Seventh Day Adventists say Catholics changed...

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard:

I admire your and the SDA zeal to obey the commandments of God, but I reject your efforts to bring the rest of us under bondage. For we “are not under the law but under grace” ( Romans 6:14 ). If you and the SDA fail to recognize that the law of the New Testament is love for God and for one another and that it fulfills and supercedes all previous embodiments of divine principle, then it’s a clear issue. You all speak like a “noisy gong” or a clanging cymbal, because you do not give precedence and supremacy to the new and great commandment given us by Jesus: “to love one another as I have loved you”.

Instead of your belief that the law must be “kept” ( for is was for the Jews alone ) as a sign of obedience to God, Jesus ( who IS God ) teaches that the Christian obeys God when he obeys the supreme commandment of love. This teaching is reiterated by Paul who wrote to the Galatians that “All the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self” ( Gal. 5:14 ). Obviously if we love our neighbors as ourselves, we do so because we love God with all our hearts, souls, and minds. If we do not love God, we cannot love our neighbors as ourselves. Then, on this one great commandment rests the whole law and in all its aspects.

Also we do not believe in, nor accept, the SDA statement that we lose our salvation if we do not obey the law, since our salvation depends solely upon our love of and for God. Our salvation is a gift of God by grace alone.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Javal, Let’s look at Romans 6:14&15
14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

What is sin Javal, John defines sin as the transgression of the law.
1 John 3:4 (King James Version)
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
What law would that be? Well the Ten Commandments of coarse. So, what does Paul mean in Romans 6? What he is saying is that sin no longer has dominion over us because we have submitted ourselves to the grace of God in Jesus Christ and it is through His power that we gain victory over sin. That we no longer transgress the Ten Commandments. So, Paul asks the rehtorical question What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? The answer of coarse is, God forbid.

You say

Instead of your belief that the law must be “kept” ( for is was for the Jews alone ) as a sign of obedience to God, Jesus ( who IS God ) teaches that the Christian obeys God when he obeys the supreme commandment of love.

In Matt 22 The Pharasee lawyer asks Jesus 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Then He makes a curious comment.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So, we need to ask ourselves what He means by the law and the prophets? Well, this is the term that was used for scripture in Jesus time or the bible and the law refered to here is the law that God gave Moses including the Ten Commandments.

And the prophets talked to us of Jesus.
Revelation 19:10 (King James Version)
10b for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

See, the only function of God’s law is to show us that we are sinners.
Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So, the law teaches us that we are sinners and the prophets show us the solution to that sin problem. IOW Gods plan of Salvation in Jesus is based on His law of love. He is not saying that the Ten Commandments have been done away with, only that they are based on love, but this has always been the case.
Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

So God’s law of love is the Ten Commandments and they will be kept into eternity by His children, including the Sabbath.

Isaiah 66:22-23 (King James Version)
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

 

[Javl]

Thank you Richard for your answer to my post. The explanation(s) that you have presented may satisfy you, but, truthfully, I reject them for they contradict what Jesus taught about the law. Also I believe what Paul says “The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death” ( Romans 8:2 ).

Paul also reiterates what Jesus said and taught: “Owe no man anything but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law…” (Romans 13:8-10 ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[vera_dicere]

I worked with a SDA fella and he was always trying to convert me. I actually found it kind of amusing.

Regarding the sabbath business, he actually said the Roman Church (as he called it) worshiped on Sunday because we were actually worshiping the Roman Sun god, that’s why its called Sunday. And that our leadership only pretends its the “son” of God when really, its the sun god.

He then tried to tell me all about how evolution was evil.

He even gave me some books to read, which I thought were kinda quaint. I answered all his questions about the Catholic faith and disproved his misconceptions, but he’s still SDA. But in all honestly, he used to be a sex crazed, gluttonist atheist (his words), so if the SDA got him out of that life, then good, I did my bit of missionary work, and I have faith in the Lord that He will send other Catholics into that chap’s life to bring him to the true faith.

 

[Javl]

I worked with a SDA fella and he was always trying to convert me. I actually found it kind of amusing.

