Seventh Day Adventists

[tqualey]

Hi, Paul,

I am sorry you have not been an active Catholic - that probably is at the heart of your wanting to leave.

Now, let me point something out - merely finding something about eating … like eating a scroll - is not going to get you up to speed. Scrolls are normally considered nourishment. Bread, however, is universally thought as nourishment - and the mana enabled the Hebrews to survive their wanderings. Christ uses the mana example to show how God cared for His People - and Christ then tells us that His Flesh will be used to care for His People. While some may have to swallow hard to get a chewed up scroll down - the very idea of eating someone’s flesh was repulsive to the Jews that Christ spoke to - and Christ knew how they … and we … will respond. In the last analysis, this is the Divine Plan established by God for our salvation. He spells this out in John 6, and the Synoptics all agree that Christ took bread, blessed and broke it and told His Apostles this was His Body - NOT this is a symbol, or a metaphor or a memory of my Body. I think the plain words of Christ are there for all to see who want to see.

Personally, I think you have set an impossible task for yourself… if you are dealing with doctrine between SDA and the CC. Now, if you are talking about being friendsly with family members who do not agree with you - well… I think you have already demonstated your capacity for this on CAF. So, this should be a doable deed.

Hi Tom,
On Ezekiel and Jeremiah I just wanted to find some verses that used the “eating” metaphor - eating words, knowledge, truth.

On why I am on Catholic forums, I’m converting to SDA and was raised RC but haven’t been Catholic for 20 years or so. I still have many friends and family in the RC church. I am trying to bridge those worlds a bit. I’m standing up for my little SDA church too, because that is who I am. Since being SDA can mean a wide variety of things, I want to show it is not a one size fits all and we all don’t live in 1844 and bash Catholics.

On the flip side, I try to share some of the blessings and wisdom of the RC church with my SDA brothers and sisters.

All and all, I find encouragement in meeting nice Christians like yourself.

-paul

It is difficult for a group to separate itself from its roots - and from the deeply held beliefs of its founder. E.G.While had her own agenda and bridging any gap with the CC and its teachings was not part of her plan. (At least as I undestand it.) While you may try to stick to what you think is proper - just take a look at the history of the founder of SDA - these positiions are not easily reconciled. And then you may face not being accepted by either group - you can not espouse SDA beliefs as a Catholic and you can not espouse Catholic beliefs as SDA member.

God bless

 

[katgee]

THanks to those who have contributed to this thread with excellent references.

Our Mass goes back to ancient times…

Paul, the first head of Jerusalem was St. James, the Lesser, and was with Jesus for 3 and a half years…you should study some Catholic sources of early Christian practices, such as the liturgy of St. James in Jerusalem, return to Mass and see how much of hte perspective is the same as then…being an institution, a bureaucracy of outward human structure is not bad.

Our Sabbath worship consists primarily in offering acceptable and proper sacrifice to God, Our Heavenly Father. None of us can meet the Father as acceptable and proper, but only the Lamb of God, Christ Crucified. It is He who is the focus of our worship, True God and True Man, Who has died for us, and we are then offered through Him to the Father.

The Mass is the Mass, irregardless of the merits or failings of our priests, as the focus is on Christ Himself Who is beyond and us and sustains the church. Everything else does not matter.

The Catholic Church cannot be destroyed, even if you kill the people or destoy all the buildings and property, because beyond the outward appearance, it is Jesus Christ Himself Who lives.

I wouldn’t trust anyone using Sola Scriptura…read about Martin Luther, and where he was and what he was doing when he had that great inspiration to reform the church and fight the bureaucracy…

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Katgee,

THanks to those who have contributed to this thread with excellent references.

Our Mass goes back to ancient times…

Paul, the first head of Jerusalem was St. James, the Lesser, and was with Jesus for 3 and a half years…you should study some Catholic sources of early Christian practices, such as the liturgy of St. James in Jerusalem, return to Mass and see how much of hte perspective is the same as then…being an institution, a bureaucracy of outward human structure is not bad.

Our Sabbath worship consists primarily in offering acceptable and proper sacrifice to God, Our Heavenly Father. None of us can meet the Father as acceptable and proper, but only the Lamb of God, Christ Crucified. It is He who is the focus of our worship, True God and True Man, Who has died for us, and we are then offered through Him to the Father.

