Seventh Day Adventists say Catholics changed...

[JRKH]

Richard,

I finished reading, ‘Fulfillment of All Desire’, and you should read it. It is about God being the only one who can fulfill all our desires.

Kathleen

 

[Richard_Kastner]

:
Originally Posted by Richard Kastner
These vs. say nothing about a covenant.
Ex.31
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

However these do.

The commandment you speak of above - the Covenant. Was this not the covenant carved in letters on stone, which Moses came down with from the Mt Sinai?
if it is, then what is Paul refering to here?
2 Cor 3:6-11
6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the dispensation of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such splendor that the Israelites could not look at Moses’ face because of its brightness, fading as this was, 8 will not the dispensation of the Spirit be attended with greater splendor? 9 For if there was splendor in the dispensation of condemnation, the dispensation of righteousness must far exceed it in splendor. 10 Indeed, in this case, what once had splendor has come to have no splendor at all, because of the splendor that surpasses it. 11 For if what faded away came with splendor, what is permanent must have much more splendor.

James you bring up a very good topic here one which should be explored in some depth.
I think to start we should look at the first five vs. of 2 Cor.3
CHAPTER 3
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Paul here tells us exactly what he is talking about. He asks the retorical question do we need letters of commendation? You of me and me of you in order that others will know that we are Christians? V. three tells us what he is talking about for the rest of the chapter. **“Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.” **We are not Christians because we keep a set of rules (even the ten commandments). We are Christians because we have a personal relationship with Jesus and we allow His Spirit to write His law on our hearts. Jer.31:33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This from my commentary:
Every church and every creed has its “letter” as well as its “spirit.” The gospel of Jesus Christ has its “letter” and its “spirit.” Without the quickening power of the Holy Spirit, the gospel in any church inevitably becomes a dead letter. Thousands of professed Christians are satisfied with the “letter” and remain wholly without spiritual life. What God requires is not simply right action, but right action as the product and evidence of a right relationship with God and a right state of moral and spiritual being. To reduce Christian life and worship to compliance with a system of rules, rather than to make it a matter of reliance upon the living God, is to depend upon the service and ministry of the “letter.” The formal acts and ceremonies of religion, whether Jewish or Christian, are but a means to an end. If treated as ends in themselves, they immediately become a hindrance to true religious experience.

So to answer your question.

What the vs. from Ex.31 are talking about were indeed the ten commandments. To be specific about the Sabbath commandment. What Paul is talking about in 2Cor.3 is basically how we percieve those very same commandments. IOW Do we view them as a set of rules to follow, that if we keep these laws good enough we will attain eternal life (letter)? Or do we allow the Spirit to write those laws on our heart? This being made possible through a personal relationship with Jesus and an acceptance of what He did for us on Calvary. (spirit)

Indeed we also have St Luke’s account, echoed by Paul of the Last supper wherein Christ institutes a “New Covenant”.
Luke 22:20
And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

1 Cor 11:25
In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

Christ then gives a New, Commandment.
John 13:34-35
“34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

The new covenant that Jesus talks about here is the same covenant that Paul is talking about. The covenant of the Spirit. This covenant inevitably leads to love. The new commandment that Jesus talks about isn’t really new at all.
Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

The Jews had so gotten themselves into this “letter of the law” mindset that they had forgotten the two greatest commandments. Jesus reminds them.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I am a child of God and subject of the King of Heaven and Earth who is Jesus Christ. In this I am, as a Gentile brothers with the children of Isreal who kept the law of the Old covenant just as we keep the Law of Love which is the new convenant.

So, you think God’s “Law of Love” is different than the ten commandments?

I wholeheartedly agree that it is about obedience. Obedience to God and to the authoriy that God has placed over us during our sojourn on earth.
That is why Christ Himself could justify the jews obeying the pharasees:
“all that they tell you, do and observe” because “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat”. (Matthew 23:2-3)
He told the faithful to obey the pharasees even though He was not happy with them or their holiness. Those who, in honesty and humility, obey those in lawful authority over them incur no sin. I obey that authority, in truth and humility, that Christ has placed over me. So, as you say it is not about “the day” it is about obedience to God.

