Seventh Day Adventists

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Not really. Christ claimed to be and is God, why then would He not accept worship from the apostles?
 
Gentlemen, would you be kind enough to go through each of the texts that I have supplied and give me your interpretation?? Just so as I can understand your opinion.
 
Catdan said:
Gentlemen, would you be kind enough to go through each of the texts that I have supplied and give me your interpretation?? Just so as I can understand your opinion.
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We all have done so previously and yet you have ignored our “interpretations” and have rarely responded to all of our posts and/or questions. To do so again is only to repeat what has been done before.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Catdan said:
What does the name
Michael actually mean?

The name Michael is of Hebrew origin, and is a word compiled of three separate hebrew words. These are:

(1) miy
This word is an interrogative pronoun of persons, according to Strong’s, and literally means “Who?”

(2) kiy
This is a conjunction, connecting miy with el.

(3) el
This word is normally translated “God” and refers most often to the God of heaven.

The name therefore literally means, as Strong’s puts it: Who (is) like God?

Interesting. Note also that the majority of times that this figure named Michael appears in scripture, he is found in some type of conflict with the Devil or his human followers, who represent the devil. This thought, along with the meaning of this name, brings to mind what the enemy desires for himself:

Isaiah 14:12-14
(12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
(13) For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
(14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

The Devil desires to be like God, yet whenever he encounters Michael, he is confronted with the question “Who is like God?” As if to say that he, Michael, is the one that is like God, and not the devil.

What does “archangel” mean? According to Strong’s, it means “chief angel.” Thayer’s Greek Definition says it means, “Chief of the angels.” So Michael is the chief angel, or chief of all the angels of God.

The Hebrew equivalent of “chief” is the Hebrew word sar which can be translated either chief, prince, ruler, or captain. Notice this verse:

Daniel 12:1-2
(1) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people…

Note carefully that the word translated “prince” here is this word “sar.” This same word is translated “captain” in verse 14 of Joshua chapter 5:

Joshua 5:13-15
(13) And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
(14) And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
(15) And the captain of the LORD’S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

This figure that appeared to Joshua must be the same one that appears in Daniel 12, for both hold to the same title of “sar” or “chief, head.” More proof is found in Revelation 12:7, where Michael is said to be the leader (and his angels) of the angels (hosts). The figure here in Joshua 5:14 is also the chief or leader of “the hosts of the Lord.”

Moreover, since this figure is the “chief” of the hosts, or angels, of the Lord, it must also be the same “archangel” of Jude 1:9 because archangel means, as we have seen… “chief of the angels.” Couple that with the fact that Christ himself comes with the “voice of the archangel” in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, making him the figure that appeared unto Joshua in chapter 5 verse 14. And we are not surprised at this, for the Angel in Joshua 5:14 spoke the same words that the “Angel of the Lord” told Moses in Exodus 3:5 whom he also worshiped, those words being:

“Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy.”
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What can I say about your “evidence”? I restrained from responding before out of politeness. Most of it borders on being gibberish. At best it tells us that Michael is the captain of the angels, something we already know. It doesn’t even remotely connect Jesus and Michael as being one and the same. Nothing any of you have said on this matter has made any sense at all.😦
 
Catdan said:
oh it must be that closed mind syndrome that we have!!!:confused:
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Look, your interpretations of scripture concerning this are found nowhere else in Christian, or Jewish thought save for another fringe cult the JW’s. Like your fanciful interpretations concerning Sabbath worship it relies on a linking of scriptures which most of the time are completely unrelated. We can’t begin to discuss these associations because they do not exist. The conclusion(that Michael is God) subscribed to them is conjecture on your (SDA) part and to accept it would be to do so without any direct or reasonable biblical connection…
 
So just confirming you won’t give me your interpretation of the texts that I provided??? I’m genuinely interested and don’t consider myself to have a closed mind. Just looking for your slant on what I’ve provided. 👍
 
Hi, Catdan,

Now that was interesting … all up to the point where conclusions are drawn…😃
Catdan said:
What does the name
Michael actually mean? Edited for brevity…

The name therefore literally means, as Strong’s puts it: Who (is) like God?

Interesting. Note also that the majority of times that this figure named Michael appears in scripture, he is found in some type of conflict with the Devil or his human followers, who represent the devil. This thought, along with the meaning of this name, brings to mind what the enemy desires for himself:

What does “archangel” mean? According to Strong’s, it means “chief angel.” Thayer’s Greek Definition says it means, “Chief of the angels.” So Michael is the chief angel, or chief of all the angels of God. Edited for brevity…

Moreover, since this figure is the “chief” of the hosts, or angels, of the Lord, it must also be the same “archangel” of Jude 1:9 because archangel means, as we have seen… “chief of the angels.” Couple that with the fact that Christ himself comes with the “voice of the archangel” in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, making him the figure that appeared unto Joshua in chapter 5 verse 14. And we are not surprised at this, for the Angel in Joshua 5:14 spoke the same words that the “Angel of the Lord” told Moses in Exodus 3:5 whom he also worshiped, those words being:

“Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy.”
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God creates - He is not a creature. Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity is true God and true Man. Since the number of people who have actually heard an angel speak are very few - and those of us who read about such events can only guess what this voice must sound like … isn’t it possible that this is the author’s way of describing something based on an metaphor?

Seriously, think about it - to reject Christ as God because some author said He sounded like an angel? God can sound like anything He wants to sound like - this does not limit Him - and it certainly does not diminish His Power. The only way Christ’s Death would have any redemptive effect would be for God to do it - All Perfection redeeming us from our sinful state.

To thnk of Christ as a creature - even the very best creature - is to truly misunderstand Christ’s on words when He said that “I and the Father are One”.

God bless
 
Catdan said:
So just confirming you won’t give me your interpretation of the texts that I provided??? I’m genuinely interested and don’t consider myself to have a closed mind. Just looking for your slant on what I’ve provided. 👍
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OK, here is the first quote you listed:
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations? 13 And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north. 14 I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High. 15 But yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, into the depth of the pit.

My Catholic Bible says this about it:12 “O Lucifer”… O day star. All this, according to the letter, is spoken of the king of Babylon. It may also be applied, in a spiritual sense, to Lucifer the prince of devils, who was created a bright angel, but fell by pride and rebellion against God.

Your quote above has absolutely nothing to do with Michael.

Your quote from Daniel states that Michael will stand up for God’s people. It doesn’t make any statement about Michael being God. Perhaps it is because the word “prince” is used to describe him that causes you to jump to that conclusion?

1 But at that time shall Michael rise up, the great prince, who standeth for the children of thy people: and a time shall come such as never was from the time that nations began even until that time. And at that time shall thy people be saved, every one that shall be found written in the book.
In this quote you take a giant leap, and conclude that because Joshua bowed to the angel that the angel must be God.

Finally your quote from Joshua:
13 And when Josue was in the field of the city of Jericho, he lifted up his eyes, and saw a man standing over against him: holding a drawn sword, and he went to him, and said: Art thou one of ours, or of our adversaries? 14 And he answered: No: but I am prince of the host of the Lord, and now I am come. 15 Josue fell on his face to the ground. And worshipping, add: What saith my lord to his servant?

My Bible says this concerning your quote from Joshua
14 “Prince of the host of the Lord”… St. Michael, who is called prince of the people of Israel, Dan. 10. 21.
15 “Worshipping”… Not with divine honour, but with a religious veneration of an inferior kind, suitable to the dignity of his person.

Michael is called the prince of his people, not the King of Kings!
 
Hi, Cinette,

This sounds like an ‘up-grade’ to me! 😃

Seriously, with so many clearly written words - how these distortions not only appear, but are believed strikes me as clear examples of how the Gates of Hell has not lost its punch.

God bless
Cinette said:
This is GOOFY !!

:eek:
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Hi, Catdan,
Catdan said:
oh it must be that closed mind syndrome that we have!!!:confused:
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I think you do yourself a significant disservice by dismissing this criticism with name calling. Honest - the ‘evidence’ you presents, proves nothing. Yet, God proclaims Christ to be His Son at the Baptism of Christ by John, and Christ tells us that He and the Father are One. This truly flys in the face of the very basis of our belief as Christians.

Do yourself a favor and look at the entire NT - Christ tells those who hear Him that if they do not believe Him - believe in the miracles He has performed. The OT prophesies point to Christ and Christ carries forward with the salvation of all mankind by His Cross and Resurrection.

Ultimately, either Christ is True God and True Man or we all have been truly very foolish - or the most foolish of all men as St. Paul would phrase it. Michael is a wonderful angel and one who has served God most faithfully - but, Michael is a mere creature and not God.

God bless
 
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