Seventh Day Adventists say Catholics changed...

[zach_dunn]

Just wondering, but how is the Gnostic concept of an immortal soul compatible with 1 Thess 4?

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here because I find nothing in 1 Thessalonians 4 that is at odds with a belief in an immortal soul . . . what do you think animates ours and resurrected bodies? Anyway, if you’re referring to the phrase “fallen asleep”, that’s just a euphemism for being dead. So just so I’m on the same page as you, would you care to explain what you mean?

 

[DLONex]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here because I find nothing in 1 Thessalonians 4 that is at odds with a belief in an immortal soul . . . what do you think animates ours and resurrected bodies? Anyway, if you’re referring to the phrase “fallen asleep”, that’s just a euphemism for being dead. So just so I’m on the same page as you, would you care to explain what you mean?

Perhaps if you could define exactly what is considered an “immortal soul” in Catholic doctrine it would help me out some. The idea of there being some invisible core to you that makes up all that is you which resides inside what is essentially some flesh suit which is meaningless in and of itself is very Gnostic, and I don’t find it represented in scripture.

However, if by “immortal soul” you mean the neshama breathed by God into man to give him life in Genesis 2, which is God’s animation of a being that is entirely you, then I can go with it somewhat. This breath from God is rendered in Greek as psyche, which is completely different from the pneuma that is rendered “soul” in the Gnostic meaning to Greeks (but is used by the New Testament to describe the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, unclean spirits, and in the same sense we would use it in the phrase “spirit of friendship.”). This is part of why it’s easy to see Jesus as divine in the New Testament, as he is shown as having pneuma all his own (in contrast to the apostles who were given the Holy Spirit (pneuma). Christ is contrasted with Adam, a regular man:

1Co 15:45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being psyche]”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit pneuma.

Pneuma is also used in the comparison/contrast of the world versus the holy, namely through use of the “flesh” versus “spirit” phrasing in English. Likewise, it can mean a ghost, as Christ shows his flesh and bone after resurrection to prove he is not a ghost (pneuma). The word’s a workhorse in Greek compared to psyche. It’s so much so that I find it hard to make a definitive case of the handful of occurrences where it is not perfectly clear which meaning is being used. So, I’m not saying there’s no “immortal soul” . . . I just saying it depends on what exactly you consider an “immortal soul” to be.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard,

We have been down the road before. Just as you keep pulling out Bible quotes, it is also very evident that everyone disagreeing with you, know and live out the same Bible quotes…but we are living it out in a different context.

So, what are you saying that we are both right?

And there are millions of people out there, Christians, from different denominations, who also read the same bible quotes, but get even different responses and different opinions as you and us.

So, are you saying that all these divergient views are right or are you saying that I am wrong? Time to take a stand Kathleen.

Christ wants His Church universal and unifying for all people that we can be of one heart and one mind…not disputing factions.

Just as it takes an act of faith to believe in Jesus Christ as one’s savior, so does it take an act of faith to believe the Catholic Church is Christ’s church He founded.

We are not called to a life of disputes and anger, but to a life in the Holy Spirit bearing His fruits.

Ok, let me ask you Kathleen what’s your take on this passage? Especially verse 16

Heb.10
Heb.10
10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

 

[KathleenGee]

In no way, does the passage from Hebrews invalidate the Catholic priesthood.

As you have been told by others many times, there were many books as well as gnostic materials that were not incorporated into the Bible.

The Apostles were given the mandate to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ. They founded churches throughout the world at that time.

Pentecost was the beginning of the Church…it is a social institution that integrates the Word of God into Church. There is where you have to study how the Word of God came to those people, how they received the Word, and how they incorporated the Word of God into communal gatherings. The apostles chose bishops and others to head these local churches…

It is the God given duty to erect, administrate, devise practices the community recognizes and shares. It is the duty of consecrated ministers to ensure that the truth of Jesus Christ be defined and shared by all the different churches as we are called to be one.

The Breaking of the Bread is a Jewish custom Christ Himself practiced. It is significant that he had the Last Supper and explicity explained there what He meant prior about eating and drinking of His flesh and blood, that lost some of His followers. He practiced this ritual with the Apostles…He showed its importance. If it wasn’t, He would not have performed it. He says heaven will be as a banquet table. Christians broke bread in homes and synagogues. The focus of worship was centered on the day of the Lord’s resurrection.

