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Nicea325
Guest
Yeah…and Jesus is Lord of everything. Time to move on my friend…
- Status
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Pythons
Guest
That isn’t a very good article Anne, the fact remains that in 31 A.D. there wasn’t a Friday involved with the Passover…
…What are you doing about this?
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Pythons
Guest
Let’s test your websites scholarship out a bit.
From the Website:
Exodus 12,1
And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
God said this to Moses while the Children were still in Eqypt. If you have a Strong’s please look up the Hebrew word for “month”, it’s H2320 (Chodesh) which the only meaning is “New Moon” or by implication a month or monthly “new moon”.
Numbers 33,1-3
And Moses wrote their goings out according to their journeys by the commandment of the LORD: and these are their journeys according to their goings out. And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians.
Now, counting from the “New Moon”, Passover the 14th is ALWAYS on the 6th “day” of the week. In the above Scripture the Children of Israel left Eqypt “on the morrow” or the next day after Passover.
**Lev 23, 1-8 **
Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD’s passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
Here is the simple math,
New Moon Day (1), Day 2, Day 3, Day 4, Day 5, Day 6, Day 7, Day 8, Day 9, Day 10, Day 11, Day 12, Day 13, Day 14 (Passover), Day 15 (Sabbath Day)
Day 1 (New Moon) and Day 14 (Passover) have been identified. We know from Deut 16,1 that God brought the Children out of Egypt “by night” the day after the Passover. We know that the New Moon day is the first day of the first month of the first year because God commanded the Hebrews to keep the Passover Lamb up to the 14th day of the first month then to kill it.
Here is what the Bible says about the setting of “time”.
The high hills are a refuge for the wild goats; and the rocks for the conies. He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down. Ps 104,18
If you go back and look at the “simple math” you will see that the 15th day, by default, is the Sabbath. Counting back 7 days identifies the 8th day as also a Sabbath. Day 1 can’t be the Sabbath because it’s the first day, of the first month of the first year and there is never a time where the New Moon day is the Sabbath, it’s impossible. Counting forward from the 15th day we can identify the 22nd and 29th day as Sabbath days as well. This is the first Biblical month. The second month is laid out identical.
We know that the New Moon day is not counted as being one of or part of the 6 working days because of Eze 46, 1
Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
On the 15th Day **of the Second month **of the Exodus from Egypt the Children complained to Moses. Notice what happens. God tells Moses on the 15th Day that He will rain bread from heaven and test the Children to see if they will walk in His law or not.
On Day 15 God instructs Moses what to instruct the Children. If you read Exodus 16 you will see on the evening of the "15th day of the month" God caused quail to blow into the camp of the Children of Israel and the next morning manna started to fall. Day 15 = The Sabbath, plus 16th day (1st day of manna), 17th day (2nd day of Manna), 18th day (3rd day of Manna), 19th day (4th day of Manna), 20th day (5th day of manna), 21st day (6th day of Manna) whereas the Children are to gather twice as much manna because on the 22 day there will be no manna because that day is the Sabbath day. The math works out the same way as it did from the Exodus of Egypt with the Sabbath being on the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th day from the New Moon. That’s two months wereas the Sabbaths were on the identical days of the same Lunar Calendar.
I won’t bore you with the 3rd detailed month however from my reading it is as exact as the last two I have shown you. Is there ever three months in a row in the Gregorian Calendar where the Sabbath falls on the exact same days? Of course not, because the Gregorian is a solar Calendar and does not count or start from the New Moon.
I just demonstrated what your article said wasn’t possible.
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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Hi Anne88,
I could not find anything in Genesis either where God commanded Adam and Eve to keep the sabbath holy. If fact I could not find anything in the Bible where God commanded any human to refrain from work on the seventh day until Exodus chapter 16.
According to the Bible there is no command from God to keep the sabbath in the first covenant He made with Adam and Eve.
According to the Bible there is no command from God to keep the sabbath in the second covenant He made with Noah.
According to the Bible there is no command from God to keep the sabbath in the third covenant He made with Abraham.
According to the Bible, God first command people, the people of Israel, to keep the sabbath in the fourth covenant He made with Moses and the children of Israel.
Please share your answer to the following question with me:
What is the one word you would use to describe the characteristc of God who has no beginning and no ending?
Thank you in advance for your answer!
God bless all!!!
C
chero23
Guest
Anna if I may, I have this conversation with my gf, we are reading the bible, and were in Matthew ch. 13, and she says whenever we read about the commandments she says that it talks about the Sabbath. I tell her so your Church accepts and allows abortion, how does, then accepting abortion which is killing justify your church stance?
Killing is killing, and you can not say, well we keep the Sabbath, that makes everything ok.
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Anne88
Guest
I and many others agree completely with you. Abortion is murder and we are very sad to see it being allowed in our hospitals and that a lighter stance is taken on it (it doesn’t allow abortions if the mother/father just don’t want the child, but usually to do with health problems of mother or child). We as a church used to have a much stronger stance on abortion (it is murder and not allowed).
There are many Adventist voices raised in protest against this problem. keeping the Sabbath, in no way justifies breaking any of the other commandments.
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chero23
Guest
See and I think right there you have serious problems. One thing is not going to “overcompensate” for something else. You cannot say well we keep the Sabbath. Yes I know we accept abortion, yes I know that it is wrong but we keep the Sabbath. In a way that’s the way the churches who accept the once saved always saved doctrine are. Well, yes I know that is wrong, but I’m saved.
I heard my gf tell me, that you guys believed that a sign of the antichrist, was that a church would want to get all the Christian Churches together and be united. I told her, guess what that’s what Jesus and the apostles preached, one body one church. I asked her, and what Church is this that you think is going to be the one who unites all the churches and become the antichrist. She said your church. Ironically last night as we were reading Matthew 12:25, Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. I told her and I tell you, God intended us to be united with 1 pastor, he did not leave us to be separated and attacking each other.
I have also told her about how you guys accept and allow contraception. That once again goes against the Bible, bc when you take contraception, even if it is how the SDA says only for married couples, but in Malachi 2:14-16, it says that when one gets married, one should be open to life. When you get married you become and you should allow God to give the kids that he wants to give you. taking contraception, tells God, I love you and want to be with you, but on this issue I want to do things my way not your way.
C
chero23
Guest
Also remember Jesus came for the sick. If the SDA accepts for women to have abortions bc the baby is coming “sick”, then that right there is going against God. Because God makes each one of us, “sick, smart, with down syndrome, with autism, with a superb mind, with no hands or feet” to his image. And remember what he told us, what you do to them you do unto me.
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Anne88
Guest
It isn’t right. Abortion is ALWAYS wrong, as I believe based on my personal Bible study. I am not saying that the Adventist general conference is right for allowing this. I must thank CAF for directing me to that section on the SDA website. For I had grown up being taught (in church) and believing that it was wrong. I know, after some research that it wasn’t always teaching abortion like this, and now I am motivated to do something about it.
For the record, our GC is not the same thing as having a Pope.
As for contraception, I believe, based on the Bible that life begins at conception. Therefore contraception that works after conception are also murder. I do believe in being open to life, but also that sex is not just for procreation only (read Song of Solomon). I also believe in family planning, especially since being here in a third world country.
I am a Seventh Day Adventist, because it is the religion I’ve found that most closely follows the Bible (although I will say the mainstream was closer in the past than it is today) There is a big movement among us now to stand up and live as we first believed - that is to follow the Bible and do what it says (by the grace of God), not what culture or customs dictate (example, feminism, pro-choice, women’s ordination are all from cultural pressures and have caused some in the church to compromise). This is what I am a part of. I’ve studied the history of my church, I see God’s leading in its origins. It is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy, and of course Satan will try at all times to lead God’s people (no matter which ‘religion’ they are) to forsake God through persecution or compromise.
This problem with compromise I am sure even the Catholic church has problems with - for example some using contraception instead of NFP, women priests, homosexual priests etc.
God’s church, His people, especially at the end times, are not necessarily a “religion” it is those who love God and obey His commandments, and have the faith of Jesus. Meaning that I do not believe I will be saved by being a Seventh Day Adventist, but by faith in the transforming grace of God given to me when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior.
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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Hi Anne88,
Saturday is the sabbath of the Jews. There is not one reference to the sabbath in the OT that is not prefaced with God addressing the people of Israel.
In fact, the sabbath does not appear in the creation story in Genesis. The seventh day does.
The sabbath was a shadow of the rest we enter into now through Jesus Christ…Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
That is why Paul can say, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in Colossians 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. 17 These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Our eternal rest with God begins now in Jesus Christ, with belief, trust, faith, and obedience to Jesus Christ.
Please share your answer to the following question with me:
What is the one word you would use to describe the characteristc of God who has no beginning and no ending?
Thank you in advance for your answer!
God bless all!!!
C
chero23
Guest
Ok, so you know that the teachings of the SDA is wrong, remember that in James 4:17, if you know what is right and you don’t do it your committing a sin. Why do I say this. Because your church accepts abortion, which Is wrong not only for the baby but the women does get some horrible effects from it. Second, you know they accept it, and that your church hospitals do a lot of abortions, if you give your money to your church, which I know you guys have to give the tithe, your supporting their actions. The Bible condemns you supporting a killing, with you giving your tithe, that money is used towards SDA hospitals, therefore that makes you whether you want to or not an accomplice.
With contraception, Im sorry to tell you this but even my gf who is SDA, she says that contraception is wring, this is by just reading the OT. Why is contraception wrong, several points. 1) Remember that in the OT God wanted us to multiply, (2) if land or a women was sterile they were cursed (remember when you take contraception, you become sterile), 3) your not doing God’s will but your own. 4) Contraception has been linked to killing women due to pulmonary embolism, and blood clots. Remember when Jesus is in his passion, and he consoles the Women of Jerusalem, what does he tell them, in Luke 23:39,For behold, the days are coming when they will say, `Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never gave suck!’. So Jesus was basically telling them, were a women will never give birth and will try to avoid to get pregnant and this will be normal. That’s in reference to contraception.
You speak of how lose your church is especially the beginning of your church, have you read the Early Church Fathers? They all speak of how the apostles taught them about the Eucharist, The Virgin Mary, Sunday Worship. I mean who you rather believe, somebody who got information from the apostles, like St. Polycarp, St. Clement who was the 4th Pope, or somebody who called herself a prophet and came 1800 years later?
Your right people in the CC, want the Church to open to contraception, women priest, gay marriages and abortion. But remember let’s stay with morality. Which is abortion, contraception, and abortion. Do you know why God turned his back on the Jews? Because they were offering their kids as sacrifice to the god Baal (which is the devil) So God hated babies being killed. On homosexuality the Church can not accept homosexuality because don’t you remember Sodom and Gomorrah. On the issue of women priests, all the priests in the OT, were men, remember they had to be descendants of Aaron. So only men. In the NT, Jesus selects 12 men no women, so people who want women priests just want to do what societies does not what God wants.
I agree with you, not because I yell, Im Catholic Im Catholic does it mean God will tell me oh, good come right in. No, I need to earn it. How do I this with good works, with charity, love, and fear of God.
C
chero23
Guest
I forgot to post this on my last post, but you mentioned the Song of Solomon, as a source for contraception. You probably refer to the verse that speaks about a closed garden. What you don’t understand is that verse speaks and most of the Book actually about a woman. Just 1 not million of women. Ok, so it speaks of one women, who is she. The Blessed Virgin Mary, why do I say this because, she’s the woman who God promised would step on the serpent.
Like I said you cannot argue well Song of Solomon allows contraception, because if that’s the case, it does speak of only 1 woman. How many woman have lived on Earth, in its History. Billions upon billions, so your saying every woman can say, I can take contraception, because of the Song of Solomon. When your profound you can see, this Book is speaking of God, his Church and the Virgin Mary.
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Anne88
Guest
I don’t think you understood much of what I wrote in my post. Sorry, I mustn’t have been very clear.
