Seventh day adventists??

[phummel]

Hello jpaul. thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut…
exactly!—>

“Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” Colossians 2:16-17

why dont people understand this?? it just seems unbelievable… can anyone help me out here? with an adventist or protestant point of view??

blessings…

Hi Brooke,

I’m the guy who just adopted this For me it’s been a blessing - spending a day with God and putting him first. It’s like a date. Honestly, I wrestled over Friday-Saturday sundown versus Sunday for a little bit. When I looked closer at my heart, I saw that I was rebelling against giving to God that much time and denying myself secular pleasures like college football. It’s certainly not a chore anymore - it’s my favorite part of the week.

Now the SDA perspective:

• Sabbath was institution created by God in Genesis.
• It was deemed important enough for us to “remember the Sabbath”, so it ended up in the Ten Commandments - Exodos and Deuteronomy. The differences between the wording in both is worth noting.
• The verse you recited from KJV, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days”. We interpret sabbath days as meaning Jewish holidays, not the Sabbath, seventh day of the week.

Brooke, I buy into this explanation. I am blessed to have this time - many folks would have trouble rearranging their schedule and lives around this. No-one who looks at this as a rule, law, or commandment should even bother with this. We were not made for the Sabbath, the Sabbath was made for us. If you are a Sunday keeper and know this joy, God be praised!

Hope that helps.
-paul

 

[phummel]

yes, i understand everything you’re saying and i totally agree of course. but what i dont come to understand, though, is how can those that follow the SDA church do so? i find it hard to believe how they can believe that their church is the right one. i know everybody thinks that they’re in the real church of Jesus our savior but if you really pay attention to the scripture and you understand it and you dont “skip” or “ignore” anything in it, shouldnt you figure out that it is in fact the catholic church that was founded by our Father in heaven, through his son?

Hello,
I would say most people who are Adventist are born into it. Right? Makes sense to stay with your kin, what you know, what you are comfortable with.

Other churches can also state that they have apostolic succession too - Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, who else?

I am truly being ignorant here, not being a smart-alloc - besides Matthew 16:18-19, what other references are there to Christ establishing His church?
Now, I’m being a smart-alloc - is there anything that says go establish a theocracy and succession of power or is this merely a blessing bestowed upon Peter?

Anyway, for me it’s about having Christian fellowship. Not which church is right. SDA identifies itself as the remnant church mentioned in Revelation. I am uncomfortable with any kind of exclusivity like this.

God bless,
paul

 

[phummel]

hi there…
why is it that you are now attending an SDA church? what made you switch? and where did you attend prior to this?? what did you dissagree with the catholic church? … since you said you were raised roman catholic???
would love to hear from you!!

Hi Brooke,

I initially got hooked into SDA because of the culture - pacifism, vegetarian, freedom loving. It just fit my lifestyle so well. I struggle mightily with the doctrines though. I like the idea of a believers baptism (kinda like baptism + confirmation) but don’t think I will ever get baptized as an Adventist because of the doctrines. My note to Patrick summarizes many of the good things that keep me there. Fellowship is so important.

Prior to SDA, I was going to a Baptist church - I live in the southern US; no shortage of Baptists here. It just didn’t fill me up. 2 hours on Sunday wasn’t enough. I wasn’t feeling the commitment and there was no culture of doing works.

RC has wonderful qualities too. I forgot to mention to Patrick that I greatly respect the church’s firm stand against abortion. I am a heretic - my faith is like a quilt and different denominations provide patches which I stitch together.

I never cared for the mechanical/ceremonial aspects of Mass. The congregations seem too robotic. My mom was raised RC in the 1950s - the stories of sadistic nuns are not pleasant. Somehow, I think too many people are trying to obedient and not loving. A tree can be known by the fruit it bares.
Maybe a more serious person would dissect the RC doctrine more and then present some challenges.

I know I’m throwing stones from a glass house. The SDA church has some folks who are very legalistic and obedient too. No doubt, my character needs some work by the Holy Spirit. Time to pray.

Thanks for starting a conversation.