Regarding the sabbath business, he actually said the Roman Church (as he called it) worshiped on Sunday because we were actually worshiping the Roman Sun god, that’s why its called Sunday. And that our leadership only pretends its the “son” of God when really, its the sun god.

He then tried to tell me all about how evolution was evil.

He even gave me some books to read, which I thought were kinda quaint. I answered all his questions about the Catholic faith and disproved his misconceptions, but he’s still SDA. But in all honestly, he used to be a sex crazed, gluttonist atheist (his words), so if the SDA got him out of that life, then good, I did my bit of missionary work, and I have faith in the Lord that He will send other Catholics into that chap’s life to bring him to the true faith.

I have repect for the individual SDA since he/she loves God, but is sadly misinformed to the point of being brainwashed. The SDA church does not seem to accept what Christ has taught about the law. This I think will sooner or later lead to their downfall. It is up to us to pray to, and ask, the Holy Spirit to lead them all from darkness into the full light of Jesus’ teachings, without trying to put their type of spin on it. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[me_again]

Richard, you’ve made a distinction between the 10 commandments and all of the other Jewish laws and ordinances. The question is**:**

Were the 10 commandments, as well as the rest of the Jewish laws, nailed to the cross? And are they replaced by faith in the resurrection of Jesus, along with His request for believers to obey the new commandment, the law of love, upon which all the other commandments were predicated? The answer is yes.

Richard, choose the best answer**:** Which is greater**:*** Nailing the 10 commandments to the cross?
.

• Or nailing the Finger that wrote the 10 commandments to the cross?

To put it bluntly**: The Finger of God, which wrote the 10 commandments, was nailed to the cross**.

Subsequent to the nailing of the Finger of God to the cross, the Christians began celebrating the resurrection of Christ Jesus on the Lord’s Day, which is also known as Sunday, which is the day He rose from the dead. The other nine commandments are moral laws of love that we should unequivocally keep.

The Saturday sabbath was a specific sign between God and the Jews**;** the Sunday resurrection is a celebratory service where Christians drink the blood of Jesus and eat His flesh in remembrance of Him.

This is a very hard thing for you to swallow. However, Jesus is the Creator of the universe and He made the rules.

Richard is no longer trying to proselytize me after what I wrote above.

 

[Javl]

Richard is no longer trying to proselytize me after what I wrote above.

I don’t think so much as to proselytize as to get you to agree with the SDA theology.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Thank you Richard for your answer to my post. The explanation(s) that you have presented may satisfy you, but, truthfully, I reject them for they contradict what Jesus taught about the law.

Could you be a little more specific. What part of my post contradicts what Jesus said about the law? If you would site chapter and verse.

Also I believe what Paul says “The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death” ( Romans 8:2 ).

I don’t understand how you think this verse is telling us God’s law has been changed.

Here’s the first four vs. of Rom. 8
Romans 8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What v. 3 is saying is that we can’t keep the law in our sinful flesh. However v. 4 says “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” This v. calls the law righteous and that the only way we can keep it is to walk after the Spirit. The Spirit here would be the Spirit of God that we recieve at our baptism, which is the outward sign of our commitment to and faith in Jesus and what He has done on the cross.
1Jn.2
27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The anointing talked about here in 1 Jn.2 is of coarse the anointing of the Holy Spirit. This anointing is what Paul is talking about in Rom.8. Notice the similarity of words between 1Jn.2:27 and Jer.31: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So the righteousnees of the Law that God writes in our minds and in our inward parts through the baptism of the Holy Spirit is God’s law of love. The Ten Commandments.

Paul also reiterates what Jesus said and taught: “Owe no man anything but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law…” (Romans 13:8-10 ).
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem

Here’s all of Rom.13:8-10
8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

All this is saying is that you can’t keep the Ten Commandments without love. It certainly does not say the Commandments have been done away with or changed in any way, on the contrary. This is showing us the only way we can keep them.

 

[me_again]

Richard, you’ve made a distinction between the 10 commandments and all of the other Jewish laws and ordinances. The question is**:**

Were the 10 commandments, as well as the rest of the Jewish laws, nailed to the cross? And are they replaced by faith in the resurrection of Jesus, along with His request for believers to obey the new commandment, the law of love, upon which all the other commandments were predicated? The answer is yes.

