something dirty. Was it a good attitude for a Christian? I am still in shock each time that I thought about that incident. And for some reason I feel sad for her. You seem to be a very nice person from your writing. May God bless you.

I second what you say there - Anne88 is light years different then what we’ve grown to expect from the SDA’s…
…She does indeed seem to be a very nice person.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

None of Matthew 28:9, 17 support Sunday (first day) worship either.
If you compare it to the other Gospels, Such as John 20:19, it mentions that it was the first day BUT that it was evening and for the Jews… the day began in evening, so technically it was now the 2nd day of the week.

And of course the women worshiped Jesus when they saw Him… wouldn’t you? even if it was a Tuesday or a Thursday? I sure would… in fact most Christians do worship Jesus every day of the week in their own homes (if they don’t, they should). It doesn’t change the fact that the 7th day is the Sabbath, or that Jesus kept the Sabbath and told His followers to keep His Father’s commands as He had kept them.

Since Creation, Sabbath was always the 7th day of the week. This was again made clear at Sinai. And again in the Gospels when Jesus kept trying to show the Jews how to properly keep the Sabbath.

Jesus clearly expected His followers to be keeping the Sabbath at the time when Jerusalem was destroyed which was 40 years after His ascension (as I pointed out in an earlier post), and seeing as that prophecy also alludes to the end of time, it can be said that He still expects His followers to be keeping the Sabbath when He returns.

Sorry to take so long to reply, I am very busy with my work.
God bless

Hi Anne88,

No need to apologize…I certainly understand that we all have priorities in life that take precedence over writing on here. I do appreciate you responding!!

If John 20:19, was referring to the second day of the week technically, don’t you think the Biblical author would have written, “second day”? But literally, the writer writes “first day”. I think we need to be careful changing the words of the Bible to something other than what it actaully says.

You are correct that verses 9 and 17 in Matthew 28 do not support Sunday (first day) worship. What they support is Jesus worship. I find it so revealing how SDAs always refer to sabbath or sunday worship. It is about Jesus worship, not day worship.

The fact that Catholics worship Jesus on the weekly memorial of His resurrection, Sunday, in no way negates the fact that the sabbath is saturday…at least from recent Jewish history and belief for the past few thousand years to this very day.

But before we get into the discussion as to what Jesus expects from His follwers regarding worship of Him on the Sabbath or on Sunday, I would like to know what your thoughts are regarding what I shared concerning the chapters in the book of Acts where you said that Paul and Christians, believers in Jesus Christ, were going into the synagogues on the sabbath to worship.

You can find what I said in post numbers 85 and 86 on page 6 of this thread.

Do you agree with what I shared from the context and scriptures of the entire chapters in Acts?

If not, then please explain from the scriptures, the reasons for why you disagree. Thanks in advance! I look forward to your reply, but please do not feel rushed in any way…we all have so much going on in our lives these days. I do appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to share your thoughts and discuss!!

God bless all!!!

 

[Anne88]

Hi Anne88,

No need to apologize…I certainly understand that we all have priorities in life that take precedence over writing on here. I do appreciate you responding!!

If John 20:19, was referring to the second day of the week technically, don’t you think the Biblical author would have written, “second day”? But literally, the writer writes “first day”. I think we need to be careful changing the words of the Bible to something other than what it actaully says.

You are correct that verses 9 and 17 in Matthew 28 do not support Sunday (first day) worship. What they support is Jesus worship. I find it so revealing how SDAs always refer to sabbath or sunday worship. It is about Jesus worship, not day worship.

The fact that Catholics worship Jesus on the weekly memorial of His resurrection, Sunday, in no way negates the fact that the sabbath is saturday…at least from recent Jewish history and belief for the past few thousand years to this very day.

But before we get into the discussion as to what Jesus expects from His follwers regarding worship of Him on the Sabbath or on Sunday, I would like to know what your thoughts are regarding what I shared concerning the chapters in the book of Acts where you said that Paul and Christians, believers in Jesus Christ, were going into the synagogues on the sabbath to worship.