The Mass is the Mass, irregardless of the merits or failings of our priests, as the focus is on Christ Himself Who is beyond and us and sustains the church. Everything else does not matter.

The Catholic Church cannot be destroyed, even if you kill the people or destoy all the buildings and property, because beyond the outward appearance, it is Jesus Christ Himself Who lives.

I wouldn’t trust anyone using Sola Scriptura…read about Martin Luther, and where he was and what he was doing when he had that great inspiration to reform the church and fight the bureaucracy…

Do you have a link you can share on this aspect of Luther’s life?

God bless

 

[katgee]

No I do not.

I took a class on ecumenism by a bishop who attended the Vatican II on ecumenism.

He spoke to us of the psychology of Martin Luther, a very conscientious, and a highly scrupulous person. However, he was valid in regards to the corruption – in some parts of the church, particularly Italy at that time.

An acquaintance of mine went to a class on the history of the church, and came back in a state of shock…it was pretty bad.

(People forget there were other geographical locations in the church that were not scandalous like that which Luther witnessed.)

Catherine of Siena preceeded Luther, I believe by several hundred years…and she stated that it is grace in faith in Christ that saves us…the Mass says it…in the offering of Christ as the only acceptable sacrifice and this memorial has been prayed and celebrated for 2,000 years now…

The bishop did not say the following, but I read it some where…that Luther did have physical problems…that he was in a latrine when he got his great inspiration…and there was an article here on Worms, the city of Luther, that still keeps the toilet.

People, correct me…I am getting old, have been a very fast reader and am now making mistakes. I certainly don’t want to give false information here…

But how holy is that…?? Look at individualistic America and its 34,000 cults all claiming to get it right through Sola Scriptura…

Yet it is very hard to see beyond people’s or institutions shortcomings…

 

[katgee]

I might add, according to the observations of one Jew who became a fulfilled Jew in the Catholic Church…Christ called us to be one, He is the one Who revealed God now as Father…and then in time, we began to see Mary as our Mother…St. Joseph as our Guardian Father…

Jesus is restoring us to be brothers and sisters…the Old Testament in a passage stated there was nothing more pleasing to God than for us to love our neighbors as brethren.

According to this Jewish man living in the heartland of America today, he sees Protestantism as the great Apostasy because it broke up families…how many have children or relatives who left the church can no longer can even pray together the Our Father?? What kind of faith is that??? This is ill will and division, not the marks of Jesus.

Protestantism allowed divorce and the breakdown of the family, it led to the Enlightenment where now man defies God and wants to create his own life, to the practice of contraception in 1930 started by the Anglicans in Christian countries that has brought about depopulation of various parts of the worl to those that use it, the liberal protestants breaking down resistance to abortion by many accepting it while the Catholic Church has resolutely held on to the conviction that Human Life is sacred…and only God alone decides who is conceived and when each one of us dies.

I brought a woman to our Mother’s Day luncheon on Mary, all the different tables covered with flowers and a special theme, such as Mary, Seat of Wisdom…a sharing of a woman who did not abort her baby because of a most serious birth defect…and seeing the son who is 18 come up and meet everyone…this woman sharing as well how she and her Catholic friend know the Bible, His word sustaining her and her family so this baby would survive…At the end of the luncheon, I asked the woman who is Four Square Gospel and not into a man made church, what she thought of Mary now and how we honor her, and she patted me and said now she understands and everything is all right.

Learn Catholicism from authentic sources and not second hand talk. I am afraid so much of protestantism is that.

Without the Catholic Church, the fundamentalist churches, and the newbies that have come out since the 1830’s would have alot of their thunder removed…

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Katgee,

What an interesting story. I was delighted to hear of the Mother’s Day Luncheon.

I might add, according to the observations of one Jew who became a fulfilled Jew in the Catholic Church…Christ called us to be one, He is the one Who revealed God now as Father…and then in time, we began to see Mary as our Mother…St. Joseph as our Guardian Father…

Jesus is restoring us to be brothers and sisters…the Old Testament in a passage stated there was nothing more pleasing to God than for us to love our neighbors as brethren.