I wasn’t using Song of Solomon as a reference for contraception, but for a reference for sex being for more than just reproduction
Contraception is anything or method that prevents conception - therefore, NFP is also contraception, just the most natural form of contraception. And yep there are many forms of contraception that are very harmful to women - you don’t seem to understand that I actually agree with you, just as I agree with you that abortion is always murder.
I know and agree that women’s ordination is non-scriptural and that practicing a homosexual lifestyle is a sin.
You don’t have to earn heaven or salvation, you could never earn it. It’s a free gift from God that is given when you accept Jesus and let His transforming grace enter your life.
The Bible does not teach that Mary was a perpetual virgin, nor that she herself had a virgin birth. In fact I was reading a Catholic book the other day that brought out that it wasn’t until way past the apostles that this teaching was introduced.
I have no problems with any of the teachings of the SDA church - as far as abortion goes, EGW was against it, therefore I see that as our church being against it - even though some have compromised. ex: some hospitals give abortions, and that some people have abortions. (Which is just like the Catholic church does not recognize women priests, but there are still some Catholic women priests out there)
I don’t follow EGW, I follow the Bible, which is why I can accept the teachings of Ellen White, because she points us to the Bible and does not contradict the Bible.
I don’t know why so many Catholics today are trying to find support for their traditions in the Bible (which they can’t do) when they then turn around and say that tradition is as important if not more important that the Scriptures. If you really believe that, then you don’t need to back your beliefs up by the Bible.
And this is why I accept that we can’t come to an agreement, because I see Scripture, the Word of God, both the OT and NT, as something that I can hold no belief that is contrary to it. That I can not change one word of it, (the Bible says that the person who does this is cursed) - and yet this is not your belief, and I can accept that. We’re starting to go round in circles in this thread.
I’m not here to change your beliefs, I was merely answering questions. I’m sorry that I can’t answer satisfactory enough for you - and your responses do not satisfy me, but you have to expect that because we are different religions. I don’t have the desire to ratify my religion with yours or to find common ground (of which there is very little).
I don’t think badly of Catholics. I have enjoyed discussing this topic with you all. I have learnt some things about the Catholic religion that I didn’t know before. I have been challenged to know why I believe what I believe, and thanks to you guys, I do now, more than I did a week or so ago.
To Patrick Murebil, I’m not sure why you want me to find one poor inadequate English word to describe our Almighty, Eternal, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Just, Merciful, Loving, True, Faithful, Wonderful God? I honestly don’t think I have enough information about the reason of your question to answer it.
God said He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. His law is also unchangeable, it is the foundation of His kingdom. Who am I to go against His law? I will continue to keep the 7th day holy as He made it at Creation, and as He reminded everyone to do so in His Law.
Happy Sabbath (It’s the 7th day here where I am)
God bless you all, it’s been fun.
A
amyrebeccap
Guest
Chero23, I would strongly advise you not to marry your girlfriend if she remains SDA. I can’t see that being a happy marriage or a wholesome one in which to raise Catholic children. In fact, I can’t imagine an at-all sincere SDA would agree to permit her children to be raised in the Catholic faith.
My parents were both raised SDA and are divorced. Part of the reason they divorced is that after she had kids, my mom became a super-devout SDA, whereas my dad was drifting away from the church (and is now not especially religious, though I think he occasionally attends mainline protestant services with my stepmom). I myself became Catholic because I felt a strong desire for God in my life once I had kids.
Moral of the story, she may seem like a lukewarm Adventist now, but having kids often spurs women to care more about religion – which is generally a good thing, but which would not auger well for a Catholic/SDA marriage’s future happiness.
As a Catholic, you understand the sacramental nature of marriage in a way that she doesn’t and can’t. I’m sure your SDA girlfriend is a lovely person, but unless she undergoes a genuine, sincere, and informed conversion, you’d be better off ending things. Even if you’re in love. Especially if you’re in love.
As an addendum, I never planned to totally cut my mom off from my kids if we continued debating religion, although I see that what I wrote can be read that way. It’s more that neither of us is going to change our minds, and the debates make our time together really unpleasant, so we’ve both backed off.