Matt 23
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Jesus admonishes us to to do “whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do”
because they sit on Moses seat. IOW to keep the commandments. Including the Sabbath,
but He also tells them “do not ye after their works” because they are hypicrites.

consider
Mark7
6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

Jesus tells us we need to keep the commandments and those of coarse include the Sabbath commandment. However He does warn us 7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Like the transferance of the sanctity of the Sabbath to the Sunday.

Purely speculative and off point. Christ’s Love extended to one who did not keep the sabbath. One who said, "“Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof…”

I only mention the centurian because you brought him up.

These people coming from east and west, have not kept the sabbath even though they may have heard of it, surely the centurian had heard of the sabbath yet, as a Roman, he did not keep it.

HUH???
So according to Isaiah, someone, will proclaim this, but yousay it isn’t you who are proclaiming it.

I just reread this post and it is a little confusing. Let me claify. 1Thess.4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Of the many millions of people that have died before the return of Jesus there will be many Sunday keepers going to heaven with Jesus who truely believe that in Sunday they were keeping the Sabbath. However in the time just before Jesus comes The Sabbath message will be proclaimed with much ferver so that there will be no doubt as to which is the commandment of God and which is the commandment of men and of the people that are alive at Christ’s return that will be taken up to heaven with Him there will be no Sunday keepers. They have made thier choice to be obedient to man rather than God. And God will honor that choice. They will be destroyed by the brightness of His comming.

The greates Law of the New convenant as pointed out above is not that which is inscribed on stone but that which is written on the heart.

The “Law of the New convenant” Is the same law as the old covenant inscribed on our hearts.
Jer.31
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The root and source of ALL salvic works is LOVE. I refer you again to Mt 22:36-40

Peace
James

You do realise that Jesus was quoting the old testament when He gave these laws don’t you?

Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I did not ask for you to judge. I asked your opinion.
In this post you say you will not judge and yet in the post just before this one you say this.
On “These people coming from east and west” I certainly am not saying that there will be no Sunday keepers in heaven. However, I believe that we will be judged by the light we have recieved and as Isaiah 66 points out. In the time just before Jesus return. Their will be a people that will proclaim more fervently the Sabbath message and it is quite clear that their will be no Sunday keepers in heaven.
So which is it. Will we “be judged by the light we received…”, or will there be, “No Sunday keepers in Heaven”, even if they kept Sunday in all faith and holiness?

Your words my friend.

I believe I clarified this in my last post.

Not at all. In fact I take God at His word even to the point of submitting my doubts to His uathoritative Church which He founded, gave authority and which Paul refers to as the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth.

All except maybe this.
Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

These commandments were given by Jesus to Moses on mount Sinai.
Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

What I do not “take at it’s word” is your interpretation of the bible which is flawed.

What specifically?

When I obey the CC, I obey God. Simple as that.
Because God placed her in authority over us. Simple as that.
Because God used her to assemble the written word into the bible you hold. Simple as that.

The only authority that Jesus gave His church was to teach and preach “all things I have commanded you”. Matt.28:19,20 Thereby giving them the keys to the Kingdom (His Word). And bindig them or loosing to the heavenly kingdom by that word.

Now in closing. I have to say that, as intersting as this has been I am afraid I must withdraw from the discussion. I care full time for my wife who has Alzheimer’s disease and I cannot devote the kind of time necessary to properly research and respond to everything you post.
I appreciate the time you have given to me.

May God bless you on your journey.

Peace
James

I will bring you and your wife up before my church for prayer this Sabbath. I am sorry for your wifes affliction I will pray for her. I don’t think that we’ve seen the last of one another. Peace be with you James.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I’m back briefly - Had to ask…
You say above that the only authority we need is the infallible word of God.
Could you tell me what you believe that infallible word is??

