Several questions presented to me by a pentacostal. Help!

[gap51]

Regarding Q3: 1 Peter 2:9 is quoting Ex 19:6 where the whole nation is said to be a people of priests. This is not saying it rules out the special priesthood of the sons of Aaron & Levi. So it is with 1 Peter 2:9 where the “priesthood” (greek: hierateuma) should not rule out the “special priestly duty” (Greek: hierorgounta) which Paul mentions in Romans 15:16

 

[Christian4life]

adnauseum:

Did you know that Margaret Sanger deliberately strategized to take advantage of the natural hatred of protestants toward Catholics to push her radical birth control and abortion agenda on America?

The American Federation of Churches - umbrella group for protestants - jumped on her bandwagon early in the 20th Century. She whipped them into a frenzy to defeat the Catholics.

Protestants willingly served as useful idiots for the Culture of Death.

QUOTE]
That’s true. I’ve read a lot of her writings and that is exactly true. That’s one thing that really bothered me about my being a Protestant. I am finally in the process of starting to convert now.

Not only did Margaret Sanger use Protestant preachers to further her evil agenda, they were all for it. Even MLK Jr.! He actually LIKED her. Billy Graham is still a huge promoter of birth control, so apparently some still are. That just makes me really sad. The fact that I was able to waste years of my life being a pro-choice Christian. The fact that I could be devoted to whatever my church taught and still be pro-choice makes me sick.

What I still don’t get is how she could go against her own mother, a Catholic.

 

[adstrinity]

You know, I just briefly skimmed the replies, not to mention the list, but, it seems to me, that the Bible doesn’t condemn ANY such thing, just HIS personal interpretation of it, AND, if this is HIS interpretation of it, then who is reading into things? I’d point out that he didn’t come up with the list himself & can he not think for himself? Nah…that will probably not do much good, but, still!!! GRRRRR!!! I shall pray for you, NolePaul2005.

 

[Lazerlike42]

The interpretations on the website that the list came from are some of the worst anti-Catholic stuff out there, because it is all some of the most circularly reasoned stuff I have ever seen. Almost every arguement only works if you start of with the notion of what the arguement is trying to prove.

They all basically say:

1. Such and such is the wrong teaching
2. Random Bible Verse
3. Since such and such is wrong, this verse must not mean such and such

 

[Church_Militant]

NolePaul2005:

Here are several questions that Ive been asked. How do I answer these? Any help would be wonderful. God Bless!!

The following list give a summation of what we have been trying to emphasize. If the Bible is a Catholic book,

1. Why does it condemn clerical dress? (Matt. 23:5-6). Nowhere in this passage does it condemn clerical dress at all … It condemns hypocrisy and egotism.
2. Why does it teach against the adoration of Mary? (Luke 11:27-28). Since this passage has nothing to do with the topic, his proof text is irrelevent and since the is no adoration of the Blessed Virgin in Catholicism’s teachings, this is nothing more than ignorant bunkum.
3. Why does it show that all Christians are priests? (1 Pet. 2:5,9).OKay…so why did they appoint deacons and elders (priests) in the NT… This guys doesn’t know what he’s talking about. See this letter from Ignatius of Antioch
4. Why does it condemn the observance of special days? (Gal. 4:9-11). This is about returning to Judaism and Paul is talking about them capitulating to the Judaizers. This has nothing to do with Christian feastdays and Sundays. CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!
5. Why does it teach that all Christians are saints? (1 Cor. 1:2). If the guy knew what the church teaches about this he wouldn’t ask dumb questions like this. Canonization is nothing more than an official recognization that the person in question lived a very holy life and makes a good example for the rest of us church militants.
6. Why does it condemn the making and adoration of images? (Ex. 20:4-5). Well gee… Iconoclasm is the result of fundamentalist Islamic influence in the 9th century (Think Talliban!) This might have been a valid gripe if we worshipped statues, but since no Catholic is stupid enough to confuse a chunk of plastic, wood, metal, or plaster with the almighty and ever-living God of the universe, they need to get over themselves.
7. Why does it teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring? (Col. 2:12).Gee “buried” does not mean dunked…in fact no one know who is being buried is “dunked in dirt” and Christ certainly wasn’t buried that way. Did they ever think of this verse? Mark 1:4 John (the) Baptist appeared in the desert proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins… Does it anywhere say that there is a lot of water for dunking people in a desert? Is Israel known for a lot of lakes & rivers in the time of Christ?
8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as “father”? (Matt. 23:9). It doesn’t! Call No Man Father
9. Why does it teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter? (1 Cor. 3:11). Matthew 16:18 teaches something that makes a lot better sense, since Jesus is the foundation of the church that he built on Cephas by His own choice that they reject. Shamefully disobedient!
10. Why does it teach that there is one mediator instead of many? (1 Tim. 2:5). Their point? But Paul goes on to tell us that he wants us all to intercede for each other and often asks for prayers. Does being dead stop one from being part of the Body of Christ? 8 I will therefore that men pray in every place, lifting up pure hands, without anger and contention.

cont’d

 

[Psalm45_9]

NolePaul2005:

Here are several questions that Ive been asked. How do I answer these? Any help would be wonderful. God Bless!!

The following list give a summation of what we have been trying to emphasize. If the Bible is a Catholic book,

1. Why does it condemn clerical dress? (Matt. 23:5-6).

This link will answer this and many other things on the list: matt1618.freeyellow.com/traditions.html

NolePaul2005:

1. Why does it teach against the adoration of Mary? (Luke 11:27-28).

That passage says nothing of the sort. Basically the woman in the crowd was saying, “You’re mother is so fortunate to have a son like you.” And Jesus basically responded, “Rather, fortunate are those that hear the gospel and live by it.” Did Mary hear the Gospel? Yes. Did she live by it? Yes. This passage in no way condemns the veneration of the Blessed Mother, since Christ was not speaking against her.