Richard, choose the best answer**:** Which is greater**:*** Nailing the 10 commandments to the cross?
.

• Or nailing the Finger that wrote the 10 commandments to the cross?

To put it bluntly**: The Finger of God, which wrote the 10 commandments, was nailed to the cross**.

Subsequent to the nailing of the Finger of God to the cross, the Christians began celebrating the resurrection of Christ Jesus on the Lord’s Day, which is also known as Sunday, which is the day He rose from the dead. The other nine commandments are moral laws of love that we should unequivocally keep.

The Saturday sabbath was a specific sign between God and the Jews**;** the Sunday resurrection is a celebratory service where Christians drink the blood of Jesus and eat His flesh in remembrance of Him.

This is a very hard thing for you to swallow. However, Jesus is the Creator of the universe and He made the rules.

Richard, you still have not addressed the above questions.

When you were told that the 10 commandments were nailed to the cross, you countered by stating that they weren’t – and that only the ordinances that were written with men’s hands were nailed to the cross. Further, you said that since the Finger of God wrote the 10 commandments, then we should keep the Saturday sabbath instead of going to church on Resurrection Sunday aka the Lord’s day. However, when it was pointed out to you that the Finger of God, which wrote the 10 commandments, was nailed to the cross, you have remained silent on the issue.

When the Finger of God was nailed to the cross, Jesus died and a new covenant came into existence. It is His last will and testimony.

The Finger that wrote the 10 commandments was crucified on the cross – and now we are new creatures in Christ.

You also didn’t comment on Christians celebrating His memorial death and resurrection by drinking His blood and eating His flesh. Is this too barbaric for you? Click here and then scroll down to read the words of the Lord Jesus Christ about this issue.

 

[Javl]

Richard:

Thanks again for your response.

It should be noted that the Law was for the Jews ( Israel ) alone and not for the Gentiles. The Jews who follow Judaism today are still under the Law, not only the Decalogue but all the 600+ laws. Christian scholars, theologians, and clergy of all the Western and Eastern
Churches ( Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant ) all follow and teach ( all, that is, except for the SDA ) that we are no longer under the “Old Law”, but were given a new Law and a new and everlasting covenant by Jesus Christ

I would rather believe and abide by this, what is taught by Christendom, than by the interpretetion and teaching of the SDA.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[benidict]

Richard, you still have not addressed the above questions.

When you were told that the 10 commandments were nailed to the cross, you countered by stating that they weren’t – and that only the ordinances that were written with men’s hands were nailed to the cross. Further, you said that since the Finger of God wrote the 10 commandments, then we should keep the Saturday sabbath instead of going to church on Resurrection Sunday aka the Lord’s day. However, when it was pointed out to you that the Finger of God, which wrote the 10 commandments, was nailed to the cross, you have remained silent on the issue.

When the Finger of God was nailed to the cross, Jesus died and a new covenant came into existence. It is His last will and testimony.

The Finger that wrote the 10 commandments was crucified on the cross – and now we are new creatures in Christ.

You also didn’t comment on Christians celebrating His memorial death and resurrection by drinking His blood and eating His flesh. Is this too barbaric for you? Click here and then scroll down to read the words of the Lord Jesus Christ about this issue.

you know what? i never thought of it this way…that is awesome! thank you for teaching me something i would probably never have seen. your right… the finger of God WAS nailed to the cross, and with it the law he had given to moses…peace to you

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard:

Thanks again for your response.

It should be noted that the Law was for the Jews ( Israel ) alone and not for the Gentiles. The Jews who follow Judaism today are still under the Law, not only the Decalogue but all the 600+ laws. Christian scholars, theologians, and clergy of all the Western and Eastern
Churches ( Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant ) all follow and teach ( all, that is, except for the SDA ) that we are no longer under the “Old Law”, but were given a new Law and a new and everlasting covenant by Jesus Christ

Do you believe that we can break this so called “Old Law” and yet keep this new law?
Paul says Rom.7: 7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. He seems to think that breaking the “Old Law” as you put it is sin and do you really think that God will allow you into heaven if you are an unrepentant sinner?

I would rather believe and abide by this, what is taught by Christendom, than by the interpretetion and teaching of the SDA.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man (mankind) not just the Jews.
Mark2: 27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: And if the Sabbath was made for all mankind wouldn’t the rest of the commandments also be made for all mankind. And didn’t Jesus say Matt.5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

As for me, I don’t care what all of Christendom does or teaches. I’ll stick with the Master.

 

[benidict]

Do you believe that we can break this so called “Old Law” and yet keep this new law?
Paul says Rom.7: 7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. He seems to think that breaking the “Old Law” as you put it is sin and do you really think that God will allow you into heaven if you are an unrepentant sinner?

Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man (mankind) not just the Jews.
Mark2: 27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: And if the Sabbath was made for all mankind wouldn’t the rest of the commandments also be made for all mankind. And didn’t Jesus say Matt.5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

As for me, I don’t care what all of Christendom does or teaches. I’ll stick with the Master.

so richard. does your wife light the shabbat candles on friday evening when the 3rd star comes out. does she recite the blessings from the hebrew prayer book after doing this? just assuming your a guy, and have a lady. if not, then do you do this? and after the sabbath is complete on saturday evening, does your wife recite the blessings, and extingush the candles? this is all part of true sabbath worship practiced by the Jews. does your Church have a service on friday night? followed on sabbath morning by a torah study? all part of true sabbath worship. if not, then they are not holding to the sabbath. they have a form of it. it would be like taking first friday adoration for us Catholics, and chopping it to bits, taking this and that, and calling it something its not. basically, you have a protestant form of worship on saturday. the seventh day adventist do not even keep the proper sabbath. and there is a very good reason my friend. you are not Jewish. although im sure the local synagouge would be happy to have you in for services and torah study. then you could have a real sabbath experience. i know i have. wonderful people the Jews. and they can educate you better about the law, than most of our fellow Christians ever could. peace

 

[Richard_Kastner]

so richard. does your wife light the shabbat candles on friday evening when the 3rd star comes out. does she recite the blessings from the hebrew prayer book after doing this? just assuming your a guy, and have a lady. if not, then do you do this? and after the sabbath is complete on saturday evening, does your wife recite the blessings, and extingush the candles? this is all part of true sabbath worship practiced by the Jews. does your Church have a service on friday night? followed on sabbath morning by a torah study? all part of true sabbath worship. if not, then they are not holding to the sabbath. they have a form of it. it would be like taking first friday adoration for us Catholics, and chopping it to bits, taking this and that, and calling it something its not. basically, you have a protestant form of worship on saturday. the seventh day adventist do not even keep the proper sabbath. and there is a very good reason my friend. you are not Jewish. although im sure the local synagouge would be happy to have you in for services and torah study. then you could have a real sabbath experience. i know i have. wonderful people the Jews. and they can educate you better about the law, than most of our fellow Christians ever could. peace

All this is a nice diversion Ben and by this diversion you never really address my post do you? The fact is that Jesus your Lord and Savior said that He made the Sabbath for you. Another fact that is apparent is that God told us to

Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

All the rest of the things you talk about in your post are man made fluff that our God did not command us to do. He did however COMMAND us (you and me) to “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.” My advice to you would to be obedient to God.

 

[Javl]

Do you believe that we can break this so called “Old Law” and yet keep this new law?
Paul says Rom.7: 7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. He seems to think that breaking the “Old Law” as you put it is sin and do you really think that God will allow you into heaven if you are an unrepentant sinner?

No, we are not breaking the “Old Law” since Jesus fulfilled the “Old Law” and nailed it to the cross. It does not exist for Christians. Jesus, who gave us the “Old Law” has the authority to replace it for us with a NEW LAW and a NEW covenant. Since the SDA is so fixated on the “Old Law”, why does it not follow the entire Law? Or doesn’t the SDA think that these laws aren’t important?

Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man (mankind) not just the Jews.
Mark2: 27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: And if the Sabbath was made for all mankind wouldn’t the rest of the commandments also be made for all mankind. And didn’t Jesus say Matt.5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Please keep in mind that the word “Sabbath” does NOT mean Saturday, but “rest”. We all keep the Sabbath. The Commandment does not say to keep Saturday holy but to keep your rest day holy and devoted to God., or must we abide by the SDA interpretation?

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And Jesus has fulfilled it, therefore we are not bound by it but to the NEW LAW the He has given us.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

As for me, I don’t care what all of Christendom does or teaches. I’ll stick with the Master.

As does all of Christendom. If this is not so, then why did He say that He fulfilled the “Old Law” and then give us a new commandment which He says embodies the full law, and also a new and everlasting covenant? Doesn’t the SDA believe that Jesus is God and has the authority to do this? The “Old Law” was and is for the Jew alone, those who have rejected Jesus as the Messiah and God incarnate.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMessiach

 

[Richard_Kastner]

No, we are not breaking the “Old Law” since Jesus fulfilled the “Old Law” and nailed it to the cross. It does not exist for Christians. Jesus, who gave us the “Old Law” has the authority to replace it for us with a NEW LAW and a NEW covenant. Since the SDA is so fixated on the “Old Law”, why does it not follow the entire Law? Or doesn’t the SDA think that these laws aren’t important?

So, you are saying that it is ok for Christians to lie, steal, commit adultry, covet, and so on as long as we do it in love. *I’m confused Javal. How do we keep Christ’s law of love and disregard the Ten Commandments. In Matt.19 we see Jesus talking with the rich young man.
Matt.19
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Jesus seems to think that in order for this young man to get to heaven , he needs to keep the Ten Commandments. Why wouldn’t He have just told him to keep His law of love?

The law nailed to the cross was the Col.2:14 handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
There is nothing in the Decalogue that is against us, or contrary to us, or that is a shadow of anything. What all these things do discribe is the sacrificial law that pointed to Christ.

Please keep in mind that the word “Sabbath” does NOT mean Saturday, but “rest”. We all keep the Sabbath. The Commandment does not say to keep Saturday holy but to keep your rest day holy and devoted to God., or must we abide by the SDA interpretation?

This is not accurate. The commandment
Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

says remember the sabbath day, not a sabbath day.

Genesis 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Gen.2:3 says that God blessed the seventh day. Ex.20:10 identifies the seventh day as the Sabbath

Luke 23
52This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luke 24
1Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

And these verses in Luke put the Sabbath between Friday (Preperation day) and the first day or Sunday.

There is no doubt about which day God is talking when He says “**Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. **”

And Jesus has fulfilled it, therefore we are not bound by it but to the NEW LAW the He has given us. As does all of Christendom. If this is not so, then why did He say that He fulfilled the “Old Law” and then give us a new commandment which He says embodies the full law, and also a new and everlasting covenant? Doesn’t the SDA believe that Jesus is God and has the authority to do this? The “Old Law” was and is for the Jew alone, those who have rejected Jesus as the Messiah and God incarnate.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMessiach

By this He meant that He kept it. The only human to have done so.
Matt.5
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (keep)

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This doesn’t sound like He did away with the Decalogue does it?

 

[benidict]

All this is a nice diversion Ben and by this diversion you never really address my post do you? The fact is that Jesus your Lord and Savior said that He made the Sabbath for you. Another fact that is apparent is that God told us to

Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

All the rest of the things you talk about in your post are man made fluff that our God did not command us to do. He did however COMMAND us (you and me) to “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.” My advice to you would to be obedient to God.

but my friend. its not a diversion. part of holding to the old Sabbath is properly observing it. otherwise you are not obeying the commandment. so i guess your answer would be no. you do not observe the Sabbath. what is held is a protestant church service on saturday. would you consider spending time with a Jewish family, to learn how to properly observe the Sabbath? you may find it very enlightning. trust me the Lord would not condemn you for spending time with his Chosen. have Catholic brothers/sisters who do this. also know Jews who attend mass once in awhile on sundays. benificial both ways. Peace

 

[nguirado]

The Ten Commandments are expressions of the Natural Law and all men must follow it. Nobody can lie, steal, murder- it’s universal. The point of the Sabbath commandment is to take time out to recognize God.

It’s foolish to think that the specific day is part of the NL.

The NL has always been in existence. Cain sinned by killing Abel even before God gave the TC to man. Yet, neither he nor OT figures until Moses kept the Sabbath.

Therefore, while the concept of the Sabbath is part of the NL and unchangeable, the specific day or duration is mutable.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

but my friend. its not a diversion. part of holding to the old Sabbath is properly observing it. otherwise you are not obeying the commandment.

Ben,if you are going to answer a post you really should read more than the first line and you still have not addressed my post. Again all this stuff you mention as being part of keeping the Sabbath. You will not find in the bible. Now read this very closely Ben. This is how you keep the Sabbath

Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Thats it. You remember to keep the Sabbath holy.

so i guess your answer would be no. you do not observe the Sabbath.

I don’t believe I said that. My answer would be yes we do keep the Sabbath.

what is held is a protestant church service on saturday.

This is exactly right. I would add. Keeping the Sabbath holy.

would you consider spending time with a Jewish family, to learn how to properly observe the Sabbath?

I know how to keep the Sabbath Ben, because God tells me how. You can read it for yourself in Ex. 20 I have posted it above, for your convienience.

Now, Ben if you don’t mind. I would ask you to comment on What Jesus says in
Mark 2
27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Jesus clearly says that the sabbath was made for man not just the Jews. So, why aren’t you obeying Him?

 

[me_again]

All this is a nice diversion Ben and by this diversion you never really address my post do you?

Richard, how can you accuse Ben of providing a diversion to avoid answering your post when you have consistently avoided this writer’s questions? Is that being hypocritical? Pray tell? :tsktsk:

Richard, the scriptures have already been provided that refute keeping the Jewish Saturday sabbath day. The SDA “Finger of God” theory has unequovically been nailed to the cross, along with the Finger itself. Do you find God to be barbaric for such painful crucifixions? A SeventhDay Adventist once said “If God would send people to hell forever, then I want nothing to do with Him.” Some of the SDA comments are simply astounding.

There is a difference between being an apostate and a Judazier who is trying to put the people back under the law that the Lord has freed us from.

Richard, instead of hounding Ben for answers to your questions**:** You answer the previously asked questions by clicking here. npatrol:

 

[Javl]

So, you are saying that it is ok for Christians to lie, steal, commit adultry, covet, and so on as long as we do it in love. *I’m confused Javal. How do we keep Christ’s law of love and disregard the Ten Commandments. In Matt.19 we see Jesus talking with the rich young man.
Matt.19
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Jesus seems to think that in order for this young man to get to heaven , he needs to keep the Ten Commandments. Why wouldn’t He have just told him to keep His law of love?

The law nailed to the cross was the Col.2:14 handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
There is nothing in the Decalogue that is against us, or contrary to us, or that is a shadow of anything. What all these things do discribe is the sacrificial law that pointed to Christ.

This is not accurate. The commandment
Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

says remember the sabbath day, not a sabbath day.

Genesis 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Gen.2:3 says that God blessed the seventh day. Ex.20:10 identifies the seventh day as the Sabbath

Luke 23
52This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luke 24
1Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

And these verses in Luke put the Sabbath between Friday (Preperation day) and the first day or Sunday.

There is no doubt about which day God is talking when He says “**Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. **”

Once again, the Sabbath does not mean Saturday. The seventh day of your work week is to be kept as the Sabbath. There are those that that work from Monday to Saturday and therefore do not keep the Sabbath on a Saturday. Are these to be condemned?

Keep in mind that up until Julius Caesar, a pagan, named the days of the week after pagan gods, the days of the week were identified only by their numerical position: the first day, the second day, etc. Since the seventh day was named to honor the god Saturn, the Jews of the day were more or less forced to adopt those names and Saturday became the Sabbath day.

By this He meant that He kept it. The only human to have done so.
Matt.5
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (keep)

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This doesn’t sound like He did away with the Decalogue does it?

In all the dictionaries that I have and others that I have refered to have the word fulfil as “to complete” also. In fulfiling a promise you not only keep it but you also complete it. Why only keep something if it cannot be completed? I’m sorry Richard, but your and the SDA interpretation and understanding of scripture does seem to be limited to whatever you want it to say to support your understanding of it. All of Christendom cannot be out of step with the SDA. I still believe in and adhere to Jesus’ teachings of the law without putting any spin on it.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem
Shalom haMeshiach