Seventh Day Adventists

[MarysRoses]

See, this is where I am confused. I believe most of what SDA’s believe and have seen evidence to back it up. But I don’t believe a lot of the stereotypical beliefs that people say Adventists hold. Do I believe only Adventists will be saved? No… that is not the loving and merciful God I serve. Do I believe Ellen White was a prophetess? No more than I believe I can be used to show God’s love as well as anyone else He needs. The list could go on… So what am I supposed to do? Found my own religion? I think that is stupid… I guess I am just so tired of seeing a religious battle between many denominations who focus more on proselytizing than on what really matters. I am certainly not trying to offend anyone; I’m just very confused and am thinking outloud.

You are welcome here and feel free to join the discussion. Sorry if I seemed to have jumped on you. I was Adventist all the way through my teen years and through college, to my senior year at an SDA college where I was a theology major. All that time I believed the ‘proofs’ they presented. When I did some independent research into biblical languages and history, I found their teachings could not be supported. I had to give up the career I had been working on for years so I didn’t make my decision on a whim.

If you research my statements compared to official Adventist beliefs you will find I did not exagerate them. I will post more this evening when I am not at work. Feel free to send me a private message if you want to ask questions without putting them in the open forum.

God Bless,
MarysRoses

 

[tommyberryhill]

after i found out what denomination the girls that came by were in, i always wanted to tell them i was busy cleaning my guns and waiting on orders from the Vatican when they came by, but i’m to nice and would never do that… the thoughts have come into my mind however.

the tiber swim team means i converted to the Church of Rome.

peace.

You converted, too… How’d you come to be a Catholic, and what were you before?

Tommy

 

[tommyberryhill]

I am confused. Everyone here is talking as if this religion is a girlfriend that you pick up or leave. Does it really matter what denomination you are? Does it really matter how you worship? Shouldn’t the focus be on a relationship with Jesus Christ? If the Bible is true with all it says about salvation, grace, and mercy, will God really condemn you to Hell if you love and fear Him, even though you worship on different days? “Sorry, but you worshiped on the wrong day, guess you go downstairs!” I have a hard time believing that, but hearing everyone else’s opinion has me confused. I am an SDA, and I do not condemn every other religion as you say SDA’s do. I believe the main point is to accept the gift Jesus left for us on the cross and have a relationship with Him and he originally intended when we were created. Isn’t that the point? Is there some way we could all unify as one body without giving up our ideals? I don’t know, I just hate the idea of everyone resenting each other based on a title. It’s not a title; its a relationship.

No, I never said you worship on the wrong day. What gets me is that MOST Adventists elevate the writings of Ellen G. White to a point where they will prefer what she writes to something that the Bible or History has spoken about. They also tend to believe the date 1844 is the date that Jesus would come back. I would like to remind you that Jesus never came back during that time. I would also like to remind you of all the groups that came from the Advent movement- such as Jehovah’s Witnesses, Worldwide Church of God, Seventh Day Adventists, and Branch Davidians. The Seventh Day Adventist Church likes to twist everything…

Tommy

 

[tommyberryhill]

See, this is where I am confused. I believe most of what SDA’s believe and have seen evidence to back it up. But I don’t believe a lot of the stereotypical beliefs that people say Adventists hold. Do I believe only Adventists will be saved? No… that is not the loving and merciful God I serve. Do I believe Ellen White was a prophetess? No more than I believe I can be used to show God’s love as well as anyone else He needs. The list could go on… So what am I supposed to do? Found my own religion? I think that is stupid… I guess I am just so tired of seeing a religious battle between many denominations who focus more on proselytizing than on what really matters. I am certainly not trying to offend anyone; I’m just very confused and am thinking outloud.

Well, that’s good you believe and all, and I’m sorry about my last post. If you wish to believe in what you believe in, that’s fine. But, I would remind you that you need to research History before you make up your mind. Your church was found on a false prophechy, and really didn’t come into existence until 1863. The church I go to can point to a two thousand year history and keeping learning alive during the dark ages. And the early Christians did worship on both Saturday and Sunday. But they switched the day to Sunday. Do you know why? Whatsoever you bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven and whatsoever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven. In other words, It was the Church that had the authority to speak in the name of God, and proclaim Church Laws and other things. History attests to the fact that they did just that. Just read some of the early church fathers such as Polycarp, Ignatius, Justin Martyr, etc… and see that they all worshiped on the Lord’s day- Sunday.

 

[xmydreamsfadex]

You converted, too… How’d you come to be a Catholic, and what were you before?

Tommy

i came to be catholic by the Grace of God i suppose. i remember all my life wondering what Church was the right one and reading lead me to this wonderful faith.
i was baptist and AoG growing up.

 

[adventistnomore]

I am confused. Everyone here is talking as if this religion is a girlfriend that you pick up or leave. Does it really matter what denomination you are? Does it really matter how you worship? Shouldn’t the focus be on a relationship with Jesus Christ? If the Bible is true with all it says about salvation, grace, and mercy, will God really condemn you to Hell if you love and fear Him, even though you worship on different days? “Sorry, but you worshiped on the wrong day, guess you go downstairs!” I have a hard time believing that, but hearing everyone else’s opinion has me confused. I am an SDA, and I do not condemn every other religion as you say SDA’s do. I believe the main point is to accept the gift Jesus left for us on the cross and have a relationship with Him and he originally intended when we were created. Isn’t that the point? Is there some way we could all unify as one body without giving up our ideals? I don’t know, I just hate the idea of everyone resenting each other based on a title. It’s not a title; its a relationship.

I admire your commitment and openness to Christianity unity; most Adventists lack it. But truth is still important; if not, St. Paul wouldn’t have condemned “the party of the circumcision,” and St. John wouldn’t have had to strive against the gnostics. But let’s keep talking!

 

[djconklin]

ists accept Ellen White (the author of the Great Controversy) as an inspired writer who’s writings are authoritative for doctrine.

The SDA church does NOT teach that EGW is “authoritative for doctrine.” That is a common misnomer. EGW constantly pointed to the Bible for our beliefs, not to her.

 

[MarysRoses]

The SDA church does NOT teach that EGW is “authoritative for doctrine.” That is a common misnomer. EGW constantly pointed to the Bible for our beliefs, not to her.

From the OFFICIAL list of FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS listed on the OFFICIAL website of the Seventh-day Adventist Church:

"One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, **her writings are a continuing and *authoritative *source of truth **which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested " (emphasis mine)

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

So, they are an AUTHORITATIVE source of TRUTH and provide INSTRUCTION and CORRECTION but aren’t authoritative doctrine? Again, this is the official list of SDA fundamental beliefs on their own website.

Regardless of whether or not EGW and her followers believe her teachings are supported by the bible, it is her interpretations that are authoritative for the SDA church.

MarysRoses

 

[KJK80]

The SDA church does NOT teach that EGW is “authoritative for doctrine.” That is a common misnomer. EGW constantly pointed to the Bible for our beliefs, not to her.

That’s a rather circular argument…

1. Is it clear in the Bible that Jesus did not drink of the wine vinegar He was offered in Matthew 27:48
2. Is it clear in the Bible that Mary turned away from Jesus at the time of His death?

These are just two small places where personal agenda is mixed with truth to support a denominational belief that isn’t Scriptural (at least not without adding to it).

So while EGW does claim to point to the Bible, there’s a whole lot of agenda mixed in to support a system of beliefs that are not clearly outlined in the Bible.

The sanctuary doctrine is a prime example of this…

Sure you can water down Adventism to the point where you can say none of this matters… but that’s not the point. What would a conservative Adventist believe based on the foundation of the Church? That’s what matters here… As that is how I view the Catholic church, all other’s should be viewed in the same manner.

 

[djconklin]

From the OFFICIAL list of FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS listed on the OFFICIAL website of the Seventh-day Adventist Church:

"One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, **her writings are a continuing and *authoritative ***source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested " (emphasis mine)

adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

So, they are an AUTHORITATIVE source of TRUTH and provide INSTRUCTION and CORRECTION but aren’t authoritative doctrine? Again, this is the official list of SDA fundamental beliefs on their own website.

Regardless of whether or not EGW and her followers believe her teachings are supported by the bible, it is her interpretations that are authoritative for the SDA church.

MarysRoses

In the last phrase you finally get it partially right–and yet wrong too if you assume that means for doctrine. All SDA doctrines are based solely on the Bible, not EGW. It is NOT her interpretations of the Bible–for instance, in my study of Col. 2:16-17 which I spent three years and am still working on (sometimes!) I never ever consulted EGW to find out what she said about it. Her works are more homeletical, not exegetical.

 

[djconklin]

1. Is it clear in the Bible that Jesus did not drink of the wine vinegar He was offered in Matthew 27:48

I never use just one text to base something on. Wghat do the other Gospel accounts say?

1. Is it clear in the Bible that Mary turned away from Jesus at the time of His death?

Who said that Mary did turn away from Jesus? What do you mean by “turn away”?

Boiled down: let’s say that EGW actually said something about each of the above–does that make what she said “authoritative”? Nope.

