Seventh Day Adventists say Catholics changed...

[Richard_Kastner]

Once again, the Sabbath does not mean Saturday. The seventh day of your work week is to be kept as the Sabbath. There are those that that work from Monday to Saturday and therefore do not keep the Sabbath on a Saturday. Are these to be condemned?

You read the posts that I provided and you still hold to this. The fourth commandment even states. 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: These are not my words Javal. These are the words of the one true God. I know that Sabbath means rest. But in the fourth commandment it is refering to a specific day.

Keep in mind that up until Julius Caesar, a pagan, named the days of the week after pagan gods, the days of the week were identified only by their numerical position: the first day, the second day, etc. Since the seventh day was named to honor the god Saturn, the Jews of the day were more or less forced to adopt those names and Saturday became the Sabbath day.

Who cares what the pagan names of the days are. The bible calls the days by numbers except for two, The Preperation day. Which was in preperation for the Sabbath day and the Sabbath day.

In all the dictionaries that I have and others that I have refered to have the word fulfil as “to complete” also. In fulfiling a promise you not only keep it but you also complete it. Why only keep something if it cannot be completed? I’m sorry Richard, but your and the SDA interpretation and understanding of scripture does seem to be limited to whatever you want it to say to support your understanding of it. All of Christendom cannot be out of step with the SDA. I still believe in and adhere to Jesus’ teachings of the law without putting any spin on it.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem
Shalom haMeshiach

Matt.5
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (keep)

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Again I ask you. Does this sound like He did away with the Decalogue?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard, how can you accuse Ben of providing a diversion to avoid answering your post when you have consistently avoided this writer’s questions? Is that being hypocritical? Pray tell? :tsktsk:

Ok, me I’ll play your little game. At least for a little while. First of all Ben did use a diversion because he answered my post without adressing anything in my post. I have not been hypocritical or diversionary towards you because I have not answered your posts and I haven’t Answered your posts because I find this finger of God theory as you call it so amazingly silly.

Richard, the scriptures have already been provided that refute keeping the Jewish Saturday sabbath day.

I must have missed those could you repost them?

The SDA “Finger of God” theory has unequovically been nailed to the cross,

I have no idea what you mean by this.

along with the Finger itself.

Jesus was nailed to the cross. Not just His finger.

Do you find God to be barbaric for such painful crucifixions?

God didn’t crucify Jesus. You and I did.

A SeventhDay Adventist once said “If God would send people to hell forever, then I want nothing to do with Him.” Some of the SDA comments are simply astounding.

What’s your point?

There is a difference between being an apostate and a Judazier who is trying to put the people back under the law that the Lord has freed us from.

What Paul is talking about in Gal. 3 is the Judaizers attempting to use the law as a means of salvation. Paul says we are cured when we try that. Not ony because we can’t keep the law perfectly but because it takes our eyes off the only way we can be saved and that is by faith in the blood of Jesus.

Richard, instead of hounding Ben for answers to your questions**:** You answer the previously asked questions by clicking here. npatrol:

I’m not hounding anyone. As for your question.

Were the 10 commandments, as well as the rest of the Jewish laws, nailed to the cross? And are they replaced by faith in the resurrection of Jesus, along with His request for believers to obey the new commandment, the law of love, upon which all the other commandments were predicated? The answer is yes.

You seem to have already answered it. If you want me to answer this you will need to break it down into answerable questions. For instance The Ten Commandments and the health laws were not. The Levitical sacrificial laws of types and shadows were. See this “And are they replaced by faith in the resurrection of Jesus” assumes that all the laws were nailed to the cross. They were not.

 

[Javl]

You read the posts that I provided and you still hold to this. The fourth commandment even states. 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: These are not my words Javal. These are the words of the one true God. I know that Sabbath means rest. But in the fourth commandment it is refering to a specific day.

Yes, the seventh day after six days of work. Again I ask, if a person has to work through the seventh day ( Saturday ) and can only rest on the first day ( Sunday ) is he then disobeying the Law and to be condemned?

Jesus gave His Apostles, and His Church, the authority to bind and to loose, and under this authority, Christendom keeps Sunday as the “Day of The Lord” in His honor and in celebration of His rising from the dead.

Who cares what the pagan names of the days are. The bible calls the days by numbers except for two, The Preperation day. Which was in preperation for the Sabbath day and the Sabbath day.