Jesus did not pass out Bibles and the Apostles did not either. The Word of God was passed down through the Oral Tradition, meaning as well the incarnation of Christ in people, not in books.

Christ is the head of the new order of priesthood.

What I am getting at is you have to see the Word of God in context in how earliest Christianity developed. I say you can’t press Bible quotes to other Bible quotes without knowing the origins of how the Bible was taught. It wasn’t used. There was no printing press until 1,400 years later. Christianity evolved without the bible in the hands of its followers, and that does not make them any less authentic than people who own bibles today.

You have to study the Word Made Flesh…The Word incarnated through the apostles and the gathering of people in the early breaking of the bread to how there developed in many areas a basic format of worship.

St. Justin the Martyr died around 133 AD…St. John the Evangelist died around the year 90 AD…that is only a 40 year difference. The description of the Breaking of the Bread described the Mass, its tone and ambient that is equal to the Mass today.

At Mass we learn again and witness the lives of the Jewish believers in the Old Testament and then praise the Lord in the psalms, and then hear a reading from the apostles and their followers. Then we go into the Gospel being given the homily. After the Liturgy of the Word, we begin with the offertory, then the consecration, and giving thanks to the great Amen, and then communion.

Let me see, I am bringing my calculator up…OK let us say St. Justin the Martyr wrote his treatise of what happens at Mass at around 128 AD…that is about one thousand, eight hundred, and eighty two years Christianity has been worshipping the Lord at Mass with the presbyter or priest.

The big heresy was not that you did not have a Bible. The Great Heresy was rather that Jesus Christ was not present in the consecrated bread and wine.

You can’t separate the Word of God from the the people into which is incarnated…how they received the Word, how they incorporated faith into every day life. You have to study the people, their times, the context of events that affected their faith and the development of their local church.

The Word of God does not stand on its own. Its construct is God speaking to us. God and people. The Word of God is to give us new life in Him, to redeem, save, and restore. God is too big to use a big whip over us. The Word of God is His love letters to us.

 

[me_again]

Richard,

Please don’t be personally offended by the following because it is not directed at you. Instead, it is directed exclusively at the Adventist teachings that you are espousing, okay?

**////////////////// TURN ON ANTI-CULT MESSAGE /////////////////

SDA teachings are rubbish because they are predicated on a woman named Ellen Gould White who taught that Jesus “secretly” entered the holy of holies in heaven in the year 1844. This false prophecy from Adventism is called the Sanctuary Doctrine of 1844.

This nutty doctrine was developed by Ms. White because the second coming of the Lord didn’t happen in 1844 – as was promised!!! In order to validate the failed prophecy, Ellen White conjured up the 1844 Sanctuary Doctrine. The entire Adventist denomination is grounded upon this false prophecy and heretical teaching. That should be a clue to any reasonable person that Adventism is predicated on heresy.

Many subsequent Adventist teachings are equally heretical, to include the soul sleep doctrine, which the Adventist share with the Jehovah Witnesses. It’s interesting to note that both of these “Christian denominations” [sic] were founded upon false promises of specific dates for the second coming of Christ.

Adventists teachings are predicated upon the voluminous writings of it’s founder, Ellen Gould White – and her interpretations of the bible. Catholic teachings are predicated upon the bible and the magesterium. If you are baptized into Adventism, you will be asked to accept Ellen Gould White as the “Spirit of Prophecy;” whereas if you are Catholic, you will be asked to accept the teachings of the magesterium. Which is a safer bet**:** Ellen Gould White from 1844 or the Catholic magesterium? :thankyou:

Would you rather join a cult that has it’s foundings that are based upon false prophecies starting in 1844 with Ellen G. White? Or would you rather be grounded on the rock? Pray tell? :hammering:

////////////////// TURN OFF ANTI-CULT MESSAGE /////////////////**

Thank you kindly for tuning in today. Stay turned. More to follow. News at eleven!

 

[me_again]

What follows is the creed from the SDA website that Adventists must accept at baptism. It describes the SDA belief that Ellen White is the Lord’s messenger and is “a continuing and authoritative source of truth” [sic]:

#17. The Gift of Prophecy**:** One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.
(The White Estate, n.d.)