God Bless You,
paul

 

[Brooke]

Hi Brooke,

I’m the guy who just adopted this For me it’s been a blessing - spending a day with God and putting him first. It’s like a date. Honestly, I wrestled over Friday-Saturday sundown versus Sunday for a little bit. When I looked closer at my heart, I saw that I was rebelling against giving to God that much time and denying myself secular pleasures like college football. It’s certainly not a chore anymore - it’s my favorite part of the week.

Now the SDA perspective:

• Sabbath was institution created by God in Genesis.
• It was deemed important enough for us to “remember the Sabbath”, so it ended up in the Ten Commandments - Exodos and Deuteronomy. The differences between the wording in both is worth noting.
• The verse you recited from KJV, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days”. We interpret sabbath days as meaning Jewish holidays, not the Sabbath, seventh day of the week.

Brooke, I buy into this explanation. I am blessed to have this time - many folks would have trouble rearranging their schedule and lives around this. No-one who looks at this as a rule, law, or commandment should even bother with this. We were not made for the Sabbath, the Sabbath was made for us. If you are a Sunday keeper and know this joy, God be praised!

Hope that helps.
-paul

hey paul,
i see what you mean but… i dont know… i mean

ok so

*God created the world in 6 days and ‘rested’ on the 7th.
*and Sabbatarians argue – sinceGod obviously did not need to rest – was setting example for man.
*HOWEVER-- the word “Sabbath” is not found in Genesis and nothing is said about Adam and Eve resting. Actually, God provided everything for Adam and Eve’s happiness and there was no work for them to do. Work only entered the world as part of the SIN.
*Before the SIN, Adam and Eve were in God’s Perpetual rest and fellowship. So observance of the Sabbath would have been superflous.

so, how does it make sense that God would create the ‘sabbath’ to show that, that indeed was the day for resting and worshiping him, if sin and work didnt exist until after the apple was bitten. And if God ‘rested’ on the 7th day BEFORE the apple was bitten??

also…

*In various paragraphs of Matthew, the Lord restates all of the decalogue except for one commandment:

*Matthew 19:18-19, – “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, " ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’"

*Matthew 4:10, – " Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

*Matthew 5:34-35, – " But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King."

this equals 9… not 10? and the commandment Jesus didn’t restate? Keep Sabbath holy…

And…

it seems only reasonable that it refers to not keeping the Sabbath holy since it atctually says ‘Sabbath’ in the scripture…

blessings…

 

[SonofMonica]

1. against our “praising” of the virgin mary and the saints. (which we DONT. we do not praise. this is a misunderstanding… )

For the record, we do praise the Virgin Mary and the saints. Just like we praise our children for their accomplishments or our mother or father for their virtues. We do not worship the Virgin Mary and the saints as God. Singing songs that praise Mary is no different than singing happy birthday to your friend or singing songs about America. You can praise something or someone without worshiping them.

 

[phummel]

so, how does it make sense that God would create the ‘sabbath’ to show that, that indeed was the day for resting and worshiping him, if sin and work didnt exist until after the apple was bitten. And if God ‘rested’ on the 7th day BEFORE the apple was bitten??

Interesting, I never thought of work not existing before sin. I disagree based on Genesis 1:28:
Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.”

I think you make a strong argument in your review of Matthew.

You have to realize I read through the Bible trying to find wisdom and guidance from God. What is God saying to the Israelites, what is God saying to His disciples, what is God saying to the Gentiles, what is God saying to us? Is Israel providing testimony to the rest of the world? Was the message for a particular time or audience? What is the context?
I’m not trying to be an obedient slave, but rather I’m trying to find wisdom that puts me in harmony with His universe. As a vegetarian, I also find wisdom in Leviticus.
I wouldn’t expect everyone to be on the same page at the same time or even in a lifetime. I’m sure you have knowledge, blessings, and wisdom of things that are missing from my life.

Let’s rejoice that we have Christ in our lives. Let’s pray that the Holy Spirit flows through us and changes our lives.

 

[phummel]

with all of this information and even more that can be found throughtout the bible,… why dont people come to understand that PETER is ROCK and Jesus founded his church, his catholic church, ON him?

Hello Brooke,

catholicity.elcore.net/SimonIsTheRock.html
Some Protestants, especially those of a more anti-Catholic bent, try to make hay out of the distinction between the Greek words petros and petra in the original written version of Matthew 16:18. Petros, they say, means “stone” or “piece of rock” or, even merely “pebble”; petra, on the other hand, they say means “large rock” or “boulder”. So, they conclude, the two words cannot refer to the same person or thing.
Moreover, they say (quite correctly) that petros is masculine and petra is feminine;
so, they conclude, the male Peter could not have been the referent of the feminine term.
And, therefore, Simon could not have been the Rock.

In the OT, God is referred to as Rock.

• “There is none Holy like The Lord, there is none besides Thee; there is no Rock like our God.” (1 Samuel 2:2 RSV)
• “my God, my Rock, in Whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge, my Savior; Thou savest me from violence.” (2 Samuel 22:3 RSV)
• “To Thee, O Lord, I call; my Rock” (Psalm 28:1 RSV)
• “Thou art my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.” (Psalm 89:26 RSV)
• "O come, let us sing to The Lord; let us make a joyful noise to the Rock of our salvation! " (Psalm 95:1 RSV)

1 Corithians 10:4 (KJV)
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

In Sabbath school we covered this. The conclusion presented was that Peter was the little pebbles and that Christ was the large rock.

Personally, I think Christ was bestowing a special blessing on Peter. Put me in a room w/SDAs and all of sudden I put on my RC hat

However, as I previously asked, does this establish a theocracy and succession of power or did Christ have some other picture of what His church body looked like?

 

[Middleman]

Is it true that the SDA believe in a soul-sleep for the dead? I have heard that they do not believe individuals will be resurrected until the Rapture, but instead be in a state of soul-sleep. What exactly is the SDA belief regarding Heaven, Hell, and the afterlife?

 

[phummel]

Is it true that the SDA believe in a soul-sleep for the dead? I have heard that they do not believe individuals will be resurrected until the Rapture, but instead be in a state of soul-sleep. What exactly is the SDA belief regarding Heaven, Hell, and the afterlife?

Hello Middleman,

Yes, we believe in soul sleep. Basically, we believe when people die, they are dead, and then when Christ returns, we are resurrected. We don’t believe in an immortal soul. It is through our resurrection, that we are given everlasting life. We don’t believe in an eternal torment of Hell. Rather we believe the wicked will be destroyed completely by Hell fire.

Wikipedia does a nice job of summarizing the proof texts we use for soul sleep:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_sleep

Check-out Fundamental Beliefs 25-28 for more details on Heaven, Hell, and afterlife:
adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

For me it starts with a loving picture of our Father. I can’t believe that He would sadistic and demand eternal torment. What an awful thing to contemplate the torment of a lost loved one.

Hope that helps,
paul

 

[happilycatholic]

Hello Middleman,

Yes, we believe in soul sleep. Basically, we believe when people die, they are dead, and then when Christ returns, we are resurrected. We don’t believe in an immortal soul. It is through our resurrection, that we are given everlasting life. We don’t believe in an eternal torment of Hell. Rather we believe the wicked will be destroyed completely by Hell fire.

Wikipedia does a nice job of summarizing the proof texts we use for soul sleep:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_sleep

Check-out Fundamental Beliefs 25-28 for more details on Heaven, Hell, and afterlife:
adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

For me it starts with a loving picture of our Father. I can’t believe that He would sadistic and demand eternal torment. What an awful thing to contemplate the torment of a lost loved one.

Hope that helps,
paul

Hi phummel:

So when the Bible says we are made in the image of our Creator, it means the Creator (as the Holy Spirit) is not infinite? Our souls are not infinite, they are finite? That would be contradictory to being made in the image of the Holy Spirit.

Edit:

Before you respond, please consider the word “eternal” which is synonomous with the word “immortal” in definition:

Eternal; everlasting; never-ending; ceaseless; perpetual; continual; enduring; endless; imperishable; incorruptible; deathless; undying.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

hello pat,
i was wondering… wow! 30 year adventist?? thats quite a long time… and i would love to know what is it that made you switch? who convinced you? how? what was the primary reason you realized you wanted to be a catholic?

cant wait for your response…

Hi Brooke! You already provided my short answer in one of your other posts on here…it is highlighted in red below.

i know everybody thinks that they’re in the real church of Jesus our savior but if you really pay attention to the scripture and you understand it and you dont “skip” or “ignore” anything in it, shouldnt you figure out that it is in fact the catholic church that was founded by our Father in heaven, through his son?

I have posted, at ponderous length, in other threads on this forum many of the reasons as to why I joined the Catholic Church…but it would take too much time to find them, so I will try to be concise (pray for me:blush and hit the main reasons.

Like most protestants, I held great doubts about The Eucharist, and the real presence of Jesus Christ in The Eucharist. Personally, I my doubt was more of a repulsion at the idea of “a man” holding up a “piece of bread” and calling it Jesus. The few times I attended Mass with my family, I would hold my tongue, for the most part, but I would sit there and basically berate and curst the priest for the “blasphemy” I believed he was performing. My repulsion grew to anger, my anger grew to hate, and we all know how and where hate grows.

But then, I happened to be at a Mass where the priest gave a homily on The Eucharist. I told my wife when we left that if I were ever to believe the Eucharist it would be based on what that priest taught during his homily. Beginning to consider that I might be wrong in what I believed about The Eucharist, I began to consider that there might be something to it. Over the next two years I began to feel that if I were to be honest in my hatred of the Eucharist, I should at least make the attempt to understand it and not go by what I was taught and heard from other protestants. So after four or five years I happened to be at our local Catholic Book Store, and asked the lady working there if she had any books that would explain the Eucharist to a protestant. She thought I was Catholic and asked me if I thought my friend would like a little book or a big book. I told her it was for me and I would like the biggest book you’ve got. She gave me “The Hidden Manna: A Theology of the Eucharist” by Father James O’Conner.

I read it and was amazed at the early Church leader’s writings talking about the bread and wine actually be Jesus. This was the first time I had ever really read any of the early Church writings…and we’re talking 70-200AD. Fr. O’Conner then laid out the various protestant views of communion, very accurately I might add, so I kept reading, and it made sense. He dealt with adoration of The Blessed Sacrament and various issues with Mary, The Blessed Mother, which at that time I could just not comprehend or come to grips with. But from that moment on I believed The Eucharist.

Two years later, God’s providence led me to much prayer…much much prayer…and more study. I met with the priest whose homily I first heard that inspired me to find the Truth. I knew I was a Catholic in my heart. That was the spring of 2008. Easter had just passed. I read the entire Catechism of The Catholic Church, second edition, to make sure there was nothing in the official teaching of The Church that I disagreed with. There was nothing. Of course I did not understand some things, such as our relationship with Our Blessed Mother, but I accepted those things I did not understand on faith, and figured I have the rest of my life to study those things. In the Fall I entered a R.C.I.A. class, and at Easter Vigil this year, 2009, I was confirmed and received Jesus in the Eucharist for the first time. It was such a blessing to be so fully united with Jesus…it brings tears to my eyes now as I think of God’s mercy on me, a sinner, to lead me to this Glorious Truth in my lifetime.

One day during the summer of 2008 I was praying, and I felt this overwhelming impression that came into my mind to pray The Rosary. I went downstairs and asked my wife to teach me how to pray The Rosary. Once she recovered from passing out and got off the floor, she taught me and I have been praying it just about daily ever since.

I have spent much time in Eucharistic Adoration, and my understanding of, and relationship with, Our Blessed Mother keeps growing and is such a blessing. These things cannot be explained, but to those who share this experience, well, they understand. All I can say is that it is more intimate than the kiss shared with your spouse, and more real than the Sun shining brightly at mid day on a clear summer day.

All in all, that journey took about 30 years, with the past 14 years being my time of conversion. This is what I have desired from the time that I first gave my heart to Jesus. God is good and His mercy endures forever!

God bless all!!!

 

[phummel]

Hi phummel:

So when the Bible says we are made in the image of our Creator, it means the Creator (as the Holy Spirit) is not infinite? Our souls are not infinite, they are finite? That would be contradictory to being made in the image of the Holy Spirit.

Edit:
Before you respond, please consider the word “eternal” which is synonomous with the word “immortal” in definition:
Eternal; everlasting; never-ending; ceaseless; perpetual; continual; enduring; endless; imperishable; incorruptible; deathless; undying.

Hello, you gave me a nice out. I don’t think “made in the image” implies that we have all the attributes of our supreme Father. An image tends to be lessor copy/impression of the original. I don’t think you can look at an image an infer all the attributes of the original.

Curious, why did you splat the synonyms of immortal? Is that a common SDA defense to play with those words?

 

[happilycatholic]

Hello, you gave me a nice out. I don’t think “made in the image” implies that we have all the attributes of our supreme Father. An image tends to be lessor copy/impression of the original. I don’t think you can look at an image an infer all the attributes of the original.

What a curious way to respond. Thank you for stating the obvious. I guess one could pick which attributes one believes he has. As far as I know, all Christians believe their soul is an attribute of the Creator. But again, that’s your choice.

**Edit: What does “made in God’s image” mean to you?

Curious, why did you splat the synonyms of immortal? Is that a common SDA defense to play with those words?

I simply gave you the word that Scripture uses. Why is that in question? Is God eternal or not? Does Scripture tell us that our souls will suffer eternal death?

Matt. 25:46 - Jesus says, “they will go away into eternal punishment”

Rev 14: 11. All the worshippers of the Beast will be tormented forever. “The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest, day and night…”.

 

[happilycatholic]

Is that a common SDA defense to play with those words?

phummel: Please stay with me on this. I am not trying to “play”. I have a true curiosity regarding how SDA’s arrive at some of their fundemental beliefs. Soul sleep is one of those.

Everything I post is literal. I don’t to play or intentionally be sarcastic.

Edit:

Something for consideration: We are made in God’s image. It is noteworthy that satan does not have a soul…

 

[Middleman]

Hello Middleman,

Yes, we believe in soul sleep. Basically, we believe when people die, they are dead, and then when Christ returns, we are resurrected. We don’t believe in an immortal soul. It is through our resurrection, that we are given everlasting life. We don’t believe in an eternal torment of Hell. Rather we believe the wicked will be destroyed completely by Hell fire.

Wikipedia does a nice job of summarizing the proof texts we use for soul sleep:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_sleep

Check-out Fundamental Beliefs 25-28 for more details on Heaven, Hell, and afterlife:
adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

For me it starts with a loving picture of our Father. I can’t believe that He would sadistic and demand eternal torment. What an awful thing to contemplate the torment of a lost loved one.

Hope that helps,
paul

These beliefs sound substantially different than most Christian denominations. Are there any other Christian groups that share these beliefs?

I have to agree with your belief on Hell, I find the concept of eternal damnation difficult to swallow.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Hi Paul,

I am in no way questioning the motives of your heart or conscience regarding why you keep Saturday…you must do what you believe is right and correct. I would also like to add that if you are basing your decsions on The Bible, I have posed some questions below that indicate that Adventist beliefs are not consistent with what is written in the Bible. I do like that you are willing to share so openly and lovingly!

Hi Brooke,

I’m the guy who just adopted this For me it’s been a blessing - spending a day with God and putting him first. It’s like a date. Honestly, I wrestled over Friday-Saturday sundown versus Sunday for a little bit. When I looked closer at my heart, I saw that I was rebelling against giving to God that much time and denying myself secular pleasures like college football. It’s certainly not a chore anymore - it’s my favorite part of the week.

Now the SDA perspective:

• Sabbath was institution created by God in Genesis.

If you read the creation account in Genesis no where does God command or even request that Adam and Eve observe the Sabbath.

It is interesting to note that each of the six days before the seventh day are designated by the seperation of evening and morning constituting a day. There is no such designation on the seventh day. I have thoughts on why this is and if you are interested I would be glad to share them with you.

Nowhere in the Bible, for the next 10 or so generations of people is there any mention of the sabbath or God commanding or requesting anyone to keep the sabbath. It first show up during the time of Moses when the Hebrew slaves were being freed from Egypt.

• It was deemed important enough for us to “remember the Sabbath”, so it ended up in the Ten Commandments - Exodos and Deuteronomy. The differences between the wording in both is worth noting.

Here is the Sabbath commandment in Deuteronomy 5:12 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

There is a very interesting distinction made here regarding the sabbath and what is to be remembered.

In this version of the 10 commandments, the Sabbath day is to be observed, not remembered. Verse 15 gives the reason as to why God wanted the Hebrews to observe the Sabbath. It was because they were slaves in Egypt and the Lord God brought the out of slavery. In this commandment regarding the Sabbath, God commands them to remember that they were slaves whom He delieverd to freedom.

We today most certainly were not, are not, and most likely never will be slaves in Egypt. We all today, however, are or were, or could be in the future, slaves to sin and death. It is God once again who delivers us through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But Jesus does not command, anywhere in the New Testament, for us to observe or remember the sabbath because of this delieverance from sin and death. He does command us to remember Him and His sacrifice in the Lord’s Supper, which proclaims His sacrifice for us until He returns again.

(con’t)

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

(con’t) 2

Hello,
I would say most people who are Adventist are born into it. Right? Makes sense to stay with your kin, what you know, what you are comfortable with.

I don’t know the statistics for sure, but my guess is, based on their agressive evangelization, that most Adventists might be converts. I could be wrong.

I am truly being ignorant here, not being a smart-alloc - besides Matthew 16:18-19, what other references are there to Christ establishing His church?
Now, I’m being a smart-alloc - is there anything that says go establish a theocracy and succession of power or is this merely a blessing bestowed upon Peter?

Continuing with the establishment of The Church based on the words rock and stone:

Matt.:42Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures:
" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone[a];
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’

1 Pet. 2:4As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

RC has wonderful qualities too. I forgot to mention to Patrick that I greatly respect the church’s firm stand against abortion.

The Adventist Church policy on abortion is not firm at all in favor of life. It cannot be considered pro-life at all. This is what first caused me to begin to question the consistency of Adventist teaching.

Interesting, I never thought of work not existing before sin. I disagree based on Genesis 1:28:
Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.”

Yes they did work before sin entered the world…their work was rasing a family, tending the garden, and caring for the creation God gave to them. They did this every day. And as they did this every day, God was there with them in their midst. They were in paradise, living face to face with God for eternity. Each and every day they shared with God in His rest that declared all of His creation Good! Their work for eternity was sharing in God’s Rest!!! Sin changed the nature of work to anything but rest. Jesus restores us to God’s Rest!! Hebrews 3&4

Let’s rejoice that we have Christ in our lives. Let’s pray that the Holy Spirit flows through us and changes our lives.

Amen Paul! I join you in that prayer!

God bless all!!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

These beliefs sound substantially different than most Christian denominations. Are there any other Christian groups that share these beliefs?

I have to agree with your belief on Hell, I find the concept of eternal damnation difficult to swallow.

Hi Middleman,

Is that concept harder to swallow than the concept that God emptied Himself of His eternal glory and took on the form of a man, to be abused, tortured, and crucifided on a cross for us? And then calls us to take up a cross and follow Him?

God bless all!!!

 

[phummel]

I simply gave you the word that Scripture uses. Why is that in question? Is God eternal or not? Does Scripture tell us that our souls will suffer eternal death?

Matt. 25:46 - Jesus says, “they will go away into eternal punishment”

Rev 14: 11. All the worshippers of the Beast will be tormented forever. “The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest, day and night…”.

Hello happilycatholic,

Thanks for the encouragement.
Yes, I believe our soul is an attribute of the Creator and we have a soul too.
I believe God has an immortal soul but we do not. Similar to God being omnipresent, omnipotence, omniscient, infinite, etc - does not make us so.

For me, made in God’s image means we both seek love, fellowship, relationships.
Good question - I never dwelled on this much.

We dispute the translation of Matt 25:46 - everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 is “kolasin aionion”. The argument is with the word “aion”, which in Greek literature means “an indeterminate period of time”. This is primarily why I asked you about those synonyms because I sorta remember this word puzzle…
The other point made to me in my church is that the results and effects are everlasting not the punishment itself.

 

[phummel]

These beliefs sound substantially different than most Christian denominations. Are there any other Christian groups that share these beliefs?

I have to agree with your belief on Hell, I find the concept of eternal damnation difficult to swallow.

Off hand the only other denomination I can think of is Jehovah’s Witness - The 2 churches have a close origins but I rather like how SDA has evolved. I know, such fine company I’m not even sure JW is classified as Christian - they reject the trinity and I’m not sure they accept the divinity of Jesus. (I could be wrong)