I have told her she is under no circumstances allowed to teach Adventist doctrines to my kids. That said, they’re going to realize that much of my family has (very) different religious beliefs eventually, so I’ll just address what we believe vs. what they believe as well as I can when the time comes and hope that a good Catholic formation trumps SDA conspiracy theories.
Because that’s seriously what Adventism is about, IMHO. It makes Christianity into one big conspiracy theory.
My parents were both raised SDA and are divorced. Part of the reason they divorced is that after she had kids, my mom became a super-devout SDA, whereas my dad was drifting away from the church (and is now not especially religious, though I think he occasionally attends mainline protestant services with my stepmom). I myself became Catholic because I felt a strong desire for God in my life once I had kids.
Moral of the story, she may seem like a lukewarm Adventist now, but having kids often spurs women to care more about religion – which is generally a good thing, but which would not auger well for a Catholic/SDA marriage’s future happiness.
As a Catholic, you understand the sacramental nature of marriage in a way that she doesn’t and can’t. I’m sure your SDA girlfriend is a lovely person, but unless she undergoes a genuine, sincere, and informed conversion, you’d be better off ending things. Even if you’re in love. Especially if you’re in love.
As an addendum, I never planned to totally cut my mom off from my kids if we continued debating religion, although I see that what I wrote can be read that way. It’s more that neither of us is going to change our minds, and the debates make our time together really unpleasant, so we’ve both backed off.
I have told her she is under no circumstances allowed to teach Adventist doctrines to my kids. That said, they’re going to realize that much of my family has (very) different religious beliefs eventually, so I’ll just address what we believe vs. what they believe as well as I can when the time comes and hope that a good Catholic formation trumps SDA conspiracy theories.
Because that’s seriously what Adventism is about, IMHO. It makes Christianity into one big conspiracy theory.
P
Pythons
Guest
It’s difficult to imagine how one could insist their Church is “according to the Bible”…
…When their Church teaches that Christ could have easily sinned & been annihilated by ‘God’.
…And that the same Church states THAT article of faith “IS VITAL”.
When one grasps THAT the other SDA oddities such as Saturday Sabbaths, soul sleeping, etc…
…Are actually really quite harmless.
But then again when a woman Prophet can boast the following & her flock still believe…
…literally anything is possible LOL!
Ellen G. White, The Faith I Live By, page 88
The law is the gospel embodied, and the gospel is the law unfolded. The law is the root, the gospel is the fragrant blossom and fruit which it bears.
“The Law” = creature Christ / soul sleeping / The Father & Lucifer are made out of flesh & have rectums.
The Holy Spirit, well, they are not quite sure what this is.
adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH18900527-V67-21__B.pdf#search=%22 Page 2
Ellen White
There must be a living testimony borne, pointing out the necessity of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit **OF God **upon every church-member, that light may shine forth to others that are in darkness.
Signs of the Times, 1912, Vol 39 # 32
3829 — Is The Holy Spirit A Personality?
Question:
Can’t we say that the Holy Spirit is a
personality, as long as the personal pronoun
is attributed to it? T. A. Z.
** Answer:**
The use of the personal pronoun is not of itself proof that the Holy Spirit is a personality, and yet the work of the Spirit is the work of a personality. By the Spirit both the Father and the Son come personally to every soul that receives the Spirit. In that wonderful sense which no human being can comprehend, the Spirit comes to each soul as a personality. And yet it does not have what we would call human personality of being in one place only at one time, that is, such personality as has our Lord Himself — in one place as He is in no other place. The Holy Spirit may be in any number of places at one and the same time, bringing the special presence of God in each of those places. In the office of the “Signs of the Times” there are fourteen different telephones all connecting with the manager. The manager may connect all these with him at one and the same time. He could issue a general order so that the foreman of each department could hear his voice at the same time. In a way he is personally present in every department. Every department hears his voice. The marvelous invention of the telephone makes him present in fifteen different places at the same time. So it is that God’s Spirit makes the Father and the Son present in as many different places as God may direct, at one and the same time. We know somewhat of the working. We understand how it is to some extent of the Lord’s ways and methods. We see the effects, but we know almost nothing of the nature and the power that Infinity uses to communicate with man. Let us be willing to leave it there. In some instances the Spirit is represented as the great life of God. In some it is spoken of as a power that is poured out and shed forth. To the individual it comes as the representative of the personal God. Therefore it may be spoken of as a personality, and looking at it from another view-point, as not a personality
Revew and Herald, Sept 6, 1892
Is God a Spirit?