 

[KJK80]

Boiled down: let’s say that EGW actually said something about each of the above–does that make what she said “authoritative”? Nope.

The Adventist church itself says that her writings are an authoritative source. I suppose you do not believe with the Adventist church…

 

[djconklin]

Define “authoritative.”

Who made the points that you posted previously? If not EGW then why bring them up? If EGW did make sometrhing of those why didn’t you post what she said ab’t them?

 

[KJK80]

Define “authoritative.”

Who made the points that you posted previously? If not EGW then why bring them up? If EGW did make sometrhing of those why didn’t you post what she said ab’t them?

I don’t need to define it. The Adventist church used that word, not me.

EGW does state thosethings. There’s nothing more to say about it, other than to question why she felt the need to say them at all, unless it was merely an attempt to refute the Catholic church.

 

[djconklin]

Just because some people used the word and got it into the beliefs doesn’t mean that you and they mean the same thing. So, we are back to square one. What do you mean by the term “authoritative”?

EGW does state thosethings.

Where? And we’re still stuck with the original questions I asked.

unless it was merely an attempt to refute the Catholic church.

I’m not into that sort of thing so theer is no need to even say it to begin with. Unless it is a ploy to avoid answering the questions ab’t the stuff you brought up.

 

[KJK80]

You’re really good at trying to get me to go in circles.

“AUTHORITATIVE” is used by the Adventist church. I can only assume they mean a literal dictionary term.

Having or arising from authority; official: an authoritative decree; authoritative sources.​

Of acknowledged accuracy or excellence; highly reliable: an authoritative account of the revolution.​

Wielding authority; commanding: the captain’s authoritative manner​

So there’s my definition.

You’re so knowledgeable about EGW, you should know exactly where she says them and why.

I don’t really care what you’re “into”… EGW made attempt to refute the Catholic church’s teaching in many places.

Jesus refusing the wine vinegar can easily be seen as a way to back up the Adventist teaching of total abstinence from alcohol.

Mary turning away from Jesus at the time of His death is in complete opposition of the Catholic church’s Marian doctrines…

It’s really quite simple… Would you not agree? Or do you cherry pick what you want to believe of even the Adventist church?

 

[KJK80]

Just to keep you happy… here you go:

Jesus thirsted in His agony, and they gave Him vinegar and gall to drink; but when He tasted it, He refused it.

Early Writings Page 177

Mary loved her Lord. He had forgiven her sins, which were many, and had raised from the dead her much-loved brother, and she felt that nothing was too dear to bestow upon Jesus.

Early Writings Page 165

There’s more on Mary…

 

[KJK80]

She saw His hands stretched upon the cross; the hammer and the nails were brought, and as the spikes were driven through the tender flesh, the heart-stricken disciples bore away from the cruel scene the fainting form of the mother of Jesus.

Desire of Ages Page 744

 

[KJK80]

On an unrelated subject…

The Scriptural ordinance of the Lord’s Supper had been supplanted by the idolatrous sacrifice of the mass. Papal priests pretended, by their senseless mummery, to convert the simple bread and wine into the actual “body and blood of Christ.”

With blasphemous presumption, they openly claimed the power of creating God, the Creator of all things. Christians were required, on pain of death, to avow their faith in this horrible, Heaven-insulting heresy. Multitudes who refused were given to the flames.

The Great Controversy Page 59

 

[djconklin]

You’re really good at trying to get me to go in circles.

In fact, what I have been doing is getting you to do is to answer a simple question.

I can only assume they mean a literal dictionary term.

You gave three from an unknown source. Which source and which one is being applied?

Mary turning away from Jesus at the time of His death is in complete opposition of the Catholic church’s Marian doctrines.

What does the Bible say?

Jesus thirsted in His agony, and they gave Him vinegar and gall to drink; but when He tasted it, He refused it.

Early Writings Page 177

The Bible says: Matthew 27:34 “They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.”

So, EGW agrees with the Bible.

Mary loved her Lord. He had forgiven her sins, which were many, and had raised from the dead her much-loved brother, and she felt that nothing was too dear to bestow upon Jesus.

Early Writings Page 165

There’s more on Mary.

In case you didn’t know it that Mary was NOT the mother of Jesus; where is the evidence for the claim that Mary “turned away” from Jesus?

She saw His hands stretched upon the cross; the hammer and the nails were brought, and as the spikes were driven through the tender flesh, the heart-stricken disciples bore away from the cruel scene the fainting form of the mother of Jesus.

Desire of Ages Page 744

When the disciples, not Mary, bear her away “from the cruel scene”?