Here is what Ellen White wrote about those who contradict the religious opinions that she presented**:**

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God’s Word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave Power and force to the past messages that have come to the [Adventist] people of God.
(White, 1910, p. 20)

Those are the teachings of the SeventhDay Adventists. Here are the sources to verify that it’s not fabricated:

References:

The White Estate (n.d.). The Seventh-day Adventist Church’s Understanding of Ellen White’s Authority. Retrieved June 19, 2010, from whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html

White, E. G. (1910). Call to the watchman. [Brochure].

Ellen G. White, Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith and a myriad of others have led countless souls into apostasy. Pray for those who are ensnared in these demonic entanglements of the devil.

 

[KathleenGee]

I truly believe these false prophets have power over people.

 

[benidict]

this is interesting. and richard i will get back to you. on your response to me. i will also use the old testament as well as the new. because there is evidence from there also, reguarding life after death. but first, did Ellen G. White ever test the spirits that were supposedly talking to her? even satan can masquerade as and angel of light. if she did, how did she, and when did she. ive never read anything of hers, where she questioned who was speaking to her. peace

 

[Javl]

I do not judge you. Only what you say.

When you judge what I say, you most certainly are judging me.

Take a look at this passage from Heb 10

Heb.10
10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Now you say this is an explanation of some covenant with the Jews alone. Javl read the passage you certainly don’t need me to translate this. It is not talking about some secret covenant with the Jews. The fact that you say it is is gibberish. Now this wouldn’t be so bad if we were talking of some periferial doctrine, but this is central to who we are as Christians. That the new covenant is God’s law written on our minds and in our hearts. And this is made possible by the sacrifice of the body of Christ. You say “we all respond to you with Christian charity”. Let me make myself really clear here. When you deny the sacrifice of Jesus and you do it in print on an international forum, How in the world can that possibly be responding in Christian charity?

Why should I accept and believe what you say? The Jehovahs Witnesses use practicaly the same arguements that you do and I know that they are definitely in error. Preach all you will. When you agree, accept, and preach the real truth then will I listen. I cannot accept the spin you put on your “interpretation” of scripture. The Catholic Church alone is THE Church founded by Christ. It alone has the full authority given it by Christ. It alone has the authority to interpret scripture. It alone has given the Bible to Christendom. Why would/should the Catholic Church preach or teach anything different than what is in scripture? Please read: http://www.thecatholictreasurechest.com/canon.htm

I’ve gone over and over this on this forum. Idon’t see the need to rechew it. It’s just a diversion anyway.

If you have I know nothing of it and have never seen your reason or explanation.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[me_again]

Why should I accept and believe what you [Richard] say? The Jehovahs Witnesses use practicaly the same arguements that you do and I know that they are definitely in error. Preach all you will. When you agree, accept, and preach the real truth then will I listen. I cannot accept the spin you put on your “interpretation” of scripture. The Catholic Church alone is THE Church founded by Christ. It alone has the full authority given it by Christ. It alone has the authority to interpret scripture. It alone has given the Bible to Christendom. Why would/should the Catholic Church preach or teach anything different than what is in scripture? Please read: http://www.thecatholictreasurechest.com/canon.htm

You will find that arguing with anyone who is brainwashed into Adventism or the Jehovah Witnesses is fruitless because they will parrot the teachings of their official organization. The JWs parrot the Watchtower and the SDAs parrot Ellen Gould White and her heretical interpretations of the bible.

In the SDA case, Ellen White wrote voluminous false doctrines from 1844 until 1915, to include the false prophecy that Jesus “secretly” entered the heavenly holy of holies when he didn’t return to the earth in 1844 – as was promised. Here is what Ellen White wrote about those who contradict her religious opinions**:**

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God’s Word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave Power and force to the past messages that have come to the [Adventist] people of God.
(White, 1910, p. 20)

Reference:

White, E. G. (1910). Call to the watchman. [Brochure].