Again, who knows which modern days of the week those days are/were? The SDA is so fixated on Saturday, even if it is not mentioned in scripture.

Matt.5
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (keep)

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Again I ask you. Does this sound like He did away with the Decalogue?

The commandment given by Jesus, to love one another, contains the whole meaning of the decalogue. If this were not so, then why did He give us a new commandment which he said was as great as the first commandment of the decalogue? Why did He make a new and everlasting covenant ( for non-jews )? If I go according to SDA theory and teaching, I find that Jesus is contradicting Himself. Sorry, my friend, I cannot accept the SDA stance, no matter what spin you put on it.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[me_again]

Jesus gave His Apostles, and His Church, the authority to bind and to loose, and under this authority, Christendom keeps Sunday as the “Day of The Lord” in His honor and in celebration of His rising from the dead.

Javi is correct and that’s why the Apostles began coming together to worship, preach and celebrate the Lord’s Supper (Eucharist) on Sunday, all in memory and honor of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Saturday Jewish sabbath was a foreshadowing of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. It was a foreshadowing of the spiritual security we have in what Jesus did on the cross – and not in the legalism of trying to maintain the Jewish Saturday sabbath. The apostles were free from legalism – and that’s why they were free to celebrate the Lord’s resurrection on Sunday, instead of continuing to go to synagogue with the Jews on Saturday.

There was too much friction between those two groups (believers and unbelievers), so it became convenient for the believers to gather on Resurrection Sunday instead of on the Jewish Saturday sabbath – and it was done under the apostolic direction of the apostles. It was not safe for Jewish Christians to attend synagogue on the Jewish Saturday sabbath**;** the Jewish leaders had assigned some of their Jewish leaders to persecute these Jewish Christians e.g. the Apostle Paul was tasked with hunting down Jewish Christians and, thus, they avoided co-mingling with the unbelieving Jews in synagogues on the Jewish Saturday sabbath. However, the Adventists have soooo misconstrued this entire scenario to egregiously suggest that those who follow the direction of the apostolic father’s have, by default, accepted the mark of the beast. It’s preposterously ridiculous**;** this egregious teaching comes from the deceased founder of Adventism**:** Ellen G. White.

 

[me_again]

Richard, the following is not directed personally to you, per se.

If the Adventists are going to celebrate the Jewish Saturday sabbath, they should celebrate it the same way our Jews-for-Jesus do that still hold the Saturday sabbath. However, the Adventists won’t consistently attend Saturday sabbath services with the Jews-for-Jesus because the SDAs follow the prolific writings and teachings of their [deceased] cult leader**:** Ellen G. White. When White is removed from the equation, Adventism crumbles. Ellen G. White is similar to Joseph Smith (for the Mormons) and Charles Taze Russell (for the Jehovah Witnesses). Each of those Christian [sic] cults must rely on the prolific writings of their leader to maintain the existence of their Christian [sic] sect. If the writings of the cult leader are removed, then the sect implodes.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Yes, the seventh day after six days of work. Again I ask, if a person has to work through the seventh day ( Saturday ) and can only rest on the first day ( Sunday ) is he then disobeying the Law and to be condemned?

Javl, you need to read this commandment through very carefully and prayerfully
Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Then you need to ask yourself to whom do you give your allegiance. If it’s to man then you may keep any day you wish or non at all and it really doesn’t matter if you pay any attention to the rest of the commandments either, But if your allegiance is to God. Then you need to obey the commandment. Now, there are jobs that are acceptable. Health care workers could not withhold care from patients for instance. But if you have a factory job. You need to make a choice.

Joel 3:14
Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Jesus gave His Apostles, and His Church, the authority to bind and to loose, and under this authority, Christendom keeps Sunday as the “Day of The Lord” in His honor and in celebration of His rising from the dead.

Jesus gave no power to His church or anyone else to change His laws. The Sabbath will be kept in the new heaven and earth.
Isaiah 66: 22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

It will be kept forever. Ex.31
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Again, who knows which modern days of the week those days are/were? The SDA is so fixated on Saturday, even if it is not mentioned in scripture.