You can find what I said in post numbers 85 and 86 on page 6 of this thread.

Do you agree with what I shared from the context and scriptures of the entire chapters in Acts?

If not, then please explain from the scriptures, the reasons for why you disagree. Thanks in advance! I look forward to your reply, but please do not feel rushed in any way…we all have so much going on in our lives these days. I do appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to share your thoughts and discuss!!

God bless all!!!

Thanks all for your patience and kind words.

Yes, I agree, it is all about Jesus worship not day worship. I wish to worship Him as He commanded and ‘keep’ the Sabbath Holy as He commanded. (as well as worship Him everyday as He deserves)

I agree that Paul was looking to convert the Jews to Christianity in those texts, but I don’t see anything in those texts or the Bible that suggests that Paul was keeping any other day holy than the Sabbath. - and what better way to keep it holy than to spend it telling others the Gospel so that they can be set free by the Truth!

As to why the Sabbath was mentioned at Creation, but not again until Moses. Adam kept the Sabbath and it was passed down from generation to generation (not hard to believe because these people where more physically perfect in body and mind than we are today). It was still kept by those who obeyed God and that was why God didn’t have to restate it. Until the Hebrews were brought out of captivity from Egypt, an idol worshiping country, where they had been slaves for many years and had lost much of their identity as God’s unique people.

This same principle applies to the New Testament. It was understood by all the apostles and early Christians that the 7th day was the Sabbath, the day God commanded to keep holy. But God still knew that some people would forget or get confused, or not know, so in Revelation 14 He gives another call to the Sabbath for these last days.

“And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.” Rev 14:6,7 (emphasis added)

Here the message is to worship God as Creator
The only way to do that is to keep His Sabbath holy - as shown by the fourth commandment:

“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exodus 20:8-11 (emphasis added)

The Sabbath was always a memorial to Creation and to the God of Creation. It is also this way to remind us that God is the only one who can re-create us in His image.

love and blessings

 

[Pythons]

Anne88,

If evidence was presented on this issue ( of the Sabbath ) that you could authenticate…
…That resulted in an “either or” acceptance of 1) The Sabbath or 2) Ellen White.
…If you “had to” choose between the two - which one would you choose?

At this point this is a hypothetical question as to your ultimate determination…
…After you’ve witnessed & weighed the facts.

 

[Anne88]

Anne88,

If evidence was presented on this issue ( of the Sabbath ) that you could authenticate…
…That resulted in an “either or” acceptance of 1) The Sabbath or 2) Ellen White.
…If you “had to” choose between the two - which one would you choose?

At this point this is a hypothetical question as to your ultimate determination…
…After you’ve witnessed & weighed the facts.

I’m not sure of the purpose of your question seeing as you already pointed out that Ellen White says that the Sabbath is the deciding issue in the last days.

I’m glad that I don’t have to choose between the two.
But I’d always choose what the Bible says - and I clearly see the Sabbath taught in the Bible.
Ellen White is not my Savior, she was simply a witness, an inspired instrument that God used to bring some of His forgotten Truths back into the light, and point people back to Jesus and the Bible, the inspired Word of God.
John 12:48

 

[Pythons]

I’m not sure of the purpose of your question seeing as you already pointed out that Ellen White says that the Sabbath is the deciding issue in the last days.

Yes, she said that, multiple times.

Anne88:

I’m glad that I don’t have to choose between the two.

You will.

Anne88:

But I’d always choose what the Bible says - and I clearly see the Sabbath taught in the Bible.

Ok, and the best part of what I’m going to share with you is that you still can…
…I’m not asking you to ever give up your “Sabbath”, in fact more power to you.
…For keeping it.