How can a Christian attack these heretical false doctrines without attacking the victims who believe them? It’s a fine line – and I speculate that God’s people will be judged at the Judgment seat of Christ on how we handled this delicate situation. Unfortunately, when false doctrines are attacked, the victim’s who believe the false doctrines often take it personally, as if the attacks are against them. :sad_yes:

How do cult victims become ensnared in cult doctrines? Answer**:** Because the devil is just as cunning in the 21st Century as he was when he hoodwinked Eve in the Garden of Eden. Nothing has changed.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

When you judge what I say, you most certainly are judging me.

It surprises me that you can not see the difference between judging you and judging your words. When I see you denying the sacrifice of Jesus as set forth in Heb. 10 I would be remiss in my duty to you as a Christian brother if I did not warn you that I believe that the path you have chosen will lead to your destruction. I in no way judge you. That is totally under God’s authority.

Why should I accept and believe what you say?

I don’t ask you to accept what I say. I do ask you to accept what the bible says.

The Jehovahs Witnesses use practicaly the same arguements that you do and I know that they are definitely in error.

What argument would that be Javl? I have merely asked you to accept what the bible says.

Preach all you will. When you agree, accept, and preach the real truth then will I listen.

So, you don’t believe that the bible is the real truth Javl? Because that is the extent of my preaching. To get you to acknowledge the clear teaching of the bible.

I cannot accept the spin you put on your “interpretation” of scripture.

What spin would that be Javl? That Heb. 10 is talking about the sacrifice of Jesus?
What would these vs. be talking about then?
Heb.10
10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
And that this
Heb.10
15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Verse 16 being a quote of Jeremiah 31:33 is talking about the new covenant in Jesus? Which is the law written on our minds and in our hearts being made possible by the sacrifice of the body of Christ? I don’t believe that I am in any way putting a spin on this. I am merely asking you to believe what this clearly says.

The Catholic Church alone is THE Church founded by Christ. It alone has the full authority given it by Christ. It alone has the authority to interpret scripture. It alone has given the Bible to Christendom. Why would/should the Catholic Church preach or teach anything different than what is in scripture? Please read: http://www.thecatholictreasurechest.com/canon.htm

If you or your church is teaching that this is talking about a covenant exclusively with the Jews. You need to stop it. Because just by the few verses that I have quoted here you can see that again this is talking of the new covenant in Jesus and that covenant is witnessed by the Holy Spirit writing the law (The Ten Commandments) in our minds and on our hearts.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Bible is what we all read, reflect, ponder, and draw on.

And we live it out through our church as a community, and there are reasons we pray and do certain ways…some are just expressions of common unity, others are how the faith was integrated into daily life!!!

 

[Javl]

It surprises me that you can not see the difference between judging you and judging your words. When I see you denying the sacrifice of Jesus as set forth in Heb. 10 I would be remiss in my duty to you as a Christian brother if I did not warn you that I believe that the path you have chosen will lead to your destruction. I in no way judge you. That is totally under God’s authority.

I don’t ask you to accept what I say. I do ask you to accept what the bible says.

What argument would that be Javl? I have merely asked you to accept what the bible says.

So, you don’t believe that the bible is the real truth Javl? Because that is the extent of my preaching. To get you to acknowledge the clear teaching of the bible.

What spin would that be Javl? That Heb. 10 is talking about the sacrifice of Jesus?
What would these vs. be talking about then?
Heb.10
10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
And that this
Heb.10
15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Verse 16 being a quote of Jeremiah 31:33 is talking about the new covenant in Jesus? Which is the law written on our minds and in our hearts being made possible by the sacrifice of the body of Christ? I don’t believe that I am in any way putting a spin on this. I am merely asking you to believe what this clearly says.

If you or your church is teaching that this is talking about a covenant exclusively with the Jews. You need to stop it. Because just by the few verses that I have quoted here you can see that again this is talking of the new covenant in Jesus and that covenant is witnessed by the Holy Spirit writing the law (The Ten Commandments) in our minds and on our hearts.

Richard:

I do not deny anything that Jesus Christ has said or taught. Remember that the Catholic Church gave Christianity the Bible and it amazes me that anyone would think that the Catholic Church would mis-interpret and teach other than what is in Scripture.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard:

I do not deny anything that Jesus Christ has said or taught. Remember that the Catholic Church gave Christianity the Bible and it amazes me that anyone would think that the Catholic Church would mis-interpret and teach other than what is in Scripture.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Isn’t this your post Javl?