NolePaul2005:

1. Why does it show that all Christians are priests? (1 Pet. 2:5,9).

All Christians are priests. But there is different from a lay priest (the majority of the Catholic Church) who offer up spiritual sacrifices and a ministerial priest who offers up the sacrfice of Calvary. The Catholic priesthood in no way competes with or replaces the priesthood of Christ, rather it is a sharing in that ministry. cin.org/users/james/files/ntpriest.htm

cin.org/users/james/files/priest.htm

NolePaul2005:

1. Why does it condemn the observance of special days? (Gal. 4:9-11).

Don’t take the 4th of July off, don’t celebrate your son’s Birthday, and certainly don’t have coffee and cake after you become born again.

 

[Psalm45_9]

5. Why does it teach that all Christians are saints? (1 Cor. 1:2).

All Christians are Saints, however, the Church makes a distinction. There are us (the Saints in the making) and then there are The Saints (the souls that are now in Heaven.)

6. Why does it condemn the making and adoration of images? (Ex. 20:4-5).

It doesn’t, what that passage condems is idolatry, which is the worship of images as gods. God gives this commandment, but what else does he say a few chapters later? “And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.” (Exodus 25:18-20) Also: "And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” (Numbers 21:8-9) As you can see, God does not condemn the making of images for religous purposes, he condemns the worship of idols. Which goes against the first commandment, thus the reason why The Catholic Church places Exodus 20:4-5 as part of the first commandment and not the 2nd commandment, as the Pentecostals do. Also see: 1 Chr. 28:18–19. Don’t forget to ask this person if they have any pictures in their wallet.

7. Why does it teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring? (Col. 2:12).

catholic.com/library/Baptism_Immersion_Only.asp

8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as “father”? (Matt. 23:9).

"And Stephen said: “Brethren and fathers, hear me.” (Acts 7:2) St. Stephen is not addressing his descendents (a rebuttal made by Protestants when Catholics say the the Apostles addressed Abraham as ‘father’.

catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp

9. Why does it teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter? (1 Cor. 3:11).

Duh, without Jesus the papacy wouldn’t mean anything, without Christ’s authority and commision in Matthew 16:18 then the papacy would have no ground to stand on. You can find more here: catholic.com/library/church_papacy.asp

10. Why does it teach that there is one mediator instead of many? (1 Tim. 2:5).

The Church does teach that Jesus is the only mediator between God and man, but that does not mean there are mediators between Jesus and man. If they say otherwise, then advise them to stop asking their friends and family members to pray for them.

 

[Church_Militant]

1. Why does it teach that a bishop must be a married man? (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5). It doesn’t… it teaches that he can have only one wife. Why do they choose to ignore the very teaching of Jesus himself about celibacy, as well as St. Paul’s? Matthew 19:10 His disciples say unto him: If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry. 11 Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.

1 Corinthians 7:8 But I say to the unmarried, and to the widows: It is good for them if they so continue, even as I.

1. Why is it opposed to the primacy of Peter? (Luke 22:24-27).This is nonsense proof texting that has nothing to do with Petrine primacy. refer back to Matt 16:18
2. Why does it oppose the idea of purgatory? (Luke 16:26). Another nonsense proof text. The Implicit doctrine of purgatory is laid out here and here (by the Early Church Fathers)
3. Why is it completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church? These are all Church of Christ arguments borrowed by your Pentecostal opponent who deny that the ECF have left us insight into what the early church really believed and these guys have only been around since 1906 (when they broke away from the Disiples of Christ denom) but they fancy themselves as the only valid revival of the New Testament church. See the ma(name removed by moderator)age Library for documents that will help you answer all this junk.

You REALLY need the set of Beginning Apologetics booklets fromSan Juan Catholic Seminars if you’re gonna try to deal with opposition like that.
Pax tecum,

 

[Psalm45_9]

11. Why does it teach that a bishop must be a married man? (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5).

I read that passage and it implies that there were married Bishops in the early church, it does not say anywhere that a Bishop must be married. catholic.com/library/Celibacy_and_the_Priesthood.asp

12. Why is it opposed to the primacy of Peter? (Luke 22:24-27).

You might be able to find something here: bringyou.to/apologetics/apolog.htm#PAPACY

13. Why does it oppose the idea of purgatory? (Luke 16:26).

Actually, that parable only supports purgatory. Christ had not yet been crucified and raised, the rich man is not in Hell and Lazuras is not in Heaven. Lazurus is in Limbo of the Patriarchs: “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison.” (1 Peter 3:19). Well if the rich man is not burning in hell (he cannot because Christ’s glory has not come and the rich man is trying to intercede on behalf of his brothers; the forsaken are incapable to show charity) then where is he burning? The fires of Purgatory: “If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:15)

14. Why is it completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?

Why is the Bible silent about which books belong in it? Why is the Bible silent about what the Holy Trinity is?

catholic.com/library/Early_Teachings_of_Infant_Baptism.asp

catholic.com/library/Primer_on_Indulgences.asp

catholic.com/library/Myths_About_Indulgences.asp

catholic.com/library/Confession.asp

catholic.com/library/Rosary.asp

catholic.com/library/Sacrifice_of_the_Mass.asp

catholic.com/library/Institution_of_the_Mass.asp

 

[Psalm45_9]

Psalm45:9:

matt1618.freeyellow.com/traditions.html

What do you know, that site answers nearly all of the objections given in this thread. :yawn: