M
Maria1212
Guest
God didn
t just drop it out of the sky, leather-bound, published and all ready to go! Id be happy to start a new thread on the history of the Bible if you are interested.Sincerely,
Maria1212
- Status
Sincerely,
Maria1212
S
St_Violet
Guest
Your going to have to be honest and realize that it was the authority of the Catholic Church that decided and determined there would be a bible and also selected which books were considered inspired by the Authority of the Church. the books in the bible you study from is there because the Authority of the Catholic Church decided that it should be there.
And of course the Church was influence by God but none the less, your just going to have to wake up and accept the facts. you comming from a seventh day adventist church, I understand how difficult it is for you to accept the influence the Church’s Authority had on the bible you base all of you beliefs on, especialy being that the SDA Church is very anti-catholic and feel much better simply choosing to believe that the bible fell down from heaven.
S
St_Violet
Guest
Church’s authority is biblical as I pointed out in the council of jerusalem, Ignatius of Antioch embracing Sunday is fact.This is exactly what I thought would be said; but all it is is claims - without Bible evidence. “Church authority” is claimed by many, to excuse all manner of disobedience to God’s commands. You haven’t convinced me yet.
I will acept the authority of the Bible; which in this topic does differ from the “authority” of the Catholic Church. The Apostles did in fact rely on Biblical principles for all that you claim above; and we should follow their example today - including their Sabbath-keeping.
D
Delraek
Guest
Hi Protestant 101 & Richard,
I posted a thread a while back with some questions for Adventists and I’m not thoroughly satisfied with the answers I received. Would either of you be willing to answer them?
Here’s the link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=198998
Thanks!
I posted a thread a while back with some questions for Adventists and I’m not thoroughly satisfied with the answers I received. Would either of you be willing to answer them?
Here’s the link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=198998
Thanks!
J
Joel1984
Guest
Protestant101Hmm; it would sure be nice if you would wait for ME to say whether or not I can “handle” this “discussion”. I would much rather discuss the subject with someone who seems interested, regardless of their level of study on the subject. It is good if we have the attitude that we can learn from others.
You say that you are a former SDA, so there is a lot of basic info which you are already familiar with; but there is one point which you have not addressed too well yet, and that is about Sunday, and how/why it has become “the Lord’s Day” to the Catholics and many Protestants.
The “apologists” at this forum, as well as other of Catholic Theologians, including the Pope, have all stated that there is no authority in the Bible for changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday; and the sole authority for this change is admitted to be by the “power of the Catholic Church” and while they are careful to say they did not really change the Sabbath - only the day of worship, they are giving away their total lack of understanding of the Sabbath, and what God intends out of it.
Catholic’s own doctrines and the Catechism describe this whole issue as one of “authority;” and how there is no Biblical admonition to make this change. It is solely by the “authority” of the Catholic Church that this change was made, and many Protestants even bow to this “authority.” To the Catholic, this whole Sunday-Sabbath question needs to be one of their own church’s authority - for everytime they try to come up with Bible reasons, they fail miserably to produce anything convincing.
I suppose that it would flatter your mighty apologetics ego to think that you can shut up all the Protestants, and silence them with your theological prowess; but I for one still await conclusive evidence from the Bible that I should accept ANY authority that made this change from Sabbath to Sunday; except God’s.
Every day should be a day of worship to Jesus! To say that you have changed “the day of worship” is to totally miss the point God makes with His children about this wonderful doctrine. The Sabbath is not described as just “a day of worship;” it is much more than this. It is a sign of God’s authority. I believe His authority to be higher than any Church, and His authority is in His written Word. If there is some “Tradition” which defies this written authority - then it is not biblical.
Wait for you to see whether you can handle the discussion? I’ve been waiting for you since I came to this forum. You have been real silent and have not made any effort to rebutt or refute any of my arguments. Richard gave it a go but then threw in the towel as expected. It’s not that I am smarter than you or Richard. It is that your postion is indefensable Protestant101. I’ve debated many SDA bible teachers and evangelists etc on Paltalk who also could not handle the discussion, but alot of them were more studied than myself and knew the scriptures better then me.
I have studied this issue somewhat but not have fully worked through all that goes with it. And as a former SDA I am all too familar with the proof texts that are used and the silly historic blunders made by the SDA church when it comes to this topic.