Anne88:

Ellen White is not my Savior, she was simply a witness, an inspired instrument that God used to bring some of His forgotten Truths back into the light, and point people back to Jesus and the Bible, the inspired Word of God.
John 12:48

Yes, for the time being let’s say that Ellen White was indeed inspired by God to say word for word what she said…
…Let’s say that The Father Himself told Ellen to teach that Christ was put to death in 31 A.D.
…And that this event took place on Friday at the Passover, in 31 A.D.

We really don’t have to say ‘let’s say’ because Ellen actually did say that Christ was crucified…
…In 31 A.D. & that it was on a Friday at the Passover of the Jews.
…Do you agree that Ellen White was explicit that these things were true?

I would like your statements on this prior to moving forward - if you are unaware of the importance Ellen placed on this date & why…
…It would be better for me to quote where she said these things.
…And why it was so important for her to say these things.

 

[Anne88]

Yes, for the time being let’s say that Ellen White was indeed inspired by God to say word for word what she said…
…Let’s say that The Father Himself told Ellen to teach that Christ was put to death in 31 A.D.
…And that this event took place on Friday at the Passover, in 31 A.D.

We really don’t have to say ‘let’s say’ because Ellen actually did say that Christ was crucified…
…In 31 A.D. & that it was on a Friday at the Passover of the Jews.
…Do you agree that Ellen White was explicit that these things were true?

I would like your statements on this prior to moving forward - if you are unaware of the importance Ellen placed on this date & why…
…It would be better for me to quote where she said these things.
…And why it was so important for her to say these things.

I did see the things you posted about the calender before.

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Going by the Bible this Sabbath that Jesus spent in the tomb was a high Sabbath (one where the ceremonial sabbath actually fell on the 7th day of the week) So therefore Jesus rested the 7th day of the week and did rise on the 1st day of the week. and also did die on the preparation (or 6th) day of the week.

I serve a God who is able to preserve His true Sabbath day. He is big enough and strong enough. I do not serve a weak God. So I don’t know how men messed up the calender, but God has preserved His day.
Even when the Julian calender went from Thursday, 4 October 1582 and was followed by the first day of the Gregorian calendar, Friday, 15 October 1582 the week days where not affected.

Because it is going to be an important issue in the last days (according to God in His Word - Rev 14) I can trust Him that the 7th day is still the 7th day.
So because Bible, and Ellen White agree, I do not have to choose between either.
I’m sorry I don’t have any explanation for the calender thing, but I am going to go by God’s Word.

 

[chero23]

I did see the things you posted about the calender before.

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Going by the Bible this Sabbath that Jesus spent in the tomb was a high Sabbath (one where the ceremonial sabbath actually fell on the 7th day of the week) So therefore Jesus rested the 7th day of the week and did rise on the 1st day of the week. and also did die on the preparation (or 6th) day of the week.

I serve a God who is able to preserve His true Sabbath day. He is big enough and strong enough. I do not serve a weak God. So I don’t know how men messed up the calender, but God has preserved His day.
Even when the Julian calender went from Thursday, 4 October 1582 and was followed by the first day of the Gregorian calendar, Friday, 15 October 1582 the week days where not affected.

Because it is going to be an important issue in the last days (according to God in His Word - Rev 14) I can trust Him that the 7th day is still the 7th day.
So because Bible, and Ellen White agree, I do not have to choose between either.
I’m sorry I don’t have any explanation for the calender thing, but I am going to go by God’s Word.

There’s 3 texts in the Old testament were god begins to show his displeasure with people and the Sabbath.
•Isaiah 1:13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of assemblies – I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.

•Jeremiah 31:31-32 Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD.
•Hosea 2:11 And I will put an end to all her mirth, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths, and all her appointed feasts.

Here we see how God is upset with the Jews for not respecting his word. but you also have to remember why he sat this up. Jews were being faithful to other gods like Baal and Moloch, and that really upset especially because they were sacrificing their kids to these gods.

