Several questions most of which arise rom

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Faustinas_frien

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1-what is the interest in a Latin mass. I took Latin in school but don’t know anyone who fluently can converse in Latin . When I pray I want to be certain of what I am praying for. I am an Estern rite catholic (who attends RC church because there are none in this area) and when they speak Latin, I do not respond as too I wonder if those who do know what they are saying. PS as an eastern rite, when prayers aRe in slavonic, this is my natural language growing up, so I DO know what is being prayed.
2- I do not understand when you enter church, you are in the presence of God Himself, but people converse and interrupt the pre-mass rosary to talk about what kids did last week at the party
3- a sermon was made where the priest told us there was no such thing as purgatory. He said that was devised to make the living feel better. (I wanted to walk out the door in protest). I was later told this is a Vatican II priest, just let it go.
4- I still do not understand after many inquiries, why the tabernacle in the church, the house of God, is in a corner, yet priest and attendants sit in prominence at the altar. Can anyone explain this?
5- why do people leave church after receiving communion. I was taught this was your holiest time, your real time to praise And thank God, the few minutes the body and blood, soul and divinity are within you, but people walk out to have a smoke instead.
6-I have seen women go to church dressed in “hot pants” and deep plunging halter tops. This woman actually had to put her fingers into her crotch to pull down the inseam before going to communion. Nobody says anything?

Tell me, am I old fashioned?
To me this is Gods house.
This is one time I can spend 1 hour with God Himself…and that’s not a lot to ask.
I just don’t get it.
Please tell me, is it me? Am I a prude? Or have we lost our respect ?
 
The Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo are both equally valid. If you don’t understand Latin, the 1962 Missal is available which has the Latin and English. That’s what we had at Catholic school.

amazon.com/Roman-Missal-English-Latin-Edition/dp/0954563123

The interest in the Latin Mass is clearly explained here:

"As for the use of the 1962 Missal as a Forma extraordinaria of the liturgy of the Mass, I would like to draw attention to the fact that this Missal was never juridically abrogated and, consequently, in principle, was always permitted. At the time of the introduction of the new Missal, it did not seem necessary to issue specific norms for the possible use of the earlier Missal. Probably it was thought that it would be a matter of a few individual cases which would be resolved, case by case, on the local level. Afterwards, however, it soon became apparent that a good number of people remained strongly attached to this usage of the Roman Rite, which had been familiar to them from childhood. This was especially the case in countries where the liturgical movement had provided many people with a notable liturgical formation and a deep, personal familiarity with the earlier Form of the liturgical celebration. We all know that, in the movement led by Archbishop Lefebvre, fidelity to the old Missal became an external mark of identity; the reasons for the break which arose over this, however, were at a deeper level. Many people who clearly accepted the binding character of the Second Vatican Council, and were faithful to the Pope and the Bishops, nonetheless also desired to recover the form of the sacred liturgy that was dear to them. This occurred above all because in many places celebrations were not faithful to the prescriptions of the new Missal, but the latter actually was understood as authorizing or even requiring creativity, which frequently led to deformations of the liturgy which were hard to bear. I am speaking from experience, since I too lived through that period with all its hopes and its confusion. And I have seen how arbitrary deformations of the liturgy caused deep pain to individuals totally rooted in the faith of the Church.

“Pope John Paul II thus felt obliged to provide, in his Motu Proprio Ecclesia Dei (2 July 1988), guidelines for the use of the 1962 Missal; that document, however, did not contain detailed prescriptions but appealed in a general way to the generous response of Bishops towards the “legitimate aspirations” of those members of the faithful who requested this usage of the Roman Rite. At the time, the Pope primarily wanted to assist the Society of Saint Pius X to recover full unity with the Successor of Peter, and sought to heal a wound experienced ever more painfully. Unfortunately this reconciliation has not yet come about. Nonetheless, a number of communities have gratefully made use of the possibilities provided by the Motu Proprio. On the other hand, difficulties remain concerning the use of the 1962 Missal outside of these groups, because of the lack of precise juridical norms, particularly because Bishops, in such cases, frequently feared that the authority of the Council would be called into question. Immediately after the Second Vatican Council it was presumed that requests for the use of the 1962 Missal would be limited to the older generation which had grown up with it, but in the meantime it has clearly been demonstrated that young persons too have discovered this liturgical form, felt its attraction and found in it a form of encounter with the Mystery of the Most Holy Eucharist, particularly suited to them. Thus the need has arisen for a clearer juridical regulation which had not been foreseen at the time of the 1988 Motu Proprio. The present Norms are also meant to free Bishops from constantly having to evaluate anew how they are to respond to various situations.”

Source: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi_en.html

The deteriorations of behaviors inside the Church and certain other changes were purely the result of the actions and influences of dissidents inside and outside the Church starting in the late 1960s. I was there. If you have actually seen the things you mention, you have two options: (1) Talk to your priest. Or. (2) Contact your Bishop and provide the facts. Just be polite in both cases.

Peace,
Ed
 
Faustinas_frien said:
1-what is the interest in a Latin mass. I took Latin in school but don’t know anyone who fluently can converse in Latin . When I pray I want to be certain of what I am praying for. I am an Estern rite catholic (who attends RC church because there are none in this area) and when they speak Latin, I do not respond as too I wonder if those who do know what they are saying. PS as an eastern rite, when prayers aRe in slavonic, this is my natural language growing up, so I DO know what is being prayed.
2- I do not understand when you enter church, you are in the presence of God Himself, but people converse and interrupt the pre-mass rosary to talk about what kids did last week at the party
3- a sermon was made where the priest told us there was no such thing as purgatory. He said that was devised to make the living feel better. (I wanted to walk out the door in protest). I was later told this is a Vatican II priest, just let it go.
4- I still do not understand after many inquiries, why the tabernacle in the church, the house of God, is in a corner, yet priest and attendants sit in prominence at the altar. Can anyone explain this?
5- why do people leave church after receiving communion. I was taught this was your holiest time, your real time to praise And thank God, the few minutes the body and blood, soul and divinity are within you, but people walk out to have a smoke instead.
6-I have seen women go to church dressed in “hot pants” and deep plunging halter tops. This woman actually had to put her fingers into her crotch to pull down the inseam before going to communion. Nobody says anything?

Tell me, am I old fashioned?
To me this is Gods house.
This is one time I can spend 1 hour with God Himself…and that’s not a lot to ask.
I just don’t get it.
Please tell me, is it me? Am I a prude? Or have we lost our respect ?
Click to expand...
You could try a different Church. But if you are in Europe, Britian, or the U.S., you will see some strange attitudes toward dress.

I would definitely try to find a Church where folks weren’t speaking Latin, I think that is just bad manners.

Linus2nd
 
  1. The Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite in its various expressions has been the primary liturgical rite of the Latin church for centuries. Only in the 1960’s the liturgical reform brought forth a revised rite, the Ordinary Form. Catholics know very well what is happening in the E.F. and - as you are probably aware - there is much that the priest does that is specifically between him and the Father. We also have plenty of missals and missalettes to understand even what the priest is praying - but this is not essential.
  2. I don’t either. It is quite disturbing and the result of poor catechesis on our side. People ought to be taught to be very, very recollected in the presence of the living God. Unfortunately this is not always the case as lay faithful feel at liberty to chit-chat in the Church and the clergy does not necessarily do anything about it.
  3. That statement is heresy. No priest, before or after any Holy Ecumenical Council, is allowed to preach heresy. It may be that he was trying to make a complicated point and either he got confused or there was some misunderstanding. In any case, if this happens, I would address the concern to the priest, and if he reiterates this, I would send a letter to the bishop immediately.
  4. This is also a poor modern choice. There has been a tendency to do this as the Holy Mass begun to be celebrated versus populum rather than ad orientem. Someone at some point thought it was simpler for the priest to sit behind the altar, and to shift the Tabernacle to a side. The Lord, who is merciful and slow to anger, allows this in many places for a time. I know many churches where finally the chair of the priest was moved to the side and the Tabernacle restored to where it belongs.
  5. The most politically correct answer to this question I can give without getting banned from this forum is: it is a matter that regards their faith on the Real Presence of the Lord in the Eucharist, which is in need of pastoral care. Let he who has ears hear.
  6. Modesty in church declined as it declined in the world, and the clergy does not necessarily do anything about it. In the “Latin Mass” ladies are asked to dress below the knee, with shoulders covered, and with a veil or headcover. Immodesty is such a scandal that nobody even tries it. This tends to not be the case in too many places.
Many of us indeed have lost respect. We need to pray and do penance for the many offenses and sacrileges to which Our Lord is subject in so many churches around the world.
 
Linusthe2nd said:
I would definitely try to find a Church where folks weren’t speaking Latin, I think that is just bad manners.
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I don’t think you are being serious here.

Latin is the sacred and official language of the Church (try reading the Apostolic Constitution Veterum Sapientia) and it is the official language of the Roman Rite, although in most countries (if not all) the Holy See has provided vernacular translations of the Missale Romanum (ex. English).

If you read the Vatican II Constitution on Sacred Liturgy Sacrosanctum Concilium you will discover that the Holy Mass is still supposed to be said in Latin (most of it, at least) but special dispensations were asked and granted so that now most of it (if not all) is said in the vernacular.

People are not “speaking Latin” out of bad manners. They are responding to the priest, or chanting, or praying the Credo and Gloria. I am quite sure that only a very few folks learn Latin down to a conversational level (we have a course for that purpose in my area :o).
 
No arguing about the forms of the Mass, or a thread lock is assured.

Ed
 
Faustinas_frien said:
…and that’s not a lot to ask.
I just don’t get it.
Please tell me, is it me? Am I a prude? Or have we lost our respect ?
Click to expand...
Wow! You and I are on the same page!

Although, equally, I am on a similar wavelength as Padre Pio and Chesterton!

Have you ever read any quotes by either? You might like them!
 
Although, I like the Latin mass. Well, there are several advantages. Once you actually learn it, you can literally go ANYWHERE in the world and have the same mass! This, to me, creates an incredible bond. I’ve seen where countries will often divide over language, alone.

Further, it’s one less translation, though. To me, it’s more pure. However, I can also see the advantages of having it in one’s language, as well. Why not have both options available, when possible?

Well, Latin mass often goes hand and hand with the communion rail, modesty, respect, sacred music, just a bunch of things. You have well-dressed, respectful altar boys and not Young girls dressed in short shorts helping out with communion.

I like the structure of the Latin mass. I was told that in the Latin mass, the translation was on one side, though.

I’d be tempted to learn Latin just to have that seriousness. Normally, you don’t see the kind of disrespect you mentioned as often in the Latin mass. It commands respect! We KNEEL for communion. Respect!

You normally don’t see as many immodestly dressed people there.

People who go to Latin mass normally aren’t as much the type who will run out of mass for a smoke break, say. They normally take their faith very seriously, in at least some ways.
 
Faustinas_frien said:
3- a sermon was made where the priest told us there was no such thing as purgatory. He said that was devised to make the living feel better. (I wanted to walk out the door in protest). I was later told this is a Vatican II priest, just let it go.
Click to expand...
If this is true report the priest to the bishop immediately. The existence of purgatory is taught in the Catholic Catechism and, as such, all Catholics - priests especially - must religiously submit to, teach, explain and accept the doctrine as a teaching of the Church.

Indeed, there are not a few Magisterial statements by the Popes declaring that the reality of Purgatory is taught by Christ Himself, following certain texts from the Gospel.

I will confess that early post-Vatican II clergy were often, in my experience, badly formed in seminaries and it sometimes shows. This is not necessarily their fault and it should not be presumed that they believe these things on account of ill will or are anything like disloyal to the Church - they just had bad teachers.

I had to listen to a priest during my catechism classes / RCIA insist that the sacrament of Matrimony was a Medieval invention. What he really meant is that Matrimony wasn’t understood explicitly as a sacrament until the Medieval ages; however, Christians always knew that marriage was a divine institution and that Jesus had ordered the institution restored to its original truth and integrity that was made possible again by the help of God’s grace. Notwithstanding, this priest is still a very good priest and I love him as a father.

Hope this helps - and God bless!
 
R_C said:
I don’t think you are being serious here.

Latin is the sacred and official language of the Church (try reading the Apostolic Constitution Veterum Sapientia) and it is the official language of the Roman Rite, although in most countries (if not all) the Holy See has provided vernacular translations of the Missale Romanum (ex. English).

If you read the Vatican II Constitution on Sacred Liturgy Sacrosanctum Concilium you will discover that the Holy Mass is still supposed to be said in Latin (most of it, at least) but special dispensations were asked and granted so that now most of it (if not all) is said in the vernacular.

People are not “speaking Latin” out of bad manners. They are responding to the priest, or chanting, or praying the Credo and Gloria. I am quite sure that only a very few folks learn Latin down to a conversational level (we have a course for that purpose in my area :o).
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I’ve read it all and there is no " supposed " to about the " traditional " Latin Mass. The Popes have repeatedly left its use up to the local Ordiaries.

And as to speaking Latin, it is certainly bad manners to speak to some one in conversational Latin when that person has no or little fluency in Latin. That embarrasses the person who doesn’t speak Latin and is nothing more than a big ego trip for the one speaking Latin. We have an individual on this forum who constantly tries to make an imperssion by writing comments in Latin - what a bore.

Linus2nd
 
Linusthe2nd said:
And as to speaking Latin, it is certainly bad manners to speak to some one in conversational Latin when that person has no or little fluency in Latin. That embarrasses the person who doesn’t speak Latin and is nothing more than a big ego trip for the one speaking Latin. We have an individual on this forum who constantly tries to make an imperssion by writing comments in Latin - what a bore.

Linus2nd
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I agree on this.

I personally quote Scripture in Latin every so often (including the English translation most of the times) because the vernacular translations often fall incredibly short of the original point 🤷
 
Linusthe2nd said:
You could try a different Church. But if you are in Europe, Britian, or the U.S., you will see some strange attitudes toward dress.

I would definitely try to find a Church where folks weren’t speaking Latin, I think that is just bad manners.

Linus2nd
Click to expand...
Linusthe2nd said:
I’ve read it all and there is no " supposed " to about the " traditional " Latin Mass. The Popes have repeatedly left its use up to the local Ordiaries.

And as to speaking Latin, it is certainly bad manners to speak to some one in conversational Latin when that person has no or little fluency in Latin. That embarrasses the person who doesn’t speak Latin and is nothing more than a big ego trip for the one speaking Latin. We have an individual on this forum who constantly tries to make an imperssion by writing comments in Latin - what a bore.

Linus2nd
Click to expand...
I don’t think the OP was talking about speaking to each other in Latin outside of Mass, so this is off topic and doesn’t relate to the post at hand.

For the record, for some reason, when we say “Lord have Mercy…” for some reason, my brain hears/says Kyrie Elision…that’s the only Latin I know from Mass, since I didn’t grow up attending Mass in Latin. I don’t know why, but that’s my ‘preferred’ method of asking Him for Mercy. I’m also quite sure He knows what I’m saying.
 
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