You expect me to answer your questions but you would not answer mine. hmmm. First off, I haven’t studied the signifcance of Sunday as the Lord’s Day that much at all and do not feel that any day is of importance. However the early christians came togother on the first day of the week. They did not “keep the first day” as SDA’s like to put it. I don’t think they kept the Lord’s Day as one would keep sabbath. They did not observe the day from sunset to sunset as most do not today. They simply came togother on that day for worship and fellowship. The earliest record of this is 74ad Protestant. A lot early than say 312ad as your church tries to say. And that reference comes to us from Barnabas. The same Barnabas as Acts 15.(this is disputed by some) So we have a record as early as 74ad that states christians came togother to worship on the first day of the week and it is called the “Lord’s Day.”
The next reference I believe would be the didache which was recorded around 80 or 90ad and so on and so forth. Is there an explict command in scripture for this change? No there is not. Just like there is no explict evidance in scripture of the trinity, 2 wills of Christ etc.
But Protestant101, my posts on this thread have been on the sabbath and the christian. I never brought up I don’t think, the sunday issue. I jumped into the debate on the sabbath and believe have adequetly delt with Richard’s and your arguments and my last couple posts I proved from Col 2:16 and Gal 4:10 that the sabbath is not for a christian under the new covenant…something which nethier you or Richard responded too.
You cannot respond so your giving me a red herring.
Christian regards
Joel Sexton
J
Joel1984
Guest
To Planter
Hey Planter, sorry I’m so late getting back to your posts. I see you asked me some questions about a week ago and I never noticed untill now when I was going through some of the previous posts. I’ll try to answer some of your posts now.
*[In regards to the Sabbath day which I believe it is Sat/I]
Agreed
This was done although God gave Adam this perpetual “command at creation” and has confirmed to us " My COVENANT WILL “I NOT’ BREAK”, NOR ALTER THE THING THAT IS GONE OUT OF MY LIPS" PSALMS 89:34 God is not a “LIAR”.
I assume you are saying that God gave Adam the sabbath in creation. God did no such thing. God ended his work on the seventh day. The seventh day was Adam and Eve’s first full day with God in the perfection garden of creation. What would they have to rest from BEFORE the fall? Nothing. This rest I believe was to be an on-going rest before the fall, a fellowship rest with His creation. God gave Adam and Eve different commands… “do not eat from the tree of good and evil” “be fruitful and multiply” but never did He command them to observe sabbath.
Ten Commandments-- And hallow my Sabbaths: and they shall be a sign between me and you that ye may know that I am the " LORD YOUR GOD" Is it not God who makes us “HOLY” ?*
The sabbath was to be a sign between God and ISREAL. Not you and me. The whole law of Moses was to be a sign (Deut 6; 11).
Jesus would “NEVER” break his Fathers command or his will! Jesus was obedient to his father’s command when he walked the earth did he not? Jesus ask us thou to be baptized!*
Agreed. Jesus kept the whole law and not part. He was born of a woman under the law (Gal4:4). You and I are not “under the law” Rom6:14; Gal3:23. We are not Isreal according to the flesh. The law and the covenants were giving to Isreal exclusivly (Rom 9:4).
Who were the people that were held in bondage when Jesus walked the earth?
The jews were (Acts 15; Gal 4:21-31).
I ask, if you are now saying that the sabbath no longer needs to be kept then why do we go to church? If you are saying that the sabbath day of the Lord is not important then why do we go to Church on Sunday?*
We go to church cause we are commanded not to forsake the assembling of ourselves togother untill the Lord returns (Heb 10).
I never said the sabbath was not important Paul did (Col 2:16; Gal4:10). Christians go to church on Sunday cause believers have since as early as 74 AD. As Gentilles did not observe the sabbath they decided to come togother on the first day of the week because of the resserection.
What do you think Paul is saying when he says, do you want to go back into bondage under mans authority do you think he is saying this?*
Paul makes it very clear as to what “bondage” is. Read Gal 4:21-31. The law is bondage he says. And no, not under mans authority but by Christ’s authority as Christ choose Paul to take the gospel to the gentilles (Acts 9). Whose authority was it that Peter, James and the church in Jerusalem said that gentilles did not have to be circumsied or observe the law?
Was not Moses mother a Hebrew slave? Slaves to whom? Are they not God’s choosen people.Were they not held in bondage with the rich at the top?
Yes the Hebrews were slaves to Pharoah and the Egyptians.
To keep his laws and commands is up to each one with no man telling you any different, do you think? Are we to please man or God?
God had many commandments. In the law there are about 613 commandments. Do you keep them planter? In the NT whatever the apostles or Jesus command are commandments we are to observe (Jn 14:15; Acts 1:2; 1Thess 4:2; 1Cor 14:37).
For God to write the Ten commandments with his own finger must be pretty important and to place them in the ark for do you not think in God’s time they will not bare witness against us? have we not heard? Have we not heard, have we not studied, have you not read Jesus said.
Who did God give the ten commandments to? You planter? Isreal maybe? We walk according to the spirit and not according to the letter says Paul 2 Cor3. The sabbath commandment is a cereimonal commandment not found in creation but given to the nation Isreal ONLY. The ten commandments were a witness. They are referred to as a testimony which in Hebrew means a witness. They were the words of the OLD covenant Ex 34:28.
Continued…*
Hey Planter, sorry I’m so late getting back to your posts. I see you asked me some questions about a week ago and I never noticed untill now when I was going through some of the previous posts. I’ll try to answer some of your posts now.
*[In regards to the Sabbath day which I believe it is Sat/I]
Agreed
This was done although God gave Adam this perpetual “command at creation” and has confirmed to us " My COVENANT WILL “I NOT’ BREAK”, NOR ALTER THE THING THAT IS GONE OUT OF MY LIPS" PSALMS 89:34 God is not a “LIAR”.
I assume you are saying that God gave Adam the sabbath in creation. God did no such thing. God ended his work on the seventh day. The seventh day was Adam and Eve’s first full day with God in the perfection garden of creation. What would they have to rest from BEFORE the fall? Nothing. This rest I believe was to be an on-going rest before the fall, a fellowship rest with His creation. God gave Adam and Eve different commands… “do not eat from the tree of good and evil” “be fruitful and multiply” but never did He command them to observe sabbath.
Ten Commandments-- And hallow my Sabbaths: and they shall be a sign between me and you that ye may know that I am the " LORD YOUR GOD" Is it not God who makes us “HOLY” ?*
The sabbath was to be a sign between God and ISREAL. Not you and me. The whole law of Moses was to be a sign (Deut 6; 11).
Jesus would “NEVER” break his Fathers command or his will! Jesus was obedient to his father’s command when he walked the earth did he not? Jesus ask us thou to be baptized!*
Agreed. Jesus kept the whole law and not part. He was born of a woman under the law (Gal4:4). You and I are not “under the law” Rom6:14; Gal3:23. We are not Isreal according to the flesh. The law and the covenants were giving to Isreal exclusivly (Rom 9:4).
Who were the people that were held in bondage when Jesus walked the earth?
The jews were (Acts 15; Gal 4:21-31).
I ask, if you are now saying that the sabbath no longer needs to be kept then why do we go to church? If you are saying that the sabbath day of the Lord is not important then why do we go to Church on Sunday?*
We go to church cause we are commanded not to forsake the assembling of ourselves togother untill the Lord returns (Heb 10).
I never said the sabbath was not important Paul did (Col 2:16; Gal4:10). Christians go to church on Sunday cause believers have since as early as 74 AD. As Gentilles did not observe the sabbath they decided to come togother on the first day of the week because of the resserection.
What do you think Paul is saying when he says, do you want to go back into bondage under mans authority do you think he is saying this?*
Paul makes it very clear as to what “bondage” is. Read Gal 4:21-31. The law is bondage he says. And no, not under mans authority but by Christ’s authority as Christ choose Paul to take the gospel to the gentilles (Acts 9). Whose authority was it that Peter, James and the church in Jerusalem said that gentilles did not have to be circumsied or observe the law?
Was not Moses mother a Hebrew slave? Slaves to whom? Are they not God’s choosen people.Were they not held in bondage with the rich at the top?
Yes the Hebrews were slaves to Pharoah and the Egyptians.
To keep his laws and commands is up to each one with no man telling you any different, do you think? Are we to please man or God?
God had many commandments. In the law there are about 613 commandments. Do you keep them planter? In the NT whatever the apostles or Jesus command are commandments we are to observe (Jn 14:15; Acts 1:2; 1Thess 4:2; 1Cor 14:37).
For God to write the Ten commandments with his own finger must be pretty important and to place them in the ark for do you not think in God’s time they will not bare witness against us? have we not heard? Have we not heard, have we not studied, have you not read Jesus said.
Who did God give the ten commandments to? You planter? Isreal maybe? We walk according to the spirit and not according to the letter says Paul 2 Cor3. The sabbath commandment is a cereimonal commandment not found in creation but given to the nation Isreal ONLY. The ten commandments were a witness. They are referred to as a testimony which in Hebrew means a witness. They were the words of the OLD covenant Ex 34:28.
Continued…*
J
Joel1984
Guest
Jesus tells us he did not come to change one tittle or jot of the law! Jesus did not ask us to make Sunday the sabbath but to be batized. If you choose or anyone to call Sunday the sabbath that is up to you or who ever. Let no man judge!!!
Matt5:17 talks about the law and the prophets. What law is he speaking of? The ten commandments? Nope. The WHOLE LAW OF MOSES.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Has not one jot or title fell from the law of Moses? Jesus did not destroy the law or the prophets (OT scripture) but did indeed fulfilled it.
1. Who are you calling pagans?
I never called anyone a pagan. You misunderstood my post. Gal 4:10 however is clear that Paul was speaking of the days in the law. I didn’t understand some of what you were saying planter. You seemed to be everywhere.
Christian regards
Joel Sexton
Matt5:17 talks about the law and the prophets. What law is he speaking of? The ten commandments? Nope. The WHOLE LAW OF MOSES.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Has not one jot or title fell from the law of Moses? Jesus did not destroy the law or the prophets (OT scripture) but did indeed fulfilled it.
1. Who are you calling pagans?
I never called anyone a pagan. You misunderstood my post. Gal 4:10 however is clear that Paul was speaking of the days in the law. I didn’t understand some of what you were saying planter. You seemed to be everywhere.
Christian regards
Joel Sexton
B
b0rnagain
Guest
Here are some links to take a look at
juntosociety.com/i_documents/catholic10.html
marianland.com/tencommandments/ten_commandments.html
grab a KJV and see the differences.
B
b0rnagain
Guest
Protestant 101 I read that you were a SDA. Why may I ask did you leave the church? I am a bornagain Christian, but started studying with some SDA’s. so I am very curious as to why you would leave their church.
I was raised Catholic but started questioning things that we were doing after I read the bible and saw things that did not make sense to me such as praying to Mary and to Saints, confessing my sins to a pastor. and bowing to idols. Needless to say I was lost until 3 years ago and gave my life to Christ. Have been going to a Non-Denominational Church but 4 months ago we met some people and they wanted to start a Bible study so my husband agreed. We were studing Daniel and Revelation. And during that time I started looking up some stuff about them and came across an Ellen White and The Millerites and that really started to concern me, becuase obviously Christ did not return in 1844 or the other times they predicted. I do now that Satan will do anything to try and infiltrate God’s church, so when they gave me this book to read called Truth Matters by Walter Veith a couple of weeks ago becuase we had to stop our bible study because of my husband leaving town for work. I again started to get confused because in the book he backs it up with scripture. So is there something that I am missing? Where did the Apostles change from teaching the gospel from Sat to Sun? Why do we belive there will be a Rapture. And why do we belive that once you die you go before God for judgment? I am so confused all I want to do is obey God but with all these different beliefs that we are told it’s like who’s right?
J
justinthemartyr
Guest
you should read the catechism, and there you will find that we don’t pray to mary and the saints as an end, as if they are God. We ask them for their intercession in prayer to God, just as you would do with anyone else in the Body of Christ here on earth.
You would also find that The first pastors of the church, the apostles, the bishops, were given the ability to forgive sins of others, or not to, by Jesus, who initially had the power to forgive sin as we see in John 20:21-23.
You would also then see that the apostles and their disciples started meeting on the first day of the week, and the churhc which had the authority of God changed the day of worship to Sunday. This is the same church God had write the NT and protect it, study it and canonize the entire Bible in 382ad.
This is the Catholic Church.
You would also find that The first pastors of the church, the apostles, the bishops, were given the ability to forgive sins of others, or not to, by Jesus, who initially had the power to forgive sin as we see in John 20:21-23.
You would also then see that the apostles and their disciples started meeting on the first day of the week, and the churhc which had the authority of God changed the day of worship to Sunday. This is the same church God had write the NT and protect it, study it and canonize the entire Bible in 382ad.
This is the Catholic Church.
S
St_Violet
Guest
Protestant101 is still a Seventh Day Adventist and convinced of their teachings.
one thing to keep in mind is that you can prove just about anything with just the bible
J
Joel1984
Guest
Ya, I think Protestant 101 is still an SDA. His profile says he is and you can tell by his posts. I however am a former SDA. You might have gotten him and I mixed up.
