Seventh-day Sabbath Questions And Answers

[pjn6444]

In regards to arguements of the Seventh day adventist. They argue that Saturday is the true Sabbath. Much is inaccurate about this statement. The Jews of the OT celebrated the Sabbath on Saturday (kind of). They celebrated from sundown friday to sundown saturday. This was also on a lunar calendar. However, Pope Gregory changed the calendar. So the modern saturday is not the ancient saturday. If any of you are familiar with Russian history the Russians did not change the calendar until the 20th century. So, the proper day to celebrate is Sunday. Becuase a Pope changed it to Sunday and a Pope changed the calendar. So since both of those were decissions made by Catholics, and since they go together Sunday is the right day. If people such as the Seventh Day Adventists wish to be more OT (like the Judahizers from Paul’s letter to the Galatians) they need to do more homework.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard,
The Sabbath, even according to extra Biblical Jewish writings, was not instituted for anyone until the Exodus. I would recommend doing a study on the Seven Laws of Noah, you will notice that the Sabbath is not mentioned. This is why in Ex. 16, Moses had to explain to them what a Sabbath was…what it meant… and what they could do and not do. There is simply no mention of any person keeping the Sabbath until the Jews were commanded to keep it in Exodus. Likewise, we do not see one single command for mankind to keep the Sabbath before the Jews were commanded to keep it in Exodus. The idea that the Sabbath was given to mankind in Genesis is a man made belief not supported by scripture. Even if we did accept it, it would prove little… for sacrifices were also commanded in Genesis, but alas, we don’t sacrifice animals any more either.

What we also never find in scripture is ANYONE being commanded to keep the Sabbath after the resurrection. It simply is not there. Did Paul preach on the Jewish Sabbath… sure… but to read into this act, that Paul was observing the Jewish Sabbath is again, a man made belief. If your pastor, or you yourself, went to a park where people often gathered and preached for 78 Sundays to the people there, would this mean that you are keeping Sunday holy? Of course not.

What we do find in scripture is that after the cross, the Church was given the authority to teach the gospel… The Sabbath Day was not part of this gospel. Most of their teaching was done orally, and those who received it, have told us that they worshipped the risen Lord on Sunday.

Finally… Hebrews 4 tells us that there “remains a rest/Sabbath” (not a Sabbath Day), this comment would be superflous if it was not commonly understood that the Sabbath day, which most Hebrews understood to be the rest, had not been done away with. The earthly rest given in the Sabbath, was a foreshadowing of the spiritual rest we would find only when Christ completed his life here on Earth. That rest has now come, we can embrace what Christ did for us on the cross, and there is no reason to hold onto the Sabbath Day which foreshadowed the Sabbath rest in Christ!

Gen. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Here it is you can accept it or reject it like any other part of the bible. Of couse Moses had to explain the sabbath to them. They had been slaves in Egypt for over four hundred years. Animal sacrifices were part of the Levitical sanctuary system which pointed to Jesus. Hence, John the Baptist saying when he first saw Jesus “Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sns of the world”.
You mention Ex 16 in which Moses explains what the sabbath is. This is before the sabbath commandment was given in Ex.20 so how would he know?

We are not commanded to keep the sabbath after the resurrection because we already have the ten commandments. These laws were both spoken by the mouth of God and written in stone to signify there permanence.
Are you seriously contending that Gods moral law is not part of the gospel?

It’s interesting that you bring up Heb.4. It says verse 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. The only sabbath that we need is the sabbath that God gave us. Any other day is following after the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Yours in Christ Richard

 

[SDA2RC]

Gen. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.Here it is you can accept it or reject it like any other part of the bible.

I agree with that passage completely… God rested on one day, the last day of his creation. He did not command a Sabbath to be kept for mankind, or mention resting weekly, or a reoccuring Sabbath. The entire figure of God resting is for our benefit… How can an infinite being rest. I totally accept this passage, I just don’t add man made beliefs to it… for example, that this is the institution of a weekly Sabbath binding upon all men. The text just doesnt say that.

Of couse Moses had to explain the sabbath to them. They had been slaves in Egypt for over four hundred years.