I can tell you what the Bible says it is. It is Jesus. “In the beginning was the Word…” So the infallible word of God existed long before any “written words” were.

God then inspired men to write that which he wished to convey.
Now today we have the Bible. The collection of that Written word of divine inspiration.
But let me ask you this.
Which would be more important to have, the written word without the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit, without the written Word?

Obviously the answer must be the Spirit. Therefore, assuming you are refering to the bible as the “infallible word of God” then your statement is false, for without the proper spirit, the bible can be twisted to mean almost anything.

Peace
James

Wow, Cool, You carry on a dialogue (argument) with me and I’m not even there (here)
I don’t know. Am I supposed to take this straw man argument seriously? I mean seriously.

 

[Nicea325]

Wow, Cool, You carry on a dialogue (argument) with me and I’m not even there (here)
I don’t know. Am I supposed to take this straw man argument seriously? I mean seriously.

Straw man argument? Nice attitude there Richard.

 

[me_again]

The SDA sabbath day issue is predicated on a false prophecy that Jesus would return to the earth in 1844. When Jesus didn’t return in 1844, it caused the SDA founder, prophetess and leader (Ellen Gould White) to create a false doctrine called the 1844 Sanctuary Cleansing to justify the false date setting in 1844. You can read more about it here. The entire SDA church is founded upon this false doctrine.

Note**:** It’s important to show long-suffering mercy and love on the SDA followers who have fallen prey to these doctrines of devils.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

The SDA sabbath day issue is predicated on a false prophecy that Jesus would return to the earth in 1844. When Jesus didn’t return in 1844, it caused the SDA founder, prophetess and leader (Ellen Gould White) to create a false doctrine called the 1844 Sanctuary Cleansing to justify the false date setting in 1844. You can read more about it here. The entire SDA church is founded upon this false doctrine.

Note**:** It’s important to show long-suffering mercy and love on the SDA followers who have fallen prey to these doctrines of devils.

The Sabbath day issue is predicated on this

Exodus 20:8-11 (King James Version)
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Altho your appraisal of the 1844 prophecy, (which is in the bible Dan.8:14), is nonsense,
Thank you for the wish of mercy and long suffering.

 

[benidict]

The Sabbath day issue is predicated on this

Exodus 20:8-11 (King James Version)
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Altho your appraisal of the 1844 prophecy, (which is in the bible Dan.8:14), is nonsense,
Thank you for the wish of mercy and long suffering.

daniel 8:14 and he said unto him: unto evening and morning two thousand three hundred days: and the sanctuary shall be cleansed. yep it sure was. with the death of antiochus. again historically verifiable. again, it shows what can happen, when someone reads the bible with no guidance from a governing body, that was instituted by Christ, and given the Holy Spirit to guide the flock. it is the SDA interpretation of daniel and revelation, which is nonsense.

 

[me_again]

Also your appraisal of the 1844 prophecy, (which is in the bible Dan.8:14), is nonsense,

Richard, are you saying that you believe in Ellen G. White’s proclamation that the Lord Jesus Christ did not enter the “holy of holies” in heaven until 1844? :dts:

And that Jesus didn’t starting “judging the living and the dead” until 1844? :dts:

And that Jesus has been judging the living and the dead from 1844 until now, in preparation for His Second coming? :dts:

The Sabbath day issue is predicated on this

Exodus 20:8-11 (King James Version)
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Richard, you are correct**:** The Lord did give the Jews the Saturday sabbath rest as a shadow (or foretaste) of the spiritual rest that was yet to come in the resurrection of Jesus, per Colossians 2:16-17.

Thank you for the wish of mercy and long suffering.

What good is my knowledge if I don’t show kindness to someone who is in doctrinal error? shaw:

The Apostle Paul said it this way: And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
You can read it in context here.