Christian regards
Joel Sexton
Christian regards
Joel Sexton
P
planter654
Guest
Joel
Yes, Joel your right I am sometimes everywhere so.Sorry!
Like you said the whole law then it is also the Feast days to be celebrated, Feast of the Passover, Feast of Tabernacle, Feast of Unleavened Bread, God’s percepts, his ordinances, statues.
God’s will and his desires are still not fufilled or finished yet. Not until the full number of the gentiles are in.
It is not ended yet. Jesus accomplished what his work was to be, but all is not yet fufilled and our work is not ended or accomplish not till we all die, do you think?
Yes the whole law of Moses. Jesus said: When he returns and puts his foot on Mount Olive we will returned and will be commanded to go once a year to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacle and also states what will happen if we do not obey. And Jesus will return and be our High Priest over his church.
God Bless Thanks
P
planter654
Guest
P
planter654
Guest
Joel was God just blowing out air when he gave those commands. Sabbath Moses, Jesus, Be fruitful an multiply doesn’t apply to all.
Are we not all Israelities those who believe in God, Jesus Christ are we not all children of Abraham whom Jesus also called Father?
Joel I believe when God speaks of Israel he is not speaking of the country Israel but of Jacob ( Israel) the ten tribes, his children who are scattered through out the nations that is us to. Gentiles are those who do not believe etc. Abraham, Issac, Israel we all come from the seed of Abraham through Jesus Christ. God speaks of he will gather all the nations.God tells us there will be no Jew, Greek, man or woman etc in heaven.
No! Joel have have not fallowed all or nil in the eyes of God his commandments and I do not think anyone either, but I seek and now have hope and believe one day I will be with God in heaven because Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins and he did not die in vain. I believe in his infinite mercy for I could never pay my debt because it was to high a price.
But I am seeking knocking and asking God to know his will and desire for me and to give me nourishment for he is my source of strength and power for without him I can accomplish nothing!
only as a little child can we become spiritually mature.
God Bless a little child of God and Thanks Joel
R
Richard_Kastner
Guest
I’m not Protestant 101 but I am a Seventh Day Adventist and I too was a Catholic and had many concerns about the things that I saw in the Catholic Church which did not seem to square with the things that I read in the bible. I started to pray, what I have since come to call, “my little prayer” Which simply was: Lord show me what you want me to do in my life. One day at mass Oct. 17 1999 I was visited by the Holy Spirit and he gave me a gift of knowledge
1Cor. 12:8 This gift told me two things 1. I was in the wrong church and 2. I needed to start keeping the seventh day Sabbath of the bible. Now I am passing that gift on to you. Bornagain, you are on the right track. The best advice I can give you is put your trust in God, study His word, and pray. Ask Him what His will is for you and He will show you THE WAY.
The Millerites made a mistake in interpreting Dan.8:14. They thought that the cleansing of the sanctuary mentioned there referred to the second comming of Jesus in 1844. Actually we see now that it is a referance to the day of atonement. When Christ entered the most holy place in heaven to begin the investigative judgement. This judgement is still going on and will continue untill just before Christs’ return.
By the way, this whole scenario is prophesied in Rev.10
The apostles didn’t change the teaching from Sat. to Sun. It hasn’t been changed. Altho the Catholic Church has thought to change times and laws Dan.7:25 I beleive there will be a rapture when Jesus returns, but I don’t beleive in a secret rapture. where souls will be taken to heaven before Christ’s return. You really need to study what happens when you die and the state of the dead. Check out this link it will help with many of your questions
biblelight.net/bl-banner500.gif
In Christ Richard
P
planter654
Guest
Christ Richard if God told you to keep the Sabbath what day do you do it on. Were you in the Catholic Church when the Holy Spirit told you were in the wrong church Or have I miss understood.
Thanks God Bless
J
Joel1984
Guest
To Planter
You say you believe that all the feasts should be kept. I disagree as I believe even Richard will agree with me on this one, although for different reasons.
Galatians 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Galatians 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
These days are no doubt days from the law as the whole context Paul is adressing the law and the two covenants. The days (weekly sabbath) months (new moons) times-seasons (annual sabbaths) and years (sabbatical years). Paul covers all the days found in the Torah. Notice v 30.
Galatians 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
The bondwoman and her son were Hagar and Ishmael (v 22…) The Old Covenant and the law have been cast out.
You mention Zech 14 where it states after the Day of the Lord we will be keeping the taberncales. Zech 14 is the most difficult passage imo when it comes to eschatology, and I do not feel that we should be using OT eschatology texts to prove our postion on a doctrine. Read Eze 40-47. There it talks about a new priesthood in the future with a re-built temple and sacrifices. Do you believe planter that this is literal? If so you must be a pre-mill dispensationlist. I believe alot of these OT eschatoloical passages were contingent upon Isreal’s faithfullness to God. Since Isreal was divorced for the final time in ad 70 I am not sure if these will come to pass as stated.
Christian regards
Joel Sexton
You say you believe that all the feasts should be kept. I disagree as I believe even Richard will agree with me on this one, although for different reasons.
Galatians 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Galatians 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
These days are no doubt days from the law as the whole context Paul is adressing the law and the two covenants. The days (weekly sabbath) months (new moons) times-seasons (annual sabbaths) and years (sabbatical years). Paul covers all the days found in the Torah. Notice v 30.
Galatians 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
The bondwoman and her son were Hagar and Ishmael (v 22…) The Old Covenant and the law have been cast out.
You mention Zech 14 where it states after the Day of the Lord we will be keeping the taberncales. Zech 14 is the most difficult passage imo when it comes to eschatology, and I do not feel that we should be using OT eschatology texts to prove our postion on a doctrine. Read Eze 40-47. There it talks about a new priesthood in the future with a re-built temple and sacrifices. Do you believe planter that this is literal? If so you must be a pre-mill dispensationlist. I believe alot of these OT eschatoloical passages were contingent upon Isreal’s faithfullness to God. Since Isreal was divorced for the final time in ad 70 I am not sure if these will come to pass as stated.
Christian regards
Joel Sexton
J
Joel1984
Guest
Responding to Richard
Is it not true Richard that your church teaches that Jesus entered the Most Holy place Oct 22, 1844 and not at his ascension like the bible tells us.
*[Hebrews 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;/I]
Hebrews 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Is not also true that Ellen White and the Investigative Judgement doctrine denies that the atonement of Christ was complete at Calvary denying scripture?
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
[Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all./I]
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Romans 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Is it not also true that our sins have been forgotten, forgiven and nailed to the cross which the Investigative Judgement doctrine denies?
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Is it not also true that Ellen White taught the “shut door” theory that because people did not believe Jesus would come in Oct of 1844 that the door was shut for all souls to be saved on the earth forever? Didn’t she still preach and teach this in 1850/51 long after she had her first “vision?”
As for soul sleep, just go to the link that Delraek posted which is a thread on this forum. On it Richard made a post on a soul sleep then SDA2RC made a couple of posts to refute Richard in which Richard nor Protestant101 didn’t respond to. Delreak even asked them again on part 17 of this thread to please respond which they have not showing that they can’t. Just like on this thread here. Richard and Protestant 101 both threw in the towel as their SDA postion has been easily refuted by scripture.
Here is that link to the other thread
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=198998
Christian regards
Joel Sexton*
Is it not true Richard that your church teaches that Jesus entered the Most Holy place Oct 22, 1844 and not at his ascension like the bible tells us.
*[Hebrews 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;/I]
Hebrews 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Is not also true that Ellen White and the Investigative Judgement doctrine denies that the atonement of Christ was complete at Calvary denying scripture?
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
[Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all./I]
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Romans 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Is it not also true that our sins have been forgotten, forgiven and nailed to the cross which the Investigative Judgement doctrine denies?
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Is it not also true that Ellen White taught the “shut door” theory that because people did not believe Jesus would come in Oct of 1844 that the door was shut for all souls to be saved on the earth forever? Didn’t she still preach and teach this in 1850/51 long after she had her first “vision?”
As for soul sleep, just go to the link that Delraek posted which is a thread on this forum. On it Richard made a post on a soul sleep then SDA2RC made a couple of posts to refute Richard in which Richard nor Protestant101 didn’t respond to. Delreak even asked them again on part 17 of this thread to please respond which they have not showing that they can’t. Just like on this thread here. Richard and Protestant 101 both threw in the towel as their SDA postion has been easily refuted by scripture.
Here is that link to the other thread
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=198998
Christian regards
Joel Sexton*
P
planter654
Guest
Thank you God bless
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