The covenant given in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is for the Jews alone. The new Law and covenant given by Jesus Christ:

The new law: Matthew 22:38-40

The new covenant: Luke 22:20

If you disagree with this then you disagree with the early Church fathers, for this is what they understood.

Here’s Heb.10

7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10By the which will **we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. **
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

**15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; **

V.16 is a quote of Jer.31:33 and it says here in Heb. that the Holy Spirit is a witness to us of the sacrifice of Jesus by writing His law in our minds and on our hearts. You deny this in your post above. So, I guess you are denying the word of God.

 

[me_again]

Adventists teach that when Jesus died on the cross, He ceased to have consciousness until His resurrection e.g. soul sleep. Richard, would you like to corroborate this for our readers?

If Jesus is God, then how can He not have consciousness?

 

[Javl]

Isn’t this your post Javl?

Here’s Heb.10

7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10By the which will **we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. **
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

**15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; **

V.16 is a quote of Jer.31:33 and it says here in Heb. that the Holy Spirit is a witness to us of the sacrifice of Jesus by writing His law in our minds and on our hearts. You deny this in your post above. So, I guess you are denying the word of God.

Talk all you want, spout all the scripture you want, I cannot accept anything you say as truth. The only truth is that taught by the only Church authorized by Christ to do so. It has taught the same truths given it by Jesus and the Apostles from the beginning. I cannot believe that it has taught “error” all these years. Sorry Richard, I know you mean well, but you are in error. That’s it.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[benidict]

Adventists teach that when Jesus died on the cross, He ceased to have consciousness until His resurrection e.g. soul sleep. Richard, would you like to corroborate this for our readers?

If Jesus is God, then how can He not have consciousness?

good point. if God was not in charge, then who was?! thats a scary thought. Peace

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Talk all you want, spout all the scripture you want, I cannot accept anything you say as truth. The only truth is that taught by the only Church authorized by Christ to do so. It has taught the same truths given it by Jesus and the Apostles from the beginning. I cannot believe that it has taught “error” all these years. Sorry Richard, I know you mean well, but you are in error. That’s it.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Ok, Javl it’s pointless to continue. Since you insist on accepting the word of your church over the word of God. I will leave you with this.

Heb.10
24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

**28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? **

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But even in your apostacy their is hope.

35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

I will pray that you set aside your rebellion and that you join yourself to your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The truth is not found in your church, but in Him.

 

[me_again]

Ok, Javl it’s pointless to continue. Since you insist on accepting the word of your church over the word of God. I will leave you with this.

Heb.10
24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

**28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? **

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But even in your apostacy their is hope.

35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

I will pray that you set aside your rebellion and that you join yourself to your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The truth is not found in your church, but in Him.

Rich,

As I read those scriptures that you posted, they testify against you. I interpreted them as exposing that you are rejecting the truth.

In Catholicism, “Sacred Tradition” is considered to be the Word of God – and you reject it. Sacred Tradition comes from apostolic times. Apostolic times is when the apostles lived on the earth (BTW, the apostles are now living in heaven). The apostles provided traditions (oral messages) that are believed to be truthful, even though it isn’t part of the written Word of God. It is the oral (traditional) Word of God. For example, the apostles didn’t write in the Word of God that Jesus wasn’t married and that He didn’t have children; they orally shared that knowledge (tradition) with the church – and it is widely accepted in Christendom, to include acceptance by SDAs. Thus, Adventists accept some Sacred Tradition from Catholicism, even if they don’t realize it.

Catholics put put faith in Sacred Tradition, as put faith in Ellen Gould White’s interpretations of the bible. Like I previously told you**:** You need to study church history, even if you disagree with it, because it will make you a well rounded theologian. Thus far, you are mired in Ellen White’s heretical interpretations.

 

[Javl]

Ok, Javl it’s pointless to continue. Since you insist on accepting the word of your church over the word of God. I will leave you with this.

Heb.10
24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

**28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? **

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But even in your apostacy their is hope.

35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

I will pray that you set aside your rebellion and that you join yourself to your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The truth is not found in your church, but in Him.

Jesus Christ is the head of my Church. I am not in rebellion. I pray to the Holy Spirit that He will open your eyes and mind to the TRUTH.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem