Seventh Day Adventists

[Pharos963]

Wow!!! Javi, you have made it crystal clear that everyone here is debating a moot point!! God bless you for this clear point of relevance !!! When I even begin to think about creation, and how God begun His work…well it just blows my mind. You are so correct…How can anyone claim to “KNOW” what happened on that day? Monday, tuesday wenesday…etal is that what God planned ? I think that the only thing to be taken away is that we should a a “day” set aside to worship.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, DavidMark,

“Nonsense”? I have to hand to you DavidMark… when it comes to “Nonsense” you can certainly speak from authority!

Could someone explain to me the “nonsense” of Two Witnesses in Revelation 11,
who have the power to shut off “rain” for 3½ days like Elijah, and turn rivers to blood like Moses, are “killed” and resurrected and cause fear in those who behold them?

So Israel *could *enjoy a three-day week-end, for Muslims Friday is Jomeh, for Jews and Adventists Saturday is Shabbat, and Sunday is for the other Christians…or
all four seasons are holy, a “year of Sundays”!

Really, after that four part ramble which evaded the problems I identified with your previous post, I would go easy on calling anyone else’s ideas ‘nonsense’…

God bless

 

[DavidMark]

Looks like a lot elaborate nonsense to me.

This is what i notice about a lot of Catholics, they are apt to say the prophecies are “without holiness” or worse. Here is one of the cases of the Gospel verifying prophecies from Daniel, and greggy doesn’t want to understand, but just shoves it off the table, like a baby in his high chair. Now eat your good food greggy.

Remember Peter’s question about forgiveness?
Matthew 18:21 **Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? --till seven times? ** 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven…

This is, of course, a mandate for us to forgive each other; but Jesus is reminding Peter and the others of the prophecy about divine Forgiveness, found in Daniel 9:24-26. 70 X 7 = 490.
The Second Temple was constructed in 457 BCE, by the decrees of the kings of Persia, (See Ezra 7) who had liberated the Jews from Babylon. 457 BC + 490 = 33 CE, the age of Jesus, when “an anointed one” was to be “cut off”, that is, Jesus was crucified.

I’m curious to know if this is “nonsense” to you or “unintersting” or “irrelevent” or what?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, DavidMark,

You have a real touch for faulting others for your own short-comings. Truly singular … but, maybe you need to take another look at what it is you are trying to say.

This is what i notice about a lot of Catholics, they are apt to say the prophecies are “without holiness” or worse. Here is one of the cases of the Gospel verifying prophecies from Daniel, and greggy doesn’t want to understand, but just shoves it off the table, like a baby in his high chair. Now eat your good food greggy.

I have been a Catholic for 63 years - and I have done a lot of study about the True Faith … and I have yet to hear the expression about “…prophecies are ‘without holiness’ or worse” when addressing God’s prophecies. Now, when it comes to the ramblings of individuals who foolishly think they have ‘figured out’ the Mind of God…that is a totally different story! Insulting Greggy accomplishes nothing positive…and is not conducive to encouraging dialogue…

Remember Peter’s question about forgiveness?
Matthew 18:21 **Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? --till seven times? ** 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven…

This is, of course, a mandate for us to forgive each other; but Jesus is reminding Peter and the others of the prophecy about divine Forgiveness, found in Daniel 9:24-26. 70 X 7 = 490.
The Second Temple was constructed in 457 BCE, by the decrees of the kings of Persia, (See Ezra 7) who had liberated the Jews from Babylon. 457 BC + 490 = 33 CE, the age of Jesus, when “an anointed one” was to be “cut off”, that is, Jesus was crucified.

You are right about Christ telling Peter that there is no limit on our forgiveness of our fellow men. But, really, putting dates and the multiplication of numbers as if to show there is a connection is straight out of the pages of the discredited Miller and his Disappointed followers. Some may try to create other explanations - but, the bottom line is that was truly a ‘prophecy’ without any holiness to it at all. If you see connections here - are there prophecies to E.G. White and her ‘prophecies’ (after all, this is a link about SDA - and it is always good to stay focused on the thread! )
DavidMark;5974270:

I’m curious to know if this is “nonsense” to you or “unintersting” or “irrelevent” or what?

I would encourage you to weave this back into the SDA thread we have been working on and to stay on topic. These ramblings of your are getting a bit tedious for my weary brain to follow…

God bless

 

[SOSOLAK]

Sorry to rehash the same old subject, but can you tell me what day of the week the Sabbath is? Thank you.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Thanks PAX, i am sorry i lack knowledge on history(religous history of the churches beliefs etc,.) for me to answer your question. However, you have to convience me also if saturday which SDA keep today is not the right day. You have to prove to me if a day has been lost in history from the time the 10 commandment was given to date. Also tell me if the day (sabbath) that Jesus went to church during the new testament time has been lost.I mean did the calendah from Jesus time has been changed? . If it doesn;t than those disciples and apostle worship on the same sabbath which the seventhday memebere are keeping.

God bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Sosolak,

I hope you do not mind if I join in…

Thanks PAX, i am sorry i lack knowledge on history(religous history of the churches beliefs etc,.) for me to answer your question. However, you have to convience me also if saturday which SDA keep today is not the right day. You have to prove to me if a day has been lost in history from the time the 10 commandment was given to date. Also tell me if the day (sabbath) that Jesus went to church during the new testament time has been lost.I mean did the calendah from Jesus time has been changed? . If it doesn;t than those disciples and apostle worship on the same sabbath which the seventhday memebere are keeping.

God bless

From my experience, “…hav(ing) to convience me…” is probably not a good way to go about this. No one is here to force anyone into a belief system. I think the majority of folks on this list are intersted in presenting ideas to help people make the best choice that they can. From my understanding of your previous post, your mind is already made up. So be it.

If, however, you want to just consider the following items presented in this link: catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9902fea1.asp then I think you will have ALL of your concerns addressed. Personally, I think you will find this an excellent read for an inquiring mind. After you read it, if you have any questions, I will be happy to respond.

God bless

 

[DavidMark]

tqualey said: I have been a Catholic for 63 years - and I have done a lot of study about the True Faith … and I have yet to hear the expression about “…prophecies are ‘without holiness’ or worse” when addressing God’s prophecies.

I find it astonishing that you see no connection between 490, both in Daniel and Matthew, when Jesus refers to Daniel elsewhere in Matthew for a different prophecy.
And I find it perplexing that the genesis of SDA is no longer a topic about SDA.

About "no holiness"I was quoting what another Catholic named Mateo said in the first post here forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=4030

 

[Javl]

Thanks PAX, i am sorry i lack knowledge on history(religous history of the churches beliefs etc,.) for me to answer your question. However, you have to convience me also if saturday which SDA keep today is not the right day. You have to prove to me if a day has been lost in history from the time the 10 commandment was given to date. Also tell me if the day (sabbath) that Jesus went to church during the new testament time has been lost.I mean did the calendah from Jesus time has been changed? . If it doesn;t than those disciples and apostle worship on the same sabbath which the seventhday memebere are keeping.

God bless

The only proof I have is that of the early Church Fathers and the practice of the primitive Church. Other than that I can not. By the SDA keeping the Sabbath on Saturday, to me, and I guess others, means that you are following the old law. I thought Jesus fulfilled the old law and gave us a new commandment and a new covenant. With me, and others,
by keeping the Sabbath on a Sunday we commemorate and celebrate Jesus’ rising
from the dead, which is the basis of our faith as Christians. As such, we can abrogate
the Saturday Sabbath. I hope you understand. God Bless.

 

[Javl]

SOSOLAK:

As an added point of interest. There is a Jewish community within the Church that keeps
its Jewish heritage and most forms of worship ( hebrewcatholics.org ). They
no longer keep the Sabbath on Saturday, but keep it on Sunday. They are not forced to
do so but do it willingly in honor of Jesus’ resurrection. Also, other Messianic Jews also
keep the Sabbath on Sunday. Are they wrong?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[greggy53]

This is what i notice about a lot of Catholics, they are apt to say the prophecies are “without holiness” or worse. Here is one of the cases of the Gospel verifying prophecies from Daniel, and greggy doesn’t want to understand, but just shoves it off the table, like a baby in his high chair. Now eat your good food greggy.

What is this? are we back in the 8th grade here? Look, it’s obvious to me that you are involved with some sort of cult. I’m not going to respond to anymore of your gibberish. I am a Christian and I am here to discuss Christianity not the oracles of some goat herder from Timbuktu. Enough said.

 

[tqualey]

All right Greggy53 … you did it…

What is this? are we back in the 8th grade here? Look, it’s obvious to me that you are involved with some sort of cult. I’m not going to respond to anymore of your gibberish. I am a Christian and I am here to discuss Christianity not the oracles of some goat herder from Timbuktu. Enough said.

I searched and searched my memory…and came up bland - but, you… ah, now ‘gibberish’ that’s the word! For the longest time I read and re-read his material, and said to myself, “Self, this makes no sense - and he complains of nonsense?!!” Thanks for insights.

God bless

 

[Javl]

All right Greggy53 … you did it…

I searched and searched my memory…and came up bland - but, you… ah, now ‘gibberish’ that’s the word! For the longest time I read and re-read his material, and said to myself, “Self, this makes no sense - and he complains of nonsense?!!” Thanks for insights.

God bless

Greggy53 and tqualey:

Gentlemen:
You do not know or understand Baha’i. From what I have learned and understand of it, they have taken what they consider the best of all religions. All religions, in their eyes are
incomplete and do not lead to the ultimate. I am sorry to say that such a mish-mash
really confuses me, but I ask of you a little patience, fortitude, and mostly charity to
get him ( or them ) out of the tangled web that they have woven for themselves. As an
added note, Baha’i sprang up from Islam. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[DavidMark]

Wake up. You say you’re Christians, but I assert that maybe you forgot His voice.
If you were true sheep, you would recognize the Shepherds voice, whether it is in gentleness or urgency. But go your way, and in the Hereafter, all will be clear as day.