** Question:**
If God is a spirit (John 4:24) and at the same time a person (Dan 7:9) would not the same reasoning prove that the Holy Spirit is a PERSON as referred to in John 4: 26?
Answer:
**NO **- For God is elsewhere described and represented as a Person; but the Holy Spirit is not. The fact that the Holy Spirit is personified John 14 and thus spoken of as acting in a personal and individual manner does NOT prove it to be a person any more than the fact that love is spoken of in 1 Cor 13 as performing certain acts and exercising certain emotions, prove that charity or love is a person
…When their Church teaches that Christ could have easily sinned & been annihilated by ‘God’.
…And that the same Church states THAT article of faith “IS VITAL”.
When one grasps THAT the other SDA oddities such as Saturday Sabbaths, soul sleeping, etc…
…Are actually really quite harmless.
But then again when a woman Prophet can boast the following & her flock still believe…
…literally anything is possible LOL!
Ellen G. White, The Faith I Live By, page 88
The law is the gospel embodied, and the gospel is the law unfolded. The law is the root, the gospel is the fragrant blossom and fruit which it bears.
“The Law” = creature Christ / soul sleeping / The Father & Lucifer are made out of flesh & have rectums.
The Holy Spirit, well, they are not quite sure what this is.
adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH18900527-V67-21__B.pdf#search=%22 Page 2
Ellen White
There must be a living testimony borne, pointing out the necessity of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit **OF God **upon every church-member, that light may shine forth to others that are in darkness.
Signs of the Times, 1912, Vol 39 # 32
3829 — Is The Holy Spirit A Personality?
Question:
Can’t we say that the Holy Spirit is a
personality, as long as the personal pronoun
is attributed to it? T. A. Z.
** Answer:**
The use of the personal pronoun is not of itself proof that the Holy Spirit is a personality, and yet the work of the Spirit is the work of a personality. By the Spirit both the Father and the Son come personally to every soul that receives the Spirit. In that wonderful sense which no human being can comprehend, the Spirit comes to each soul as a personality. And yet it does not have what we would call human personality of being in one place only at one time, that is, such personality as has our Lord Himself — in one place as He is in no other place. The Holy Spirit may be in any number of places at one and the same time, bringing the special presence of God in each of those places. In the office of the “Signs of the Times” there are fourteen different telephones all connecting with the manager. The manager may connect all these with him at one and the same time. He could issue a general order so that the foreman of each department could hear his voice at the same time. In a way he is personally present in every department. Every department hears his voice. The marvelous invention of the telephone makes him present in fifteen different places at the same time. So it is that God’s Spirit makes the Father and the Son present in as many different places as God may direct, at one and the same time. We know somewhat of the working. We understand how it is to some extent of the Lord’s ways and methods. We see the effects, but we know almost nothing of the nature and the power that Infinity uses to communicate with man. Let us be willing to leave it there. In some instances the Spirit is represented as the great life of God. In some it is spoken of as a power that is poured out and shed forth. To the individual it comes as the representative of the personal God. Therefore it may be spoken of as a personality, and looking at it from another view-point, as not a personality
Revew and Herald, Sept 6, 1892
Is God a Spirit?
** Question:**
If God is a spirit (John 4:24) and at the same time a person (Dan 7:9) would not the same reasoning prove that the Holy Spirit is a PERSON as referred to in John 4: 26?
Answer:
**NO **- For God is elsewhere described and represented as a Person; but the Holy Spirit is not. The fact that the Holy Spirit is personified John 14 and thus spoken of as acting in a personal and individual manner does NOT prove it to be a person any more than the fact that love is spoken of in 1 Cor 13 as performing certain acts and exercising certain emotions, prove that charity or love is a person
B
Bernard_Lyons
Guest
There is no where I believe in the New Testament that exchanges (in terms of actual doctrine,)the the Jewish Sabbath with an alternative day of the week.
The practice of others,( including Protestants ) of adopting the “Sunday” as the “Lords day”,has only the joining together , of a very slender superficial ,association of words ( especially the "breaking of bread " which was an everyday practice ,no doubt.) as its basis .
" This is the day that The Lord has made"
When the "Son of righteousness "assended up on high :it could be said (especially now )
“day unto day utterth speech” “night unto night showeth knowledge”
The first to observe this new day: was one on the Demascus road,hitherto blind to it,but when one "above the brightness of the sun " had in revelation shined upon him,he was forever one of those “children of light” and of the day.
"One day is with The Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day "
When does this day end ?
For the saved,never .
But When the " son of righteousness " returns:
For those who are numbered among’st the children of darkness and have never experienced this most glorious day,when this happens :
it will be forever night.
The practice of others,( including Protestants ) of adopting the “Sunday” as the “Lords day”,has only the joining together , of a very slender superficial ,association of words ( especially the "breaking of bread " which was an everyday practice ,no doubt.) as its basis .
" This is the day that The Lord has made"
When the "Son of righteousness "assended up on high :it could be said (especially now )
“day unto day utterth speech” “night unto night showeth knowledge”
The first to observe this new day: was one on the Demascus road,hitherto blind to it,but when one "above the brightness of the sun " had in revelation shined upon him,he was forever one of those “children of light” and of the day.
"One day is with The Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day "
When does this day end ?
For the saved,never .
But When the " son of righteousness " returns:
For those who are numbered among’st the children of darkness and have never experienced this most glorious day,when this happens :
it will be forever night.
P
Pythons
Guest
1st Cor 16,1
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem
The ONE day when “ALL” the Christians in Galatia & Corinth would see Paul…
…Was obviously the day in which Christians gathered together.
…That day was the first day of the week.
Hebrews 10,25
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching
Christians were not welcome to conduct “Christian worship” in Jewish Synagogues…
…And as Scripture clearly states they assembled THEMSELVES together on the 1st day of the week.
…No amount of Scripture twisting can change that.
You mean this:
Pliny, 111 A.D.
it was their habit **on a fixed day **to assemble before daylight and recite by turns a form of words to Christ as a god; and that they bound themselves with an oath, not for any crime, but not to commit theft or robbery, or adultery, not to break their word, and not to deny a deposit when demanded. After this was done, their custom was to depart, and meet again to take food but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition
Pliny wasn’t a Jew or a Christian…
…He was Trajan’s Proconsul.
…And the comment about “ordinary food” was because the Romans thought the Christians were eating human flesh.
…I.E. The Body and Blood of The Lord.
Ya know, that sounds VERY similar to:
Acts 20,7
And upon the first day of the week, WHEN the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him. When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
Sunday is a Christian “thing” started by the earliest Christians…
…Generally EVERY group that speaks against it just so happens to teach.
…creature Christ and soul sleeping - what does that tell you?
V
vsedriver
Guest
C
chero23
Guest
Anna, it seems to me you are doing the typical Protestant answers, which are lies.I don’t think you understood much of what I wrote in my post. Sorry, I mustn’t have been very clear.
I wasn’t using Song of Solomon as a reference for contraception, but for a reference for sex being for more than just reproduction
Contraception is anything or method that prevents conception - therefore, NFP is also contraception, just the most natural form of contraception. And yep there are many forms of contraception that are very harmful to women - you don’t seem to understand that I actually agree with you, just as I agree with you that abortion is always murder.
I know and agree that women’s ordination is non-scriptural and that practicing a homosexual lifestyle is a sin.
You don’t have to earn heaven or salvation, you could never earn it. It’s a free gift from God that is given when you accept Jesus and let His transforming grace enter your life.
The Bible does not teach that Mary was a perpetual virgin, nor that she herself had a virgin birth. In fact I was reading a Catholic book the other day that brought out that it wasn’t until way past the apostles that this teaching was introduced.
