Several Questions...

[Virgina]

HI,

I enjoyed reading your replies about how to overcome “urges”. I have a question about this. I had a Bible class with a priest who believed that women should masturbate…adult women. I didn’t ask any questions about why…I was just a bit stunned that a priest wouldn’t encourage something better and more religious for frustrated women adults. My question is this: Should a priest be doing this? And, he believed that Mary Magdalene was an intimate friend of Jesus. Has this been proven? Wasn’t the Christ chast? Did he have a sexual relationship with Mary Magdalene? I personally don’t think so but I’m not a theologian and don’t know the whole Bible. I personally hope not. What in the Bible refutes this or agrees with it? And are there excerpts about masturbation in the Bible?

Thanks,

Virgina

 

[Franciscan]

HI,

I enjoyed reading your replies about how to overcome “urges”. I have a question about this. I had a Bible class with a priest who believed that women should masturbate…adult women. I didn’t ask any questions about why…I was just a bit stunned that a priest wouldn’t encourage something better and more religious for frustrated women adults. My question is this: Should a priest be doing this? And, he believed that Mary Magdalene was an intimate friend of Jesus. Has this been proven? Wasn’t the Christ chast? Did he have a sexual relationship with Mary Magdalene? I personally don’t think so but I’m not a theologian and don’t know the whole Bible. I personally hope not. What in the Bible refutes this or agrees with it? And are there excerpts about masturbation in the Bible?

Thanks,

Virgina

Be careful in your labels. That must not have been a Catholic Priest.

 

[bcuster]

If this was a Catholic Priest he needs to be set straight and/or his bishop notified.

 

[Andruschak]

And are there excerpts about masturbation in the Bible?

Thanks,

Virgina

Actually, no. The Church’s teachings on sexuality derive from its interpretations of the 6th Commandment. Which interpretation includes the teaching that sex should be ONLY for procreation between married couples.

 

[teachccd]

Was he “Father” Dan Brown?

 

[distracted]

Actually, no. The Church’s teachings on sexuality derive from its interpretations of the 6th Commandment. Which interpretation includes the teaching that sex should be ONLY for procreation between married couples.

the thing abou Onan would tend to be against “self-gratification” becaue he didn’t consummate the act in the woman…

 

[distracted]

Be careful in your labels. That must not have been a Catholic Priest.

The Church teaches that we are to be chaste… it does not teach anything that Christ himself did not endorse/practice… God, of course, does not expect us to do things we are not capable of doing… (no matter how much it SEEMs we are not capable… ).

It is difficult, sometimes… to be chaste, particularly when you live alone and have for a very long time (as i have). Yet in order to maintain a close intimacy with God, we HAVE to be pure. Jesus wants us to become even like little children… (preferably like unborn children… if you ask me … totally undefiled by the world)…

That priest was totally off the mark and, as another poster said, should be reported to the bishop…

I don’t know why there are so many priests who teach liberal ideas these days… kinda weird… I heard Masons are infiltrating the Church in order to destroy it… maybe it is Mason “priests” who teach this kind of rubbish… But anyway… in my experience, there are many liberal priests and we have to watch out for them… Most Christians committed whole-heartedly to Christ, will not be fooled by them… but then there are those who just coming to Christ… and others who, for one reason or another are weak…

Have you seen the movie Hand of God? It is about this guy who went to confession for the sin of “self-gratification” (as i call it)… i hate the m word…

The priest told him to come to his room… started molesting him. It was a tragic story… but i do think the movie over-did it on the imagery used in the movie… hosts falling into what seemed to be a mud puddle, etc… I could totally understand the guy being bitter against the Catholic Church but to throw the baby out with the bathwater was/is … well, something else… Even so, i never realized how irresponsible the higher ups were in the Church in that particular case… (the priest got re-assigned over and over and ended up molesting something like 100 children… ).
I know it is easy to let the pepole in the Church cause you to throw out the entire Church… but we have to realize that the Church is made up of humans/sinners… and that does not obliterate the divinity of the Church…

I dont’ want to “blame the victim” in that case… but i have to say that the beginning of the problem… was … the M word… I mean, he even admitted he was doing it regularly. I am not saying anything but this:

That sin leads to terrible consequences