I understand your argument here, because I used to think the same thing… but on what are you basing your beliefs that because the Jews had been in slavery that they had lost the word Sabbath from their vocabulary? I have heard before, similar to what you have said, that because they had been slaves, that God had to teach them everything over again, and reinstitute the Sabbath. There is only one problem with this… scripture does not support it. It is an man made belief designed to get around the fact that the Sabbath is never mentioned and Moses had to teach them what it was.

Animal sacrifices were part of the Levitical sanctuary system which pointed to Jesus.

Richard, sacrifices predate the levitical sanctuary system. Cain and Abel offered sacrifices centuries and centuries before the Levitical law was in place… The Sabbath was also a levitical practice, pointing forward to the saving work of Christ which allows us to enter the ultimate spiritual and corporal rest. This is why we never hear of it in scripture before Exodus and never again after Christ resurrected.
Y

ou mention Ex 16 in which Moses explains what the sabbath is. This is before the sabbath commandment was given in Ex.20 so how would he know?.

As I am sure you know… God spoke to Moses directly… scripture says that he explained the concept to him when discussing Manna. This is how He introduced the Sabbath to the Israelites.

Continued

 

[SDA2RC]

We are not commanded to keep the sabbath after the resurrection because we already have the ten commandments.

Two things:

1. Even though God had given the 10 Commandments to the Israelites, the NT still repeats the laws of the New Covenant which were also part of the 10 Commandments. If your reasoning above were correct… we would never see anything about adultery, killing, lying, coveting, lusting, etc. after the death of Christ, because they are already covered in the 10 Commandments. However, we do see these things, which were part of the Old Covenant, reiterated as part of the New Covenant, therefore your explanation above does not make sense Biblically or logically.
2. Scripture is clear that the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant. This means that the 10 Commandments and the rest of the Mosiac law are not binding on Christians. We are bound by the New Covenant, which contains many of the same laws as the Old Covenant, and many are not the same.

Now… I know that Adventists do not believe that the Ten Commandments was part of the Old Covenant, so let me show you my reasoning:

Scripture clearly equates the 10 Commandments with the old Covenant, in fact they are called the words of the covenant in:
(Exo 34:28 NASB) So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablet’s the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Again we see that:
(Deu 9:11 NASB) "And it came about at the end of forty days and nights that the LORD gave me the two tablet’s of stone, the tablet’s of the covenant.

There are several other passages we could go into about this… but suffice to say, scripture says:
(Heb 8:13 NASB) **When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. **But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
Scripture calls the 10 Commandments the Covenant, (even thought Adventists reject this idea), and scripture says that the old covenant is obsolete. Therefore, the 10 Commandments as part of the Old Covenant are abolished. Now, the New Covenant includes many of the same laws, but the Sabbath is not one of them. The Church however, continues to use the 10 Commandments as a rule of morality, but not as a salvific law.

These laws were both spoken by the mouth of God and written in stone to signify there permanence. Are you seriously contending that Gods moral law is not part of the gospel?

I was also told that because the 10 commandments were written in stone and spoken by God that it meant they were more permanent. I found however, that again, this was a man made teaching of the Adventist Church, without any scriptural support. In scripture you will not find a different permanence concept depending on the medium by which the message was delivered from God. ANYTHING given by God, no matter the mode of transmission is divine and holy. Just because it is in a rock, doesnt increase the value, it’s value comes from God.

If by moral law you mean the Mosaic laws, such as the levitical and 10 Commandments, then abolutely I am saying that. For God Himself inspired the writer to call the 10 Commandments the “ministry of death”.
(2 Cor 3:7 NASB) But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones**, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,**
(2 Cor 3:8 NASB) how shall the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

Why would I try to hold onto the 10 Commandments when we have been given the ministry of the Spirit, which scripture here says is soo much better? I do not think that the Gospel message includes the “ministry of death”… why would you?

Continued

 

[SDA2RC]

It’s interesting that you bring up Heb.4. It says verse 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. The only sabbath that we need is the sabbath that God gave us. Any other day is following after the commandments of men.

I am not sure how you got your interpretation from this passage… lets take a look at in in context shall we?

We see that the rest being spoken of here is not the Sabbath rest… It is spoken of as “entereing his rest” not keeping a day holy. We enter the rest by belief, not physically ceasing from work. (v 4:3) Those who do not enter the rest, do not enter it because of unbelief, not because they refuse to keep working.
Vs. 7 tells us that the day in which they would have entered the rest with David was on the day they were invited to believe
he again defineth a certain day, saying in David, after so long a time, Today, as it hath been before said, Today if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.
. It had nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath.

Then we get to the verse you quote above… here the write is showing that the people didn’t enter into the rest which JOSHUA offered them… Again, no mention of a weekly Sabbath.

I think it is important that the belief that the Sabbath was only for the Israelites did not originate with Christianity, it oringated by the Jews themselves. This is how THEY understood the Sabbath. In fact, a gentile who kept the Sabbath could be put to death. The 2nd Century BC Book of Julbilee’s says: “…And the Creator of all things blessed it, but he did not sanctify all peoples and nations to keep Sabbath thereon, but Israel alone…” (2:31)
We have the testimony of scripture that shows us that the Sabbath wa given specifically to the Jews.
We have the Testimony of the Jews that the Sabbath was given specifically to the Israelites.
We have the Testimony of the Church, from the Apostles on down, that say that the Sabbath was given to the Israelites alone.

This is why we worship the risen Christ on the Lords Day.

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Yours in Christ Richard

I am glad you quoted this… because this is exactly my concern with Adventism. As I have pointed out, Adventists have had to come up with many man made teachings or tradition by which to try to maintain their belief system. Scripture also says that scripture is not given for private interpretation, but this is exactly what has happened in Adventism. The bible write warns us of the results of this:

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Happy Lords Day!

 

[PaulDupre]

Worship on The Lord’s Day (Sunday) rather than the Sabbath (Saturday) was determined by the apostles and practiced universally in the early church.

See the CA article here.

God bless,
Paul

 

[Protestant101]

I. The 2nd Century BC Book of Julbilee’s says: “…And the Creator of all things blessed it, but he did not sanctify all peoples and nations to keep Sabbath thereon, but Israel alone…” (2:31)

We have the testimony of scripture that shows us that the Sabbath wa given specifically to the Jews.
We have the Testimony of the Jews that the Sabbath was given specifically to the Israelites.

We have the Testimony of the Church, from the Apostles on down, that say that the Sabbath was given to the Israelites alone.

This is why we worship the risen Christ on the Lords Day.

I am glad you quoted this… because this is exactly my concern with Adventism. As I have pointed out, Adventists have had to come up with many man made teachings or tradition by which to try to maintain their belief system. Scripture also says that scripture is not given for private interpretation, but this is exactly what has happened in Adventism. The bible write warns us of the results of this:

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Happy Lords Day!

Thankyou! Of course, “the Lord’s Day” is the seventh-day Sabbath, so I presume you will be supportive of what I am about to say?

It’s almost a bit funny the way you keep trying to whip us “poor” Adventists with Scripture; for “The Book Of Jubilees” you quoted above is not “Scripture;” and aside from the last scripture you quoted; none of the rest has the applications you say it does, to the seventh-day Sabbath** “of the Lord Thy God.”** The Bible never once calls it “The Jewish Sabbath;” it is always “the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.”

To say that it was only given to the Jews is to deny your own Catholic teachings which actually admits that the seventh day, (Saturday) is still the Sabbath.

Hmmm; I guess if all ten of those commandments are “Old Covenant” then that means adultery is included? No wonder both Protestant and Catholic Christians can’t leave their neighbour’s wives alone!

 

[Milliardo]

First of all are you reading all of what I am writing? If you take Gen.2:1-3, Ex.20:11 and Luke 23:52-24-1 There is no question that the Sabbath is on Saturday.

There is no evidence either in Genesis nor in Exodus that the Sabbath falls on a Saturday. Genesis is vague on that score; it only mentions six days of creation, and a seventh day of rest. We are not told what day God started creation and on what day He ended it. Ditto for Exodus–we are only shown to observe the Sabbath. Again, no specific mention when it should be observed. is it a Saturday, Sunday, Monday, etc.? In Luke, we already see an established tradition; note again that in the preceding passages you stated, there was no mention when it should be observed. The only thing we were shown is we should observe it.

It’s interesting that you say the ten commandments are for the Jews only. Are you saying that as a Catholic you are not bound by God’s law and where is that made clear?

No, my point is that when the Law was made, it was only made for the Jews. Although we are bound by it in one way or the other, we are not bound totally by the Mosaic Law, which would include the observance of a Saturday Sabbath (as opposed to observance of Sabbath–there’s a difference there, as you would notice by now).

I noticed you don’t say anything about Heb.9:16,17

Hebrews 9:16-17 talks about Jesus; read the preceding passages which points to Him. Where did you get the impression that it even points to the Sabbath or the entire Mosaic Law?

and Gal.3:15.

If we take this to your own notion, then every law made must not be amended, since to amend a law would break this verse. Jesus, in fact, would be the first transgressor of this, according to your notion of this verse. But note that Paul speaks about the human will, not the Law. Again, where did you get the impression that this would even correspond to the Mosaic Law? Weak, very weak arguments for the Saturday Sabbath here./font]

 

[Protestant101]

There is no evidence either in Genesis nor in Exodus that the Sabbath falls on a Saturday. Genesis is vague on that score; it only mentions six days of creation, and a seventh day of rest. We are not told what day God started creation and on what day He ended it. Ditto for Exodus–we are only shown to observe the Sabbath. Again, no specific mention when it should be observed. is it a Saturday, Sunday, Monday, etc.? In Luke, we already see an established tradition; note again that in the preceding passages you stated, there was no mention when it should be observed. The only thing we were shown is we should observe it.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made

It says very clearly “the seventh day” here THREE TIMES!

And “the seventh-day” was not just “a day of rest” for God as you say; atleast not physical rest. The Bible says there in Genesis that God “blessed and sanctified” the seventh day…not “a” seventh day; but THE seventh day.

It is so easy to do as you have and deny the seventh day, (Saturday) is the Sabbath, by isolating the text in Genesis from the clear teachings on “the seventh day” in The New Testament:

The Scriptures leave no doubt as to what day of the week it is on any given day; especially for the Sabbath. Why would God tells us to “remember” The Sabbath" if it was something we could never be sure of in terms of which day it was?

Luk 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
Luk 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
Luk 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luk 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Luk 24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
Luk 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
Luk 24:5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
Luk 24:6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

Everyone knows that Jesus was crucified on Friday - that’s where Catholics get “Good Friday” from. The Bible calls Friday “the preparation day” in Luke 23: 54 above. Then in Luke 23:54-6 it says clearly that the next day; after the preparation day, (Friday), was indeed “the Sabbath;” and the women tending to the body of Jesus, still, at that time, after Jesus’ death, “rested on the Sabbath.” (note 24:56 above).

You deny even Catholic teaching by saying we don’t know what days God did what for Creation. The Bible continues in Luke 24 to tell us how that the day following the day after “The Preparation day” was "the first day."

Would you deny that this “first day” was Sunday? Would you deny that this third day, the day of the resurrection, was Sunday? The Catholic Church would never support your weak arguments here!! In fact, the Catholic Church makes fervent appeal to “Tradition” and “church authority” for their act of tranferring the day of worship, from Saturday to Sunday." It is on the basis of the alleged authority of Tradition and Magisterium that your Church appeals to for this change; not on the supposed basis that we cannot possibly know what day was what; and they will still tell you today how that Saturday is still the seventh-day Sabbath; but they don’t keep that anymore.

You better turn the lights on!!

 

[Milliardo]

It says very clearly “the seventh day” here THREE TIMES!

Note–we are only told of the seventh day; we are not sure what that seventh day is. Can you glean from Genesis that the seventh day is Saturday? Not a chance. It is not recorded. There is no record even what day God started creation; for all we know, it could have been a Saturday, which would stand on tis head the belief then that God rested on a Saturday. But that aside, please show us where exactly is it stated the seventh day to be a Saturday.

And “the seventh-day” was not just “a day of rest” for God as you say; atleast not physical rest. The Bible says there in Genesis that God “blessed and sanctified” the seventh day…not “a” seventh day; but THE seventh day.

Yes, we’ve been through that; please show us then where is the exact verse that says it is on a Saturday, or the Jewish equivalent of Saturday.

It is so easy to do as you have and deny the seventh day, (Saturday) is the Sabbath, by isolating the text in Genesis from the clear teachings on “the seventh day” in The New Testament

Because between Genesis, Exodus up to the New Testament, we have not been told what the exact day Sabbath is. We only glean it from Luke, but that is about a few thousands of years of gap from the time Exodus was written until Luke was written–a very great amount of time to establish Saturday as a tradition. So, from the few Biblical passages that we have already studied, where again is the specific passage that it is a Saturday? Please, I am waiting for that specific verse. We are of course referring to the time the Sabbath was established, not the time when the Saturday tradition was established. Note again that there is a difference between the two.
:

Everyone knows that Jesus was crucified on Friday - that’s where Catholics get “Good Friday” from. The Bible calls Friday “the preparation day” in Luke 23: 54 above. Then in Luke 23:54-6 it says clearly that the next day; after the preparation day, (Friday), was indeed “the Sabbath;” and the women tending to the body of Jesus, still, at that time, after Jesus’ death, “rested on the Sabbath.” (note 24:56 above).

Yes–again, as noted, by the time of Jesus, the Saturday Sabbath was already an established tradition. So we go back to the beginning–where can we find that God specifically tells the Sabbath to be held on a Saturday? No proof, no dice. You’ll simply have to argue that it was observed in Jesus’ time but have no inkling as to what day God really intends the Sabbath to be held.

You deny even Catholic teaching by saying we don’t know what days God did what for Creation. The Bible continues in Luke 24 to tell us how that the day following the day after “The Preparation day” was "the first day."

I;m sorry–you do not seem to know what you’re saying here. Where in Catholic teaching do you find that there was a specific day God started creation?

Would you deny that this “first day” was Sunday? Would you deny that this third day, the day of the resurrection, was Sunday?

Again, we mark those days following Jewish tradition; the Church simply followed the marking of days of the Lord’s death and resurrection based on the held tradition at His time. We are not talking about that; we are disputing what was the specific day the Lord said to observe the Sabbath with–tradition be barred. You’ve already presented the passages–now where in the Old Testament can we find the specific instruction of God to observe the Sabbath on a Saturday? Again, note the progression from the Old Testament to the New, and the large gap from Exodus to Luke–plenty of time to establish that tradition of a Saturday Sabbath, but no clue as to where the specified day God instructed the Sabbath to be observed. As you can see, the point is simple: if there is a specific time that God commanded the Sabbath to be observed, then the Church has no right to abolish the Saturday Sabbath. No specific time, then it is open to have the Sabbath moved and thus free Christians from observing the Mosaic Law. It’s a very simple challenge–find the specific passage where we are commanded to observe Saturday as the Sabbath.

 

[Protestant101]

Note–we are only told of the seventh day; we are not sure what that seventh day is.

I guess that no body is sure of the other six days either. If it’s like that for the seventh-day; then it’s like that for the rest.

On what basis do you deny that the seventh-day is Saturday?

Hmmm; if it’s just because you don’t see the word “Saturday” in the book of Genesis, then you are barking up the wrong tree for sure.

The word “Eucharist” isn’t anywhere in Genesis either; yet you believe in that.

If it says “the seventh day” in Genesis; and if the new testament clearly shows that the preparation day was the day before Sabbath; and the day after the sabbath was “the first day;” then how can you deny that the sabbath is “the seventh-day.”

Why did God choose to create the world in six evening and morning days?

He could have spoken the world into being in a moment - in the twinkling of an eye.

But he took six twenty-four-hour days to complete creation.
He, who knows the end from the beginning, for known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world - Acts 15:18 - chose to measure time in this manner.

God created the world in six days and He rested on the seventh day: Thus setting an eternal precedent to be followed by mankind - Ex. 20:8-11; Heb. 4:9, 10. That fact alone makes the seventh day of the week God’s rest day forever - Eccl. 3:14. T
The rest of the Creator on the seventh day marks the time of beginning for our perpetual weekly cycle. This is a fact to keep in mind as we study the creation Sabbath. The week has always been measured by the Sabbath - Compare Ex. 16:3-28 with Ezek. 46:1; Ex. 20:8-11.

This measurement of time has been recognized by people everywhere since the very beginning of civilization. The Catholic Church and “Tradition” has nothing to do with it.

You need to study Catholic teachings better; even I know you are denying them here. Catholics who know their teachings well have no trouble saying that the seventh-day sabbath is Saturday:

Tradition and Living Magisterium

From Original Catholic Encyclopedia; published between 1907 and 1914

Tradition (Greek paradosis) in the ecclesiastical sense–which is the only one in which it is used here–refers sometimes to the thing (doctrine, account, or custom) transmitted from one generation to another, sometimes to the organ or mode of the transmission

Holy Scripture is therefore not the only theological source of the Revelation made by God to His Church. Side by side with Scripture there is tradition, side by side with the written revelation there is the oral revelation. This granted, it is impossible to be satisfied with the Bible alone for the solution of all dogmatic questions. Such was the first field of controversy between Catholic theologians and the reformers. The designation of unwritten Divine traditions was not always given all the clearness desirable, especially in early times; however Catholic controversialists soon proved to the Protestants that to be logical and consistent they must admit unwritten traditions as revealed. Otherwise by what right did they rest on Sunday and not on Saturday?
forums.catholic-questions.org/oce/

According to Catholic teachings, you should have no trouble admitting which day is the Sabbath; for Catholic teachings do not appeal to this question to support Sunday observance.

 

[Milliardo]

I guess that no body is sure of the other six days either. If it’s like that for the seventh-day; then it’s like that for the rest.

If nobody is sure, then why insist on a Saturday Sabbath?

On what basis do you deny that the seventh-day is Saturday?

On the basis that there is no specific day the Lord said to honour the Sabbath. He only prescribed to honour it; He did not prescribe the specific day to honour it. The difference is there.

The word “Eucharist” isn’t anywhere in Genesis either; yet you believe in that.

No, but we can see the inference of it from Scripture; Jesus Himself taught it. Did Jesus teach us that the Sabbath is a Saturday then? Or Moses, for that matter?

If it says “the seventh day” in Genesis; and if the new testament clearly shows that the preparation day was the day before Sabbath; and the day after the sabbath was “the first day;” then how can you deny that the sabbath is “the seventh-day.”

There is no denial that the Sabbath is the seventh day; you confuse this with the Sabbath is on a Saturday. We must first have proof that the seventh day is Saturday before we can say the Sabbath must be on a Saturday. Again, where can we glean that the Sabbath is on a Saturday, apart from what Luke infers, which already as we have seen, by then an established Jewish tradition?

Why did God choose to create the world in six evening and morning days?

Baseless; you are drawing the argument away from the Sabbath must be on a Saturday to creation, which again as we have seen does not specify what days did God began creation, and what day He ended it. To focus the argument on that point, I will fudge over your points about creation, which has little bearing on the discussion since even you admit yourself that nobody is sure as to what days did God began and ended creation. Note again we are only given that there were six days of creation and a seventh day of rest–again, you will still have to provide where we can find the exact days that God began creation and the day He ended it.

This measurement of time has been recognized by people everywhere since the very beginning of civilization.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but different ancient civilizations marked their days differently; it wasn’t a fixed seven day week as we know it.

You need to study Catholic teachings better; even I know you are denying them here. Catholics who know their teachings well have no trouble saying that the seventh-day sabbath is Saturday

Apart from the last sentence, nowhere is it stated that Catholic teaching recognizes that the Sabbath is Saturday or that we should celebrate the Sabbath on a Saturday. Now, note that Catholics are not saying that the Jews did not celebrate the Sabbath on a Saturday, nor are we not to keep the Sabbath; that is a given. But what is contentious is whether it is a God-given prerogative that the Sabbath should be a Saturday. So, where again can we see that God specifically stated that Saturday must be the Sabbath? We are going off the issue here. But, let us have a little bit more fun here: if what you contend is true, that we must keep a Saturday Sabbath (as opposed to merely keeping the Sabbath), then are Seventh-Day Adventists also bound to keep the whole of the Mosaic Law, like sin offerings, animal sacrifice, the Jewish feasts and how they should be celebrated, etc.? If you do not do all these, then by what right do you have to keep the Saturday Sabbath when you do not even keep the rest of the Mosaic Law, many of which can be found in Leviticus? Do your ministers, for instance, keep the Levitical priesthood and its vestments? See, if you say you keep the Saturday Sabbath, then surely you must also keep the rest of the Mosaic Law, including the animal sacrifices and blood offerings for the atonement of sins. But if you do not keep them, what is your basis for not doing so? Why do you then say that mainline Christians are not obedient with God when the God-given Laws that He made are not kept by you as well? Do you think there is a double standard somewhere?

 

[St_Violet]

What do the SDA’s feel about the early church fathers?
I always thought that the early church was evidence that the Jewish Sabbath was no longer required

Also would like to enlighten other is that another reason why the Seventh Day Adventist believe there was a 10 commandments was because Cain sined, and that there was idolatry , adultry before the 10 commandments.

the way I looked at it was that God saw that people heart’s were harden and going the opposite direction so GOD had to establish a law.

 

[Protestant101]

What do the SDA’s feel about the early church fathers?
I always thought that the early church was evidence that the Jewish Sabbath was no longer required

Also would like to enlighten other is that another reason why the Seventh Day Adventist believe there was a 10 commandments was because Cain sined, and that there was idolatry , adultry before the 10 commandments.

the way I looked at it was that God saw that people heart’s were harden and going the opposite direction so GOD had to establish a law.

Well; for starters, it is not once called “The Jewish Sabbath;” in the Bible. It is always referred to as “the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.”

 

[St_Violet]

Well; for starters, it is not once called “The Jewish Sabbath;” in the Bible. It is always referred to as “the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.”

I suppose so, but let’s not forget that it was given to them (The Jews) but after the Death of Christ and the ressurection (The Lord’s Day aka The Christian Sabbath") , a new covenant was established, but this time it is universal.

 

[w_stewart]

I don’t get why Catholocism would have authority to make such a change in the observance of the day. To me, the whole essence of the commandment is tied up within the “seventh-day” concepts mentioned in the Bible. The 6 different meeting the Apostles had on Sunday don’t actually say anything about changing the day, or changing the observance thereof.

The Bible does not mention that the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week. During the time when the Pentateuch was written, the name “Saturday” was still inexistent then. It is baseless to argue that the seventh day was Saturday and there is no evidence that the day of Sabbath mentioned in the Bible was indeed Saturday.

 

[Protestant101]

I suppose so, but let’s not forget that it was given to them (The Jews) but after the Death of Christ and the ressurection (The Lord’s Day aka The Christian Sabbath") , a new covenant was established, but this time it is universal.

Hmm; I guess if you are going to give the Sabbath just to the Jews; you have to give some of the other things God created to them too. Seems to me that Jesus was a Jew; and “if you wanna go to heaven; you gonna be a Jew too.”

 

[Protestant101]

The Bible does not mention that the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week. During the time when the Pentateuch was written, the name “Saturday” was still inexistent then. It is baseless to argue that the seventh day was Saturday and there is no evidence that the day of Sabbath mentioned in the Bible was indeed Saturday.

As I demonstrated above; the Bible does tell us exactly which day is which. It tells us when preparation day is, which we know to be Friday; the day Jesus died, was the day after; the Bible called it “the Sabbath;” and the third day, the day of the resurrection, the Bible calls “the first day.” (which people every where know to be Sunday. Sunday is the first day; so Saturday must be the seventh; and “preparation day” must be the sixth, or Friday. (see Luke 23 & 24)

Your own Church does teach that the Sabbath is the seventh-day, Saturday; so how baseless do you say all that is? It is pointless to argue about the Sabbath not being on the seventh-day for this is something both sides have agreed upon for centuries. You might want to check out the ask an apologist section and other references here.

 

[mozart-250]

Hello Protestant101…something to think about is that the specific “day” which is to be observed as “THE Seventh Day” is not intrinsic to the Sabbath Command. In other words, as far as we can tell from the Natural Law and/or from God’s Written Revelations to us, any “seventh day” following six days of labor would have sufficed.

The argument among Sabbath Keepers is that “Saturday” is the only day that suffices…but how do we know when “saturday” arrives? While it may be assumed (based on a ‘tradition’ which cannot be verified by any independant ‘scriptural’ critera) that Saturday in Israel is the “true seventh day”…whether or not the day we observe as “saturday” on the opposite side of the earth from Israel is the same “seventh day” simply cannot be demonstrated for nowhere in Scripture has God revealed “the date line”.

See: A History of the International Date Line
at phys.uu.nl/~vgent/idl/idl.htm

Depending on where the date line is established, “Sundown Friday evening in Israel” can either be “sunrise Friday morning in North America” (if the seventh day occurs first in Israel) or “sunrise Saturday morning in North America” (if the seventh day occurs first in North America).

Assuming that Israel observes the “true” seventh day - how does mankind on the opposite side of the earth know whether their observance of the seventh day follows or precedes that of Israel?

Does our salvation by Grace from Christ depend upon getting this question right? If it does then how are we to infallibly obtain the information needed?

…and then there’s the problem of observing “THE Seventh day” by those people who live in the northern-most reaches of the earth where for months during the summer the sun never sets below the horizon and for months during the winter the sun never rises above the horizon. How are these people to know “when” the Sabbath rest is to be observed since from Scripture a day is measured from “sunset to sunset”?

See: The Sabbath on a Round Earth
churchofgodcarmichael.org/sabbath/Sabbath6.html

Keep the Faith
jmt

This post illustrates why it is wide to read a thread before actually commenting on it.

It does seem to me that if God prescribed the seventh day (working on that assumption for now) I would have to know what the first day is. Here we have a number of problems:

(1) Whose first day.

My calendar says the first day of the week is Sunday. My company says the first day of a work week is Saturday. Psycologically the first day of the week seems to me (working a normal 5 day week) to be Monday. However this is just a cultural convention. What is to prevent our culture from suddenly deciding the first day of the week is Tuesday. The only reason I can think of is there is no need to do this. However, do I know that every culture on the face of the planet has a first day of Sunday.

In other words I do not know whether everybody has a common first day of the week. Furthermore, I have no idea what the first day of the week may be in the past. So the question in my mind is whose first day?

(2) Calendar changes

But I do know that the first day of the week is not the same first day of the week in the time of Christ. The calendar was adjusted I think by 10 or 11 days in the 1700s or so due to various inaccuracies. Does this mean that the first day is now Wednesday or Thursday? Do I know that God gave his church the right to cheat the week this calendar adjustment was made? What if God’s calendar was not adjusted? Then we are all hosed.

The above post also made excellent comments about the time zone problem and the above the arctic circle problem.

The net here is that I begin with the assumption that it is very important that I observe the sabbath as the seventh day of the week, I have a big problem. I don’t know what God’s first day of the week is with absolute certainty, let alone what God’s seventh day is. If our eternal salvation rests on the dependency that we must know with absolute certainty what God’s first day of the week is, then I am afraid we all are in big trouble.

 

[St_Violet]

Hmm; I guess if you are going to give the Sabbath just to the Jews; you have to give some of the other things God created to them too. Seems to me that Jesus was a Jew; and “if you wanna go to heaven; you gonna be a Jew too.”

as I said, the Old covenant and the 10 commandments were first established and given to the Jews after Moses freed them
Deuteronomy 5:3 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

And it makes sense that Jesus was a Jew, if he was a gentile, his teachings would not have the same level of impact towards soceity.
He came to establish a new promise, a new beginning and a new covenant, with all this he has redefined the 10 commandments, for instance.

1 commandment: You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and the great commandment" (Mat 22:37)

“You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve” (Mat 4:10). "

Murder : You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder’, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" (Mat 5:21-22).

Adultery : “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery’. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart”

Christ established a covenant that is Universal
Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be preached to all nations

As for the Sabbath, Since Sunday is the event that a new beginning/creation has taken place, Sunday then has become possible to practice the 4th/3rd commandment Luke 24