I have no problems with any of the teachings of the SDA church - as far as abortion goes, EGW was against it, therefore I see that as our church being against it - even though some have compromised. ex: some hospitals give abortions, and that some people have abortions. (Which is just like the Catholic church does not recognize women priests, but there are still some Catholic women priests out there)
I don’t follow EGW, I follow the Bible, which is why I can accept the teachings of Ellen White, because she points us to the Bible and does not contradict the Bible.
I don’t know why so many Catholics today are trying to find support for their traditions in the Bible (which they can’t do) when they then turn around and say that tradition is as important if not more important that the Scriptures. If you really believe that, then you don’t need to back your beliefs up by the Bible.
And this is why I accept that we can’t come to an agreement, because I see Scripture, the Word of God, both the OT and NT, as something that I can hold no belief that is contrary to it. That I can not change one word of it, (the Bible says that the person who does this is cursed) - and yet this is not your belief, and I can accept that. We’re starting to go round in circles in this thread.
I’m not here to change your beliefs, I was merely answering questions. I’m sorry that I can’t answer satisfactory enough for you - and your responses do not satisfy me, but you have to expect that because we are different religions. I don’t have the desire to ratify my religion with yours or to find common ground (of which there is very little).
I don’t think badly of Catholics. I have enjoyed discussing this topic with you all. I have learnt some things about the Catholic religion that I didn’t know before. I have been challenged to know why I believe what I believe, and thanks to you guys, I do now, more than I did a week or so ago.
To Patrick Murebil, I’m not sure why you want me to find one poor inadequate English word to describe our Almighty, Eternal, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Just, Merciful, Loving, True, Faithful, Wonderful God? I honestly don’t think I have enough information about the reason of your question to answer it.
God said He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. His law is also unchangeable, it is the foundation of His kingdom. Who am I to go against His law? I will continue to keep the 7th day holy as He made it at Creation, and as He reminded everyone to do so in His Law.
Happy Sabbath (It’s the 7th day here where I am)
God bless you all, it’s been fun.
First you mentioned that the perpetual virginity is not Biblical, and that the apostles really didn’t teach about it. If you want to know the truth read the early church fathers, they speak about her perpetual virginity. That was spoken about since around the year 50-60. Plus, theirs enough evidence in the entire Bible that teach that Mary did not have any kids and that she was a virgin all her life.
You mentioned that Catholics try to show their traditions by the bible but can’t. When I saw that I was like, whoa. So how can you say that about the SDA, if you guys also believe in only the bible yet, accept abortion. The Catholic Church, can show by the Bible why the Eucharist is truly the body and blood of Christ. Why confessing to a priest is biblical. Why one church, one baptism, the pope. The Catholic Church can show everything that it teaches from the Bible. And guess what, we don’t show 1 verse, and say see, see. We are profound.
You also mentioned that you don’t dislike Catholics, but guess what, I know SDA people bc of my gf, and people from the SDA hate catholics. So don’t try to state that that’s not the case. There’s enough evidence to show that SDA ppl hate Catholics. And do everything they can to attack our beliefs.
C
chero23
Guest
I know when my girlfriend and I were talking early in our relationship I told her we need to get united because it can cause trouble. She said, you want us to be united and for me to forget about my beliefs. I told her no, we need to be united so no one can come and destroy us. You used to be SDA, she said that a teaching of the SDA church, was that a sign of the antichrist, was that a church, would attempt to unite all Christian churches and become 1, then passing a worldwide blue law.
I told her so unity is bad, she says yes, because I will not leave my beliefs. I told her Hun, in the Bible Jesus and the apostles preach about unity. She would reply, you haven’t read it right. Time passed, and earlier this week we came upon Matthew 12:25, and to paraphrase, Jesus says, a country and family divided destroys itself. I told her, Hun, Jesus who is God wants us to be united to overcome rebellion, and he is talking about the present, not for the next life.
It shocked her, that that verse was there.
But, yes, I have told her, you need to be smart, you need to see that both churches will not be able to live under one roof.
- Status