 

[Protestant101]

The only proof I have is that of the early Church Fathers and the practice of the primitive Church. Other than that I can not. By the SDA keeping the Sabbath on Saturday, to me, and I guess others, means that you are following the old law. I thought Jesus fulfilled the old law and gave us a new commandment and a new covenant. With me, and others,
by keeping the Sabbath on a Sunday we commemorate and celebrate Jesus’ rising
from the dead, which is the basis of our faith as Christians. As such, we can abrogate
the Saturday Sabbath. I hope you understand. God Bless.

This is one of the points that some Protestants would make is that the Bible itself holds no proof of the seventh day Sabbath being changed by God into the 1st day sabbath. But you brought up another very interesting point, that of Jesus “fulfilling” the law. Would you mind if I asked you what does that specifically mean to you, that Jesus “fulfilled” the law?

 

[tqualey]

Amen to that idea, DavidMark.

As I recall:

1.) We are called Christians because we follow Christ. Who is/was Baha’i that you follow?

2.) Christ, the Good Shepherd, and in His Voice spoke to Peter building Christ’s Church on this frail fisherman, and gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom (Matt 16:13-19). If you are following the Good Shepherd’s Voice, then you need to focus on what He, and not others have said.
3.) Christ, True God and True Man, and in His Voice, charitably rebuked Peter for totally missing the point about why Christ had come to save us from the wages of sin (Matt 16: 22-23) If you are interested in recognizing His Voice, then paying attention to what He wants you to do is critical to doing His Will.

4.) Christ, the Risen Lord, and in His Voice spoke to Peter reconfirming his leadership position over the other Apostles (John 21:15-17) The current Successor of St. Peter is Pope Benedict XVI. The Vicar of Christ on earth has much to say to those who will listen. While you are welcome to wait until standing before the White Throne of God, I would suggest that you consider following the leader Christ has given us on earth.

Wake up. You say you’re Christians, but I assert that maybe you forgot His voice.
If you were true sheep, you would recognize the Shepherds voice, whether it is in gentleness or urgency. But go your way, and in the Hereafter, all will be clear as day.

God bless

 

[greggy53]

Greggy53 and tqualey:

Gentlemen:
You do not know or understand Baha’i. From what I have learned and understand of it, they have taken what they consider the best of all religions. All religions, in their eyes are
incomplete and do not lead to the ultimate. I am sorry to say that such a mish-mash
really confuses me, but I ask of you a little patience, fortitude, and mostly charity to
get him ( or them ) out of the tangled web that they have woven for themselves. As an
added note, Baha’i sprang up from Islam. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

You are right I don’t understand Bahi, nor do I care about it… I have known more that a few people who like this guy have taken little pieces of religions that they like and put them together to form their own belief system. They take what part of what belief that they think sounds good, and mix it up into a stew with other tidbits of other faiths. Whatever, I am not interested in someone elses made up Religion. In my opinion direct intervention of the Holy Spirit is the only way you are ever going to get through to this guy.

 

[Protestant101]

All right Greggy53 … you did it…

I searched and searched my memory…and came up bland - but, you… ah, now ‘gibberish’ that’s the word! For the longest time I read and re-read his material, and said to myself, “Self, this makes no sense - and he complains of nonsense?!!” Thanks for insights.

God bless

“Hullaballoo” is a word I use for gibberish.

 

[Protestant101]

You are right I don’t understand Bahi, nor do I care about it… I have known more that a few people who like this guy have taken little pieces of religions that they like and put them together to form their own belief system. They take what part of what belief that they think sounds good, and mix it up into a stew with other tidbits of other faiths. Whatever, I am not interested in someone elses made up Religion. In my opinion direct intervention of the Holy Spirit is the only way you are ever going to get through to this guy.

Well; we could call Catholic religion a “stew” too of Christian and pagan traditions; but then you’d say we weren’t being fair. There are parts of Christianity (both Protestant and Catholic) that are made up - they are called traditions; but in some cases, (certainly not all) traditions are Biblical.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, P101,

Thank you for sharing.

“Hullaballoo” is a word I use for gibberish.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, P101,

Actually, I would say that you are being inaccurate and throwing out accusations for which you again fail to provide any evidence to support your position. I see you are at your little ‘evasion dance’ agian - even when not involved in the conversation directly. Feeling left out…?

Well; we could call Catholic religion a “stew” too of Christian and pagan traditions; but then you’d say we weren’t being fair. There are parts of Christianity (both Protestant and Catholic) that are made up - they are called traditions; but in some cases, (certainly not all) traditions are Biblical.

I am quite confident you are able to enumerate and clearly identify all of the human traditions of E.G.White and company. Maybe if you were to start there, we could not only stay focused on this thread, but also get the benefit of your considerable experience in separating fact from fiction.

Looking forward to hearing from you - so long as you actually do respond … no more of your ‘dancing’ please.

God bless