This is why God set up a new and better covenant in the NT. Where baptism replaced circumcision, the lamb was replaced by Jesus himself, the Sabbath for Christians became Sunday (not by the pope changing it like EGW states, that it was the Pope with Constantine, that’s a huge lie)

 

[spina1953]

In the Book of generis God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh day. Ok. However, do we know what day that actually was compared to the present understanding of the current day we call sat.; the Sabbath? Most Christians worship on Sunday but one could call it the seventh day instead of the first day of the week, since it was man who decided what to call the days of the week in that we call each day by a name. How do we know if Adam and Eve worshiped on the day we call Sat.; the Sabbath? or at any other time in history of the Jewish people? what I am saying is that there was not prior to after the exile in Babylon any uniform calendar to know what was really the actual day the Sabbath fell on, as Jews in different part of Israel worshiped the Sabbath on different days then in other parts of Israel. Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man not man made for the Sabbath. I doubt that God is concerned about an exact day for the Sabbath but more that we Worship Him in a day of rest, no matter what day one picks. The reason Catholic’s worship on Sunday is because Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday and as a Christian following the teaching of Jesus, means for me that instead of following the old Covenant I follow the New and everlasting Covenant of Jesus the Christ in remembrance of Him as per the catholic Church that follows the practice of what the Apostles did.

 

[Pythons]

Anne88:

I did see the things you posted about the calender before.

Good, lets look at them together.

Anne88:

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Yes, we agree that Scripture states Jesus died on the day of preparation, the 6th day of the Jewish week…
…And that this specific 6th day of the week coincided with the Jewish Passover.
…We are on the same page so far.

Anne88:

Going by the Bible this Sabbath that Jesus spent in the tomb was a high Sabbath (one where the ceremonial sabbath actually fell on the 7th day of the week) So therefore Jesus rested the 7th day of the week and did rise on the 1st day of the week. and also did die on the preparation (or 6th) day of the week.

So far I think we are still on the same page.

Anne88:

I serve a God who is able to preserve His true Sabbath day. He is big enough and strong enough. I do not serve a weak God. So I don’t know how men messed up the calender, but God has preserved His day.
Even when the Julian calender went from Thursday, 4 October 1582 and was followed by the first day of the Gregorian calendar, Friday, 15 October 1582 the week days where not affected.

What I’m telling you is that Ellen White claiming God instructed her that Jesus was killed in 31 A.D. at the Passover on a Friday…
…Would be like me telling you that today is actually Sunday.
…And expecting you to accept it as fact.

Would you do this?

For 22 October 1844 to be “VALID” Jesus absolutely had to be put on the cross in 31 A.D. at the Jewish Passover on Friday…
…I’m telling you that the Passover in 31 A.D. didn’t include a Friday.
…It’s impossible.

Anne88:

Because it is going to be an important issue in the last days (according to God in His Word - Rev 14) I can trust Him that the 7th day is still the 7th day.
So because Bible, and Ellen White agree, I do not have to choose between either.
I’m sorry I don’t have any explanation for the calender thing, but I am going to go by God’s Word.

Yet the same person who told you it will be an important issue in the last days…
…Is the same person who told you that Jesus was crucified on a Friday in 31.A.D. at the Passover.
…When the Passover in 31 A.D. didn’t include a Friday or Saturday.

Either 1844 is totally wrong or the Sabbath isn’t Saturday every 7 days.

 

[Pythons]

Look at the following link.

judaismvschristianity.com/Passover_dates.htm

In the Seventh Day Adventist Yearbook for July 1883 the following statement was made.

SDA YearBook Statement
Those who disbelieve in the seventh day Sabbath bring against it numerous objections, all of which are readily answered **with the exception of one **- the Cross, This is the Great, the unanswerable objection to the Bible Sabbath.

SDA’s at the highest level have known since the late 1800’s that there wasn’t a Friday, Saturday cross in 31 A.D…
…Miller wasn’t concerned with Sabbath so it wasn’t an issue for him in calculating 22 October 1844.
…The problem is that you can’t reach that date without Jesus’ death on the cross in 31 A.D. and have Saturday be part of it.

 

[Guilou67]

The quotes you give me here do not imply infallibility. Give me a Catholic document that clearly states JESUS could not sin. I have read NOTHING in the bible that says Jesus COULD NOT SIN…only that he DID NOT…which is much more impressive. Obedience is not obedience if the possibility of DISobedience does not exist…is it?

I’m pouring over the Cathecism and just can’t find anything that says Jesus COULD NOT sin. So give me the VATICAN document…because the National Council of Catholic Bishops (now the USCCB) is NOT an infallible body.

Jesus, COULD NOT SIN…, because He is GOD becoming flesh. He is ALL light, there is NO darkness in Him. unbelievable how you a catholic I presume, would be discussing “COULD NOT AND DID NOT” sin thing. He COULD NOT SIN…PERIOD.

 

[Guilou67]

None of Matthew 28:9, 17 support Sunday (first day) worship either.
If you compare it to the other Gospels, Such as John 20:19, it mentions that it was the first day BUT that it was evening and for the Jews… the day began in evening, so technically it was now the 2nd day of the week.

And of course the women worshiped Jesus when they saw Him… wouldn’t you? even if it was a Tuesday or a Thursday? I sure would… in fact most Christians do worship Jesus every day of the week in their own homes (if they don’t, they should). It doesn’t change the fact that the 7th day is the Sabbath, or that Jesus kept the Sabbath and told His followers to keep His Father’s commands as He had kept them.

Since Creation, Sabbath was always the 7th day of the week. This was again made clear at Sinai. And again in the Gospels when Jesus kept trying to show the Jews how to properly keep the Sabbath.

Jesus clearly expected His followers to be keeping the Sabbath at the time when Jerusalem was destroyed which was 40 years after His ascension (as I pointed out in an earlier post), and seeing as that prophecy also alludes to the end of time, it can be said that He still expects His followers to be keeping the Sabbath when He returns.

Sorry to take so long to reply, I am very busy with my work.
God bless

No Anne, you got it totally wrong. About the prophecy and the end time. During Jesus’s time, ALL the gates of the cities were close during Sabbath in such a way there was no going out or coming in. In a way there were no escape. Jesus as GOD know for sure that 2000 years or so later there will be no such thing as gates in all cities around the world. So He wouldn’t be talking about His Second Coming. This is something that your pastors been putting inside your head as my nephew that is a SDA ask me the same question. I am not well versed but that question wasn’t difficult for me to answer. Because some of the things in the Bible you took literally, others you twisted.

 

[Guilou67]

I’m not sure of the purpose of your question seeing as you already pointed out that Ellen White says that the Sabbath is the deciding issue in the last days.

I’m glad that I don’t have to choose between the two.
But I’d always choose what the Bible says - and I clearly see the Sabbath taught in the Bible.
Ellen White is not my Savior, she was simply a witness, an inspired instrument that God used to bring some of His forgotten Truths back into the light, and point people back to Jesus and the Bible, the inspired Word of God.
John 12:48

So you don’t really believe that Jesus Christ is GOD, do you? Otherwise you would have remembered what He said before His Ascension : that He left the HOLY SPIRIT to guide us in all truth… and He will always be with us till the end of times. So He took back His word and did leave us for almost 2000 years. I understand now why you guys keep talking about Jesus and the “HE COULD HAVE SIN”. That the way you see Jesus. But not MY Jesus, MY CREATOR, MY SAVIOR, MY ALMIGHTY GOD.

 

[Anne88]

So you don’t really believe that Jesus Christ is GOD, do you? Otherwise you would have remembered what He said before His Ascension : that He left the HOLY SPIRIT to guide us in all truth… and He will always be with us till the end of times. So He took back His word and did leave us for almost 2000 years. I understand now why you guys keep talking about Jesus and the “HE COULD HAVE SIN”. That the way you see Jesus. But not MY Jesus, MY CREATOR, MY SAVIOR, MY ALMIGHTY GOD.

I don’t see our disagreement

Jesus, our Creator, Savior, Redeemer, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, God, the I AM, came to this world as a human, lived a perfect life to show the world that God’s law is unchangeable and keepable through the power of God the Father. He died our death so that all who would believe on Him can have eternal life - the free gift of God given to us not because of what we do, but because we believe in Jesus. Then, Jesus ascended to heaven and left us with the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth by leading us back to the words of Jesus, back to the Word of God, and gives us understanding of them.

What a wonderful God we serve!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

None of Matthew 28:9, 17 support Sunday (first day) worship either.

Hi Anne88,

And yet when the women and the disciples worshipped Jesus on the first day of the week, Jesus did not recoil in horror and tell them not to do that because it might set a bad example of “sunday worship” and that it was not what God expected from them, and that it might confuse people later about the mark of the beast.

In fact Jesus next appears to His disciples again on Sunday, not Saturday…and the other major events recorded after the resurrection, such as the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the New Church on Penteccost, occur on Sunday, not Saturday.

In fact, after the resurrection there is no worship of Jesus on the sabbath mentioned. After the resurrection, the sabbath is not mentioned, in the Bible, in any association with those who believe in Jesus Christ, the Christians.

God bless all!!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Thanks all for your patience and kind words.

Yes, I agree, it is all about Jesus worship not day worship. I wish to worship Him as He commanded and ‘keep’ the Sabbath Holy as He commanded. (as well as worship Him everyday as He deserves)

I agree that Paul was looking to convert the Jews to Christianity in those texts, but I don’t see anything in those texts or the Bible that suggests that Paul was keeping any other day holy than the Sabbath. - and what better way to keep it holy than to spend it telling others the Gospel so that they can be set free by the Truth!

As to why the Sabbath was mentioned at Creation, but not again until Moses. Adam kept the Sabbath and it was passed down from generation to generation (not hard to believe because these people where more physically perfect in body and mind than we are today). It was still kept by those who obeyed God and that was why God didn’t have to restate it. Until the Hebrews were brought out of captivity from Egypt, an idol worshiping country, where they had been slaves for many years and had lost much of their identity as God’s unique people.

This same principle applies to the New Testament. It was understood by all the apostles and early Christians that the 7th day was the Sabbath, the day God commanded to keep holy. But God still knew that some people would forget or get confused, or not know, so in Revelation 14 He gives another call to the Sabbath for these last days.

“And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.” Rev 14:6,7 (emphasis added)

Here the message is to worship God as Creator
The only way to do that is to keep His Sabbath holy - as shown by the fourth commandment:

“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exodus 20:8-11 (emphasis added)

The Sabbath was always a memorial to Creation and to the God of Creation. It is also this way to remind us that God is the only one who can re-create us in His image.

love and blessings

Hi Anne88,

Thank you for your honesty in acknowledging that the Bible is clear in the book of Acts that Paul was not going into synagogues on the sabbath to worship with other Christians, but to preach the Gospel to the Jews and work for their conversion to the Messiah.

You are the first SDA with whom I’ve discussed those verses who actually acknowledges what the Bible says, and not insist that Paul was keeping the sabbath with other Christians.

Before I talk with you about the sabbath at creation and after the fall, I do have one question for you.

Do you base your beliefs on the Bible and the Bible alone, Sola Scriptura, or on the Bible and the writings of Ellen G. White, or on the writings of Ellen G. White alone?

I ask this so that I may understand how you come to your beliefs. I have no problem with you being Sola Scriptura, or Sola Ellen G. White, or a combination of the two. But knowing where you stand will help me in my responses to your comments and questions.

I personally am not an adherent of the Sola Scriptura tradition…but am perfectly willing to approach our discussion from that tradition if that is what you adhere to. Thanks in advance for answering that!! And thank you so much for you honesty!!

Are you by any chance a relatively new convert to Adventism?

God bless all!!!