Thank goodness that we don’t have to be doctrinally error free to enter the kingdom of heaven!!! :getholy:

 

[Richard_Kastner]

daniel 8:14 and he said unto him: unto evening and morning two thousand three hundred days: and the sanctuary shall be cleansed. yep it sure was. with the death of antiochus. again historically verifiable. again, it shows what can happen, when someone reads the bible with no guidance from a governing body, that was instituted by Christ, and given the Holy Spirit to guide the flock. it is the SDA interpretation of daniel and revelation, which is nonsense.

Ben, Daniel was in exile in Babylon during the reign of Nebuchandnezzar 634-562 BC. Antiochus Epiphanes lived between 215-164 BC. So between the death of Nebuchandnessar and the birth of Antiochus Epiphanes there are 347 yrs. 2300 days = appr. 6yrs. 4mos. Antiochus Epiphanes could not possibly be the one that fullfilled the cleansing of the sanctuary prophecy if you look at just these #'s alone. I have shown you how he could not possibly be the one yet you say it is “historically verifiable” that it is. Could you please cite the document that historically verifies this.

 

[benidict]

Ben, Daniel was in exile in Babylon during the reign of Nebuchandnezzar 634-562 BC. Antiochus Epiphanes lived between 215-164 BC. So between the death of Nebuchandnessar and the birth of Antiochus Epiphanes there are 347 yrs. 2300 days = appr. 6yrs. 4mos. Antiochus Epiphanes could not possibly be the one that fullfilled the cleansing of the sanctuary prophecy if you look at just these #'s alone. I have shown you how he could not possibly be the one yet you say it is “historically verifiable” that it is. Could you please cite the document that historically verifies this.

read maccabees. after antiochus died they did cleanse the temple, exactly as daniel prophecied they would. read the prophecy of daniel, then the book of macabees. it is quite clear who daniel is speaking prophetically about. have you ever had a chance to read this book? weather you believe it to be inspired or not is beside the point. there is much in there that is useful especially when it comes to the book of Daniel.peace

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard, are you saying that you believe in Ellen G. White’s proclamation that the Lord Jesus Christ did not enter the “holy of holies” in heaven until 1844? :dts:

No, what I said and what you posted was

Originally Posted by Richard Kastner
Also your appraisal of the 1844 prophecy, (which is in the bible Dan.8:14), is nonsense,

But to answer your question. No, I do not believe that Christ first entered the sanctuary in 1844. I believe He entered the holy of holies when He rose to heaven. I further believe that He entered the holy of holies as our high priest in 1844.

And that Jesus didn’t starting “judging the living and the dead” until 1844? :dts:

Yes.

And that Jesus has been judging the living and the dead from 1844 until now, in preparation for His Second coming? :dts:

Yes.

Richard, you are correct**:** The Lord did give the Jews the Saturday sabbath rest as a shadow (or foretaste) of the spiritual rest that was yet to come in the resurrection of Jesus, per Colossians 2:16-17.

Jesus gave us the Sabbath at creation.
Genesis 2:2-3 (King James Version)

2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

And it was created for mankind not just the Jews.
Mark 2:27-28 (King James Version)

27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

What good is my knowledge if I don’t show kindness to someone who is in doctrinal error? shaw:

What doctrine would that be?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

read maccabees. after antiochus died they did cleanse the temple, exactly as daniel prophecied they would. read the prophecy of daniel, then the book of macabees. it is quite clear who daniel is speaking prophetically about. have you ever had a chance to read this book? weather you believe it to be inspired or not is beside the point. there is much in there that is useful especially when it comes to the book of Daniel.peace

Ben, Did you read what I posted? Daniel was in Babylon in th sixth cen. BC.Antiochus Epiphanes was born in the third cen. BC. a difference of over three hundred years.
Daniel 8:14 (King James Version)
14And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

2300 days = about 61/2 yrs. The numbers don’t add up.
Anyway you are making the same mistake that the early Adventists made. They thought that this 2300 days refered to the earthly sanctuary. So they figured that this must mean that Jesus would return to purge the earth with fire. Well, we know that that was not the case so they studied the prophecy once again. See the sanctuary and all the feasts of it are prophetic. They point to some aspect of Gods plan of salvation in Jesus Christ but the earthly sanctuary is but a pattern of the one in heaven.

Ex.25
8And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
9According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

So they figured if this prophecy was not talking about the earthly sanctuary, it must be talking about the heavenly one. And the feast that would fit this theory is the day of atonement (judgement) Yom Kippur. The day that Christ enters the holy of holies on our behalf as our judge and high priest.

 

[Javl]

No, what I said and what you posted was

But to answer your question. No, I do not believe that Christ first entered the sanctuary in 1844. I believe He entered the holy of holies when He rose to heaven. I further believe that He entered the holy of holies as our high priest in 1844.

Yes.

Yes.

Jesus gave us the Sabbath at creation.
Genesis 2:2-3 (King James Version)

2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

And it was created for mankind not just the Jews.
Mark 2:27-28 (King James Version)

27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

What doctrine would that be?

Richard:

Doesn’t Colossians 2:13-17 mean anything to the SDA? Re: 2:16; "Therefore do not let anyone judge you for what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a new moon celebration or a Sabbath day….

If Paul says to ignore anyone that judges us ( and I’m sure he is telling us under God’s direction ) why should we listen to the SDA who is judging us and “condemning” us for keeping the Sabbath on a Sunday in order to honor Jesus? The SDA is contradicting both Christ’s nailing of the Law to the cross and Paul.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard:

Doesn’t Colossians 2:13-17 mean anything to the SDA? Re: 2:16; "Therefore do not let anyone judge you for what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a new moon celebration or a Sabbath day….

If Paul says to ignore anyone that judges us ( and I’m sure he is telling us under God’s direction ) why should we listen to the SDA who is judging us and “condemning” us for keeping the Sabbath on a Sunday in order to honor Jesus? The SDA is contradicting both Christ’s nailing of the Law to the cross and Paul.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

Col.2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

What Paul is refering to in Col.2 were the yearly festivals and sabbaths of the sanctuary which were prophetic and were a type or foreshadowing of Jesus and His sacrifice. When Jesus came, when type met antitype they were no longer needed and were nailed to the cross v.14 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

This is not refering to the Sabbath commandment which was both spoken by God and written by His own finger to signify it’s permanence.

 

[me_again]

I believe that Christ entered the holy of holies as our high priest in 1844.

Charles Taze Russell also had some difficulties when Jesus didn’t return at Taze’s appointed time. Similarly, Ellen G. White’s date-setting prophecy is a heretical misrepresentation of scriptures e.g. the scriptures that are used by Ellen White falsely mark 1844 as the year that Jesus entered the Holy of Holies as our high priest. The genesis of this false heretical prophecy was the false date-setting of William Miller e.g. Ellen White tried to make the year 1844 into something that it was not.

Thank you Richard for admitting that you believe the following heresies: * That Jesus didn’t starting “judging the living and the dead” until 1844.
.

• And that Jesus has been judging the living and the dead from 1844 until now, in preparation for His Second coming.

If you believe in SDA teachings more than other Protestant denominational teachings, then why don’t you list SeventhDay Adventism as your denomination in your profile at this forum, instead of listing it as “Protestant”? Pray tell?

Jesus gave us the Sabbath at creation.
Genesis 2:2-3 (King James Version)

2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

No, the Saturday sabbath was made exclusively for the Jews, as a sign between them and God. It was a shadow or foretaste of the rest that was yet to come with the resurrection of Jesus. Jesus is our true rest. Richard, do you believe that only those who attend church on Saturday are sealed with the Holy Spirit? Protestants believe that God’s children are sealed with His Holy Spirit only through faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus – and not upon Saturday church services.

And it was created for mankind not just the Jews.
Mark 2:27-28 (King James Version)

27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

That is a misconstruction of the original intent of what the Lord was telling the Jews e.g. it’s okay for Jews to crack wheat (to eat) on the sabbath and for Jews to lift stranded cattle from ditches and for Jesus to heal the sick on Saturday. Jesus was addressing the Jews about these issues – exclusively. He was not addressing us. Similarly, when Jesus told the Jewish people to do exactly what the priests (Pharisees and Sadducees) told them to do, He was addressing the Jews – exclusively. He was not addressing us.