Luke 23
52This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luke 24
1Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Ok, i’ve posted this before and I have a feeling that you read it before. This time you need to pay attention. These vs. show us that Jesus was laid in the tomb on the Preperation day, Friday, He rested in the tomb on the Sabbath and He rose on the first day Sunday. That means that the Sabbath day is SATURDAY. Now don’t give me this I don’t know which day the Sabbath day is buisiness. You know which day Sunday is. You know which day is the Sabbath.

The commandment given by Jesus, to love one another, contains the whole meaning of the decalogue.

Of coarse it does. He gave it to show us that the Decalogue was/is based on love.

If this were not so, then why did He give us a new commandment which he said was as great as the first commandment of the decalogue? Why did He make a new and everlasting covenant ( for non-jews )? If I go according to SDA theory and teaching, I find that Jesus is contradicting Himself. Sorry, my friend, I cannot accept the SDA stance, no matter what spin you put on it.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

I’ll answer this last part after Sabbath service. Peace Javl

 

[me_again]

Ok, me I’ll play your little game. At least for a little while.

Richard, the Adventist commandment that Catholics must keep the Saturday Jewish sabbath – or else they have received the “mark of the beast” – is not a little game. This Adventist commandment is from Satan, the father of lies – and it has ensnared many unsuspecting SeventhDay Adventists in this gooey honey-like doctrine, to include yourself… :tsktsk:

Let’s do a little comparison and contrast:

Point 1
SeventhDay Adventist: Adventist doctrine preaches that the stone 10 commandments have been preserved in the ancient ark of the covenant in heaven.

Catholic: Catholic doctrine preaches that the new commandment of love (Jesus) was brought forth in the new ark of the covenant (Mother Mary).

Point 2
SeventhDay Adventist: Adventist doctrine preaches that the stone 10 commandments are in full force – or penalty of death.

Catholic: Catholic doctrine preaches that the stone 10 commandments have been replaced because God writes them on the fleshy tablets of our hearts through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit – and now we keep the 9 moral commandments, but the commandment to keep the Jewish Saturday sabbath is abolished, as is demonstrated by apostolic tradition e.g. it began with the 11 disciples after the resurrection of Jesus.

Point 3
SeventhDay Adventist: The unbelieving Jews, along with the Judaizing Adventists, keep the Jewish Saturday sabbath as a “point of law.”

Catholic: The believing Christians celebrate the death, burial, resurrection and Eucharist of the Lord Jesus Christ on Resurrection Sunday, also known as “the Lord’s day.”

Point 4
SeventhDay Adventist: The Adventist doctrines came into existence in 1844 when Jesus was promised to return in that year. When He didn’t return, the Adventist cult leader (Ellen Gould White) created a heretical doctrine called the 1844 Sanctuary Cleansing to explain that while the prophecies about the return of Jesus in 1844 were incorrect, they were “close” because what it really meant was that Jesus actually entered heavenly holy of holies in 1844. From this false prophecy sprang forth the SDA sect, to include Saturday sabbatarianism.

Catholicism: The Catholic doctrines came into existence in 33 A.D. when Jesus rose from the dead.

Point 5
SeventhDay Adventist: Adventism is built upon the teachings of a woman named Ellen Gould White. When the teachings of Ellen White are removed from the equation, Adventism disappears.

Catholic: Catholicism was framed and formed by the Lord Jesus Christ and He said that the gates of hell will not prevail against it because it’s built upon the rock.

Point 6
SeventhDay Adventism: Adventism teaches that “the end of the world is near.”

Catholicism: Catholicism teaches that the end is near for you and for me, individually e.g. life is short here on this earth, especially when it’s compared to eternity. Click here for more information.

Point 7
SeventhDay Adventism: Adventism was built upon a false date-setting prophecy that the Second Coming of Christ would happen in the year 1844.

Catholicism: Catholicism is built on the scriptures that says that only the Father knows when the Second Coming will occur – and it’s not for us to know this.

 

[T_More]

Much like the JW’s, the SDA’s were/are an American grown 19th century restorationist movement that made predictions that did not come to pass.