According to this Jewish man living in the heartland of America today, he sees Protestantism as the great Apostasy because it broke up families…how many have children or relatives who left the church can no longer can even pray together the Our Father?? What kind of faith is that??? This is ill will and division, not the marks of Jesus.

Protestantism allowed divorce and the breakdown of the family, it led to the Enlightenment where now man defies God and wants to create his own life, to the practice of contraception in 1930 started by the Anglicans in Christian countries that has brought about depopulation of various parts of the worl to those that use it, the liberal protestants breaking down resistance to abortion by many accepting it while the Catholic Church has resolutely held on to the conviction that Human Life is sacred…and only God alone decides who is conceived and when each one of us dies.

I brought a woman to our Mother’s Day luncheon on Mary, all the different tables covered with flowers and a special theme, such as Mary, Seat of Wisdom…a sharing of a woman who did not abort her baby because of a most serious birth defect…and seeing the son who is 18 come up and meet everyone…this woman sharing as well how she and her Catholic friend know the Bible, His word sustaining her and her family so this baby would survive…At the end of the luncheon, I asked the woman who is Four Square Gospel and not into a man made church, what she thought of Mary now and how we honor her, and she patted me and said now she understands and everything is all right.

Learn Catholicism from authentic sources and not second hand talk. I am afraid so much of protestantism is that.

Without the Catholic Church, the fundamentalist churches, and the newbies that have come out since the 1830’s would have alot of their thunder removed…

God bless

 

[katgee]

Thanks, Tom.

Forgiveness is the only divine act we can do in this life, according to a saint…can’t remember the name now.

I think Christians have to hold on to Jesus Christ and His sacraments, and it is so hard when they see scandal or have been abused.

He gave us His Body and Blood. He is separate from us, but the Catholic Church is His means He has used to bring us the Sacraments that bring us eternal life.

I have protestant friends, we pray, but it always seems limited to me…we have Jesus the Word Made Flesh…we get everything in the Mass and do not need to endlessly look up all the English words to see the different meanings…

We hear the Word, followed by the Liturgy of the Eucharist…Who then reconnects us to daily life to serve others…

 

[Pacbox]

Hi bpbasilphx:

Are you prepared to give up the Eucharist?? I’m sad.

I went to an SDA “camp meeting” with someone who played in a band there for worship and praise and they actually had crackers and juice just lying out on a table for anyone to go up and “take”.

Are you okay with that?

I was so hurt by that. It seemed like mockery to me. I just prayed that all who were “taking” felt something when they did.

God Bless You.

HC

**Edit: I don’t mean to say the were mocking the Eucharist, I just mean that having received Christ’s Body and Blood in the catholic Church, I was truly hurt seeing that. I think, at least I hope they are sincere in their intentions.

bpbasilphx isn’t converting to SDA. phummel is. bpbasilphx posts the part of a post in regular font and then his reply to it in bold. He wouldn’t leave the Church (I can’t remember what rite he is but he is very knowledgeable about the Catholic faith.)

 

[Pacbox]

Hi, Pacbox,

Ooooooooooops … the link …did not link!

God bless

Well, if you do a search of this forum with “seven day adventist” as the search phrase you’ll come up with the results I got.

 

[phummel]

SDAs are border-line Christians. Many of their beliefs are erroneous and are not scriptural in origin, such as “soul sleep” ( shades of Jehovahs Witnesses! ) and millenialism. They have tried a number of times to predict the return of Jesus Christ and the “end times”.
They do believe in the Trinity, though, and have done much good for the communities in which they are based. But this does not excuse them from rejecting most of Jesus’s teachings and promulgating their own. Please reconsider you decision. For further info
on the SDA church, please read “Kingdom of the Cults” by Dr. Walter Martin ( available in most book stores ). His work on the SDA is thoroghly reserched and unbiased. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Hello,
I accept “soul sleep” and find strong Biblical support for it. It ties closely to the promise of resurrection and rejection of eternal torment in Hell.

Wikipedia does a nice job of summarizing the proof texts we use for soul sleep:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_sleep
In addition, a couple of verses from the NT.

Acts 2:29-34
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre [tomb] is with us unto this day.
34 Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens.

1 Timothy 6:15-16
15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

For me it starts with a loving picture of our Father. I can’t believe that He would sadistic and demand eternal torment. What an awful thing to contemplate the torment of a lost loved one.

I give my allegience to the SDA church based on belief and not its human history. We talk about “present day truths” and reject the notion of having a creed. (ironic since creed=beliefs - point is, they should not be so firm that they can’t change) Our doctrines should continually come under scrutiny and we should be open to truth.

God bless you,
paul

 

[phummel]

He spells this out in John 6, and the Synoptics all agree that Christ took bread, blessed and broke it and told His Apostles this was His Body - NOT this is a symbol, or a metaphor or a memory of my Body. I think the plain words of Christ are there for all to see who want to see.

I don’t see it but will pray.

Personally, I think you have set an impossible task for yourself… if you are dealing with doctrine between SDA and the CC. Now, if you are talking about being friendsly with family members who do not agree with you - well… I think you have already demonstated your capacity for this on CAF. So, this should be a doable deed.

Right, there is no reconciling SDA and CC doctrines, so just being friendly and sharing the joy of Christ is the best I can hope for.

It is difficult for a group to separate itself from its roots - and from the deeply held beliefs of its founder. E.G.While had her own agenda and bridging any gap with the CC and its teachings was not part of her plan. (At least as I undestand it.) While you may try to stick to what you think is proper - just take a look at the history of the founder of SDA - these positiions are not easily reconciled. And then you may face not being accepted by either group - you can not espouse SDA beliefs as a Catholic and you can not espouse Catholic beliefs as SDA member.

I don’t feel obligated to defend SDA church history, but remain focused on the present and future.
My lifestyle is distinctly SDA and many of my core beliefs too. Yet I can’t look to any one church or denomination and 100% agree with all their beliefs. Rather, I find comfort and fellowship being with other Christians and enjoy the efficiencies of the SDA church for doing good works.
If you have time say a prayer for me.

God bless you,
paul

 

[phummel]

I might add, according to the observations of one Jew who became a fulfilled Jew in the Catholic Church…Christ called us to be one, He is the one Who revealed God now as Father…and then in time, we began to see Mary as our Mother…St. Joseph as our Guardian Father…

Jesus is restoring us to be brothers and sisters…the Old Testament in a passage stated there was nothing more pleasing to God than for us to love our neighbors as brethren.

According to this Jewish man living in the heartland of America today, he sees Protestantism as the great Apostasy because it broke up families…how many have children or relatives who left the church can no longer can even pray together the Our Father?? What kind of faith is that??? This is ill will and division, not the marks of Jesus.

Protestantism allowed divorce and the breakdown of the family, it led to the Enlightenment where now man defies God and wants to create his own life, to the practice of contraception in 1930 started by the Anglicans in Christian countries that has brought about depopulation of various parts of the worl to those that use it, the liberal protestants breaking down resistance to abortion by many accepting it while the Catholic Church has resolutely held on to the conviction that Human Life is sacred…and only God alone decides who is conceived and when each one of us dies.

I brought a woman to our Mother’s Day luncheon on Mary, all the different tables covered with flowers and a special theme, such as Mary, Seat of Wisdom…a sharing of a woman who did not abort her baby because of a most serious birth defect…and seeing the son who is 18 come up and meet everyone…this woman sharing as well how she and her Catholic friend know the Bible, His word sustaining her and her family so this baby would survive…At the end of the luncheon, I asked the woman who is Four Square Gospel and not into a man made church, what she thought of Mary now and how we honor her, and she patted me and said now she understands and everything is all right.

Learn Catholicism from authentic sources and not second hand talk. I am afraid so much of protestantism is that.

Without the Catholic Church, the fundamentalist churches, and the newbies that have come out since the 1830’s would have alot of their thunder removed…

Hi Kathleen,

Our Mass goes back to ancient times…
Paul, the first head of Jerusalem was St. James, the Lesser, and was with Jesus for 3 and a half years…you should study some Catholic sources of early Christian practices, such as the liturgy of St. James in Jerusalem, return to Mass and see how much of hte perspective is the same as then…being an institution, a bureaucracy of outward human structure is not bad.
Do you have a link to the “liturgy of St. James in Jerusalem” that you can share?

None of us can meet the Father as acceptable and proper, but only the Lamb of God, Christ Crucified. It is He who is the focus of our worship, True God and True Man, Who has died for us, and we are then offered through Him to the Father.
Amen.

irregardless of the merits or failings of our priests, as the focus is on Christ Himself Who is beyond and us and sustains the church. Everything else does not matter.
Yes, I think that is important for any church to insolate itself from human failings.

I wouldn’t trust anyone using Sola Scriptura…
Right sola scriptura is loaded with peril. I do not revere Luther but I think the reformation was a good thing.

Jesus is restoring us to be brothers and sisters…the Old Testament in a passage stated there was nothing more pleasing to God than for us to love our neighbors as brethren.
Amen.

Learn Catholicism from authentic sources and not second hand talk. I am afraid so much of protestantism is that.
Without the Catholic Church, the fundamentalist churches, and the newbies that have come out since the 1830’s would have alot of their thunder removed…
Agreed. I’ve spent time scanning resources that the CC provides. Praise God for the openness and transparency. However, it is troubling to go through history and read about the things that were done in His name. No doubt that this tied to human failings, but why did the representatives of Christ on earth have power to wield violence?

On Protestantism in general… I believe God rules His universe with freedom; this exemplifies love. By His example, we want to extend this same freedom to our brothers and sisters. This comes with great risk, but also trust that God has a plan and that the universe will be restored.

God bless you,
paul

 

[Javl]

Hello,
I accept “soul sleep” and find strong Biblical support for it. It ties closely to the promise of resurrection and rejection of eternal torment in Hell.

Wikipedia does a nice job of summarizing the proof texts we use for soul sleep:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_sleep
In addition, a couple of verses from the NT.

Acts 2:29-34
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre [tomb] is with us unto this day.
34 Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens.

1 Timothy 6:15-16
15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

For me it starts with a loving picture of our Father. I can’t believe that He would sadistic and demand eternal torment. What an awful thing to contemplate the torment of a lost loved one.

I give my allegience to the SDA church based on belief and not its human history. We talk about “present day truths” and reject the notion of having a creed. (ironic since creed=beliefs - point is, they should not be so firm that they can’t change) Our doctrines should continually come under scrutiny and we should be open to truth.

God bless you,
paul

Paul:
Yes, be open to truth, but truth never changes. At best, we can understand it
more clearly. Creeds are fixed beliefs that are based on truths that never change.

As for God demanding eternal torment, He does not. It is we who reject Him and His truths and follow the whims and fancies given us by Satan that condemn ourselves to eternal torment. It is we who choose, and not God who condemns. This is scriptural
( read Revelation ).

If you accept “soul sleep”, then you reject what Christ and the Apostles have taught about the existence of the soul after physical death. For example 1 Peter 3:19-20,
1 Peter 4:6. Also, the Jews of Jesus day believed and taught of the existence of the
soul after death and that it was held in Hades ( a waiting place ) .Since Jesus was a
Jew, He never refuted this belief or teaching and taught it Himself. ( ref: “The Works of Flavius Josephus” by William Whitson )

This is what happens when individuals interpret scripture by themselves without any true knowledge or training. They put into it whatever they want to believe, whether or not it is there. This is why Christendom is so divided into over 30,000 different churches and denominations, sects, and cults, each one claiming to be the true church while rejecting all others and the one Real True Church that is the deposit and holder of all truths as given it by Jesus Christ.

I will pray for you. God Bless,
Len

 

[happilycatholic]

bpbasilphx isn’t converting to SDA. phummel is. bpbasilphx posts the part of a post in regular font and then his reply to it in bold. He wouldn’t leave the Church (I can’t remember what rite he is but he is very knowledgeable about the Catholic faith.)

Oh crikey! I’m sooooo glad to hear that. Thank you.

Sorry for the confusion bpbasilphx!

 

[happilycatholic]

Hello Phummel:

I have a question for you. Can you tell me where Christ the Redeemer is celebrated in the Sabbath?

This is not meant to be confrontational, this is an issue that I can’t get past when dealing with the Adventist community. I have friends who are SDA and my finace’ is involved in a praise and worship band that is associated with an SDA church and several of the members of that band are also SDA.

Blessings

HC

 

[katgee]

Thanks, Paul for responding…again you need to study church history, and learn events in context of their times…

You need to study the way the earliest Christians worshiped as well.

The Lord called us to be one. The Church allows Biblical studies…I met someone who is into feminist Biblical studies…but it is not considered in the context of apostolic tradition…meaning, understanding and living out the Word of God in the way and manner handed down to us from the Apostles.

Again, you will always have the chaff with the wheat…and it is the work of all of us to make the church more personable and charitable…we can’t be passive spectators to the events around us…

There were just issues Martin Luther had in regards to the Catholic church in some parts of Europe. You also have to understand the sacrificial nature of the Mass and the offering of the work of our hands. But to call out misbehaviors is not the same as going as far as Luther did in removing 7 books of Scripture to support his position.

You can read many threads and posts on the Bible here on Catholic Answers, that are far better researched and founded than anything I could offer you.

Priests are always very hard working and we need to do our part as believers.

When was the last time you went to Mass? How much have you studied your former association before leaving…did you consult with a priest before leaving? I mean, I have ha difficulties when I was young, but I would go to a priest to answer my doubts…my grandmother told me in hard times to focus on the Mass and the sacraments and not focus on controversy…

 

[katgee]

Paul,

To read the Liturgy of St. James, to read essentially how the Mass began, there is a book out called, ‘The Mass of the Early Christians’, by Mike Aquilina.

Many people are coming into the church through history.

In any Catholic gathering, because of its universal nature, you going to have all kinds of people at all different levels of their faith, and the parish priest has to accommodate and nurture the faith level of each one.

To survive and endure in a 2,000 year old institution, you have to endure by being nourished by the Word of God…read the psalm that refers to climbing the mountain of the Lord…the epistles that exhort us to keep our focus on all that is true and sincere…to bless those who curse us and so on. There are many people now with personal issues in our parishes that are broken and hurting…

Looking at the context of the culture of our times, we are seeing many from broken homes, in recovery from living a hedonistic lifestyle, victims of abuse and the impact it has on a person’s perceptions…of those in the congregation. I mean, you will see people be hurtful towards other at times in your parish…you can’t judge, you don’t know what kind of trauma they went through to be that way…however, deliberate and malicious misrepresenting another member, abuse and contention should never be tolerated…but usually when that happens in a community, there are other issues going on as well that allow such behaviors to come out in the open…I have been there, I have seen it, and was harmed by such things myself…and had to remember what my grandmother told me in staying focused…

God bless you, Paul.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Paul,

I think many of us will be praying for you…

If you have time say a prayer for me.
God bless you,
paul

God bless

 

[happilycatholic]

Hi, Paul,

I think many of us will be praying for you…

God bless

Ditto!!

 

[phummel]

Hello Phummel:

I have a question for you. Can you tell me where Christ the Redeemer is celebrated in the Sabbath?

This is not meant to be confrontational, this is an issue that I can’t get past when dealing with the Adventist community. I have friends who are SDA and my finace’ is involved in a praise and worship band that is associated with an SDA church and several of the members of that band are also SDA.

Blessings

HC

Hi HC,

Sabbath is there after God’s most convincing demonstrations of who He is:

• After creation
• After the Exodus
• After the crucifixtion - He rose on Sunday and not Sabbath.

Here is some progressive Adventist theology for you:

• The Great Controversy is Satan versus God. It is Satan slandering God’s name and lying to both angels and humans about the character of God.
• Think about grace - it is there for us to accept this gift and join God and have salvation. Now think of judgment - we are judging whether we trust God or Satan. We can believe God and accept His grace or believe Satan and reject it.
• Back to Sabbath - “God rests His case” on Sabbath. He has presented all the evidence for us to remember, weigh, and consider.

I think Sabbath is minimized when we see it as an arbitrary test of obedience. Rather it is a time to remember all the things He has done for us.

God bless you,
Paul