Context and background settings are keys to properly interpreting these scriptures.

 

[me_again]

me again;6688409:

What good is my knowledge if I don’t show kindness to someone who is in doctrinal error

? shaw: What doctrine would that be?

It would be Ellen Gould White’s Sanctuary Cleansing Doctrine of 1844. It’s a false doctrine. :tsktsk:

 

[me_again]

Col.2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

What Paul is refering to in Col.2 were the yearly festivals and sabbaths of the sanctuary which were prophetic and were a type or foreshadowing of Jesus and His sacrifice. When Jesus came, when type met antitype they were no longer needed and were nailed to the cross v.14 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

This is not referring to the Sabbath commandment which was both spoken by God and written by His own finger to signify it’s permanence.

You are touting traditional SDA doctrine that tells you that that particular scripture isn’t referring to weekly sabbaths. Are you going to trust an SDA doctrine that was developed based on a false date-setting prophecy from 1844? Or are you going to research what the church fathers taught from the Apostles onward? :knight2:

After Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday, it became known as “the Lord’s day” or as resurrection day – and the Christians began meeting on that day to commemorate His resurrection and to “break bread” e.g. to celebrate the Lord’s supper, also known as communion (or the Eucharist in Catholicism). The Jews who rejected Jesus continued to meet on the Saturday Sabbath, while the Christians who followed Christ commemorated His resurrection on Sunday.

There is no sabbath conspiracy, as the Adventists have taught you!

 

[JRKH]

So, you think God’s “Law of Love” is different than the ten commandments?

If you will note by what Christ says in Mt 22:36-40, the Law of Love is the source and underpinning for the ten commandments.

Matt 23
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Jesus admonishes us to to do “whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do”
because they sit on Moses seat. IOW to keep the commandments. Including the Sabbath,
but He also tells them “do not ye after their works” because they are hypicrites.

Pecisely - Under the old covenant it is the Pharasees we were to obey for they were teh rightful authority. Under the New covenent (as I pointed out earlier) it is the Church, built upon Peter and with the authority to Bind and Loose, that we are to obey.

consider
Mark7
6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

Jesus tells us we need to keep the commandments and those of coarse include the Sabbath commandment. However He does warn us 7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Like the transferance of the sanctity of the Sabbath to the Sunday.

Again - you are fereing to something that applies under the old covenant.
We live under the new covenant.
Christ, by His cross and resurrection has freed us and made all things new.

I just reread this post and it is a little confusing. Let me claify. 1Thess.4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Of the many millions of people that have died before the return of Jesus there will be many Sunday keepers going to heaven with Jesus who truely believe that in Sunday they were keeping the Sabbath. However in the time just before Jesus comes The Sabbath message will be proclaimed with much ferver so that there will be no doubt as to which is the commandment of God and which is the commandment of men and of the people that are alive at Christ’s return that will be taken up to heaven with Him there will be no Sunday keepers. They have made thier choice to be obedient to man rather than God. And God will honor that choice. They will be destroyed by the brightness of His comming.

This remains confusing and contradictory and unclear.
Are you saying that, the message of this is being, “proclaimed with much ferver”, now by the SDA, or that this proclamation will be occurring in the future?
Are the “Sunday keepers” now, condemned becuase the SDA has thus proclaimed?
Or may “Sunday keepers” still make it to heaven because they are still to, “be judged by the light we received…”, as you said in an earlier post.

**The “Law of the New convenant” Is the same law as the old covenant inscribed on our hearts.
Jer.31
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. **
Yes - The Law of Love.

You do realise that Jesus was quoting the old testament when He gave these laws don’t you?
Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Yes I know that these things come from the OT.
But do you realize that the cammandment Jesus says is the second most important commandment of all is not even IN the ten commandments???
I find that rather interesting.

Peace
James