 

[benidict]

let us also not forget, that the law of circumcision was done away with too, by the apolstles. as was the restrictions on foods that were considered unclean. the only restrictions on food, was things sacrificed to idols, and eating meat with the blood still in it. since this is the lifeblood of the animal. the apostles stated that we should abstain from sexual immorality. if we do these things we do well. this really comes down to apostolic authority, and apparently the SDA denies that Jesus gave the apolstles this authority. they did change a number of things. ande their are plenty of verses in the new testament that state the day is not important, one man esteems one day more important than another etc. i could throw verses out there enmass too. but verse swapping accomplishes nothing. we also need to look at the historical context. apparently the SDA is not able to do this. sad.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

The commandment given by Jesus, to love one another, contains the whole meaning of the decalogue. If this were not so, then why did He give us a new commandment which he said was as great as the first commandment of the decalogue? Why did He make a new and everlasting covenant ( for non-jews )? If I go according to SDA theory and teaching, I find that Jesus is contradicting Himself. Sorry, my friend, I cannot accept the SDA stance, no matter what spin you put on it.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

I think you and most people have a misunderstanding of what is meant by the covenant. Yes it does mean the wording of the commandments as being a covenant, but the wording of the covenant (The Ten Commandments) Is the same in the old as well as the new. What has changed is who the covenant is with. This is brought out in Jer.31
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

See the Jews broke the covenant (before Moses got down from Sinai). So God made a new covenant. Notice this new covenant is still with the house of Israel. In this new covenant God writes **His law **in our minds and in our hearts. He does this through the baptism of the Holy Spirit made possible by Jesus. This is further brought out in Hebrews 8
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Here we see that there was a fault with the first covenant. Let me state unequivically that there was nothing wrong with the covenant that God gave us (The Ten Commandments) God is perfect and everythig that comes out of His mouth is perfect. So, what is Paul talking about here in Heb. V. 8 tells us “8For finding fault with them” The fault was not with the wording of the covenant, but who the covenant was with. So wereas the old covenant was made with the entire house of Israel the new covenant is made with one man a representative of all of the house of Israel. That one man is Jesus.

 

[me_again]

let us also not forget, that the law of circumcision was done away with too, by the apolstles. as was the restrictions on foods that were considered unclean. the only restrictions on food, was things sacrificed to idols, and eating meat with the blood still in it. since this is the lifeblood of the animal. the apostles stated that we should abstain from sexual immorality. if we do these things we do well.

If you go deeper into Adventism, you will experience a push to eat vegetarian or vegan. The SDAs will tell you that before Noah’s flood, God’s people were vegetarians, but after the flood, people became more barbaric and began eating meat. These vegetarian theories were espoused by the SDA founder (Ellen Gould White).

** this really comes down to apostolic authority, and apparently the SDA denies that Jesus gave the apolstles this authority**. they did change a number of things.

That is correct. Adventist do not believe in apostolic authority and do not believe that the apostles had the authority to tell Christians to gather on Resurrection Sunday instead of the Jewish Saturday sabbath.

ande their are plenty of verses in the new testament that state the day is not important, one man esteems one day more important than another etc. i could throw verses out there enmass too. but verse swapping accomplishes nothing. we also need to look at the historical context. apparently the SDA is not able to do this. sad.

The verses that you present to Adventists will not be interpreted in the same ways that have historically been interpreted by Christians from the days of the apostolic fathers.

For example…

When Jesus said the angels immediately came and took Lazarus and the rich man to their appointed places in the realm of the dead, the Adventists say that Jesus really wasn’t saying that they have consciousness after death. Instead, Adventists claim that the true story that Jesus is imparting is that being rich won’t get you to heaven. That’s an example of how some Adventists have been blinded by the devil with doctrines of demons i.e. they have eyes to see, but they cannot understand.

 

[benidict]

I think you and most people have a misunderstanding of what is meant by the covenant. Yes it does mean the wording of the commandments as being a covenant, but the wording of the covenant (The Ten Commandments) Is the same in the old as well as the new. What has changed is who the covenant is with. This is brought out in Jer.31
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

See the Jews broke the covenant (before Moses got down from Sinai). So God made a new covenant. Notice this new covenant is still with the house of Israel. In this new covenant God writes **His law **in our minds and in our hearts. He does this through the baptism of the Holy Spirit made possible by Jesus. This is further brought out in Hebrews 8
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Here we see that there was a fault with the first covenant. Let me state unequivically that there was nothing wrong with the covenant that God gave us (The Ten Commandments) God is perfect and everythig that comes out of His mouth is perfect. So, what is Paul talking about here in Heb. V. 8 tells us “8For finding fault with them” The fault was not with the wording of the covenant, but who the covenant was with. So wereas the old covenant was made with the entire house of Israel the new covenant is made with one man a representative of all of the house of Israel. That one man is Jesus.

that does raise an interesting point my friend. does adventism teach that God is done with Israel i.e. the Jews as a people? is there no future plan for them? peace

 

[me_again]

The Lord’s got it all worked out.

 

[Javl]

Javl, you need to read this commandment through very carefully and prayerfully
Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Then you need to ask yourself to whom do you give your allegiance. If it’s to man then you may keep any day you wish or non at all and it really doesn’t matter if you pay any attention to the rest of the commandments either, But if your allegiance is to God. Then you need to obey the commandment. Now, there are jobs that are acceptable. Health care workers could not withhold care from patients for instance. But if you have a factory job. You need to make a choice.

Joel 3:14
Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

Jesus gave no power to His church or anyone else to change His laws. The Sabbath will be kept in the new heaven and earth.
Isaiah 66: 22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

It will be kept forever. Ex.31
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Luke 23
52This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luke 24
1Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Ok, i’ve posted this before and I have a feeling that you read it before. This time you need to pay attention. These vs. show us that Jesus was laid in the tomb on the Preperation day, Friday, He rested in the tomb on the Sabbath and He rose on the first day Sunday. That means that the Sabbath day is SATURDAY. Now don’t give me this I don’t know which day the Sabbath day is buisiness. You know which day Sunday is. You know which day is the Sabbath.

Of coarse it does. He gave it to show us that the Decalogue was/is based on love.

I’ll answer this last part after Sabbath service. Peace Javl

 

[Javl]

Javl, you need to read this commandment through very carefully and prayerfully
Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Then you need to ask yourself to whom do you give your allegiance. If it’s to man then you may keep any day you wish or non at all and it really doesn’t matter if you pay any attention to the rest of the commandments either, But if your allegiance is to God. Then you need to obey the commandment. Now, there are jobs that are acceptable. Health care workers could not withhold care from patients for instance. But if you have a factory job. You need to make a choice.

Joel 3:14
Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

I know the commandment given to me by Jesus. Jesus, who is God and the God of the Old Testament who gave the Jews “the Law”, has given us a NEW LAWwhich we all adhere to. We ARE NOT under any obligation to adhere to the “Old Law”. You and the SDA either refuse to accept this and/or ignore it or totaly mis-understand its purpose.

Jesus gave no power to His church or anyone else to change His laws. The Sabbath will be kept in the new heaven and earth.
Isaiah 66: 22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

It will be kept forever. Ex.31
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

I guess Jesus was just blowing bubbles in the wind when He told the Apostles that they and the Church had the authority to bind and loose on earth and it will be done in heaven ( Matt. 16:17-19)?

Also “the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath,” which the present day Jews still do. We also keep the Sabbath, but on “the Lord’s Day”.

Luke 23
52This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luke 24
1Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Ok, i’ve posted this before and I have a feeling that you read it before. This time you need to pay attention. These vs. show us that Jesus was laid in the tomb on the Preperation day, Friday, He rested in the tomb on the Sabbath and He rose on the first day Sunday. That means that the Sabbath day is SATURDAY. Now don’t give me this I don’t know which day the Sabbath day is buisiness. You know which day Sunday is. You know which day is the Sabbath.

Yes, we know. The Christian’s Sabbath is on Sunday, which is the "Lord’s Day. We are under no obligation to keep the “Old Law”, since Jesus gave us a new Law ( Matt. 22:34-40 ).

Of coarse it does. He gave it to show us that the Decalogue was/is based on love.

I’ll answer this last part after Sabbath service. Peace Javl

By adhering with obstnacy to the “Old Law” and judging us by it, you all are acting in God’s place who is the One Judge. You also place great emphasis on the decalogue while practically ignoring the whole law. We do not judge you for this. If you wish to place the “Old Law” at the forefront of your religion, along with the non-Messianic Jews, so be it, but please do not insist that we are wrong in following Jesus precepts and teachings because of your, and the SDA, mis-understanding and mis-interpretation, and denial of them. We hold the Sabbath sacred and Holy, but not Saturday as you do.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[me_again]

Much like the JW’s, the SDA’s were/are an American grown 19th century restorationist movement that made predictions that did not come to pass.

Adventist doctrines came into existence in 1844 when Jesus was falsely promised to return in that year. When He didn’t return, the Adventist cult leader (Ellen Gould White) created a heretical doctrine called the 1844 Sanctuary Cleansing to explain that while the prophecies about the return of Jesus in 1844 were incorrect, they were “close” because what it really meant was that Jesus actually entered heavenly holy of holies in 1844. From this false prophecy sprang forth the SDA sect, to include Saturday sabbatarianism.

 

[benidict]

i wonder what they are going to do, when the sunday laws never come to fruition, and how much time is that going to take? i think this movement is doomed to failure eventually. seeing as how they misinterpret scripture, and the only time the sabbath was banned, was under antiachus epiphinas. oh well. if they want to write themselve into those fulfilled prophecies so be it. premillinialist make the same error. Peace

 

[Richard_Kastner]

that does raise an interesting point my friend. does adventism teach that God is done with Israel i.e. the Jews as a people? is there no future plan for them? peace

It’s interesting that after my long post on the difference between the old and new covenant, that this is the only question you ask. You never even aknowledge the content of my post. Again a diversion from the topic.

To answer your question. First of all, the things that I have posted are what Adventists teach because they are in the bible, THE WORD OF GOD. So, they are things that God teaches us. Adventists teach nothing that is not in the bible. That is why I use so many bible vs. Second we must first ask. Who are the Jews? What does the bible talk about as a Jew?

Romans 2
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So, Paul seems to think that being a Jew has nothing to do with ethnicity. What it has to do with is this circumcision of the heart. What does that mean. Well let’s go back to

Jeremiah31
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The new covenant that God makes is with the house of Israel (Jews) and this new covenant consists of God writing His law on our minds and in our hearts. We have already seen that being a Jew of the new covenant has nothing to do with ethnicity. What it had to do with is the circumcision of the heart and as we see in Jer. this means having God’s law written in our minds and in our hearts. This writing of the law on the mind and heart is done by the baptism of the Holy Spirit of God and is accomplished by Christs sacrifice on the cross.

1Jn.2
27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Here John talks about this baptism (anointing) of the Spirit. He says if we have this anointig of the Spirit (have the law written in our minds and hearts) we are Christ’s. IOW we become Spiritual Jews, members of God’s chosen people, not by being circumcised in the flesh but in the Spirit.

1Cor.2
11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

See, Ben we need to ask ourselves. What does the bible mean by God’s chosen people? What does it mean to be a Jew? God chose a people for one reason and that was to be a vehicle to bring about His plan of Salvation. That was accomplished in Jesus Christ. Now we become a Spiritual Jew in Christ. So you see God’s plan for His people is the same now and always has been that He would dwell with us and He would be our God and we would be His people.

Rev.21
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

[me_again]

It’s interesting that after my long post on the difference between the old and new covenant, that this is the only question you ask. You never even aknowledge the content of my post. Again a diversion from the topic.

Richard, maybe he doesn’t agree with your interpretation of those scriptures and finds it pointless to counter-post a commensurate number of scriptures that you will simply disagree with? :newidea:

First of all, the things that I have posted are what Adventists teach because they are in the bible, THE WORD OF GOD. So, they are things that God teaches us.

That’s the exact same thing that the JWs teach, but their interpretations are equally wrong. Richard, in your mind, the teachings of the SDA sect are correct interpretations of bible passages**;** conversely, in the minds of JWs, their teachings are equally correct. There are a myriad of biblical interpretations and all of them can’t be correct. The SDA interpretations were only recently invented, starting in the year 1844, which, ironically, is the same time-frame that the JW teachings were invented by Charles Taze Russell.

Adventists teach nothing that is not in the bible.

Then why does the SDA sect have over a billion pages of Ellen White’s writings online at “The Ellen G. White Estate” at whiteestate.org/ ?

The SDAs teach that Ellen Gould White is the “Spirit of Prophecy” and that her writings were inspired by the Holy Spirit – and that’s why they post White’s prolific writings online. Even though Ellen White is dead, she still has a cult-like following within the SDA sect. And Richard, you know it’s true!!!

 

[me_again]

Richard, you expect us to diligently read all of your scriptures. Here is something for you to read:
thetrailhome.blogspot.com/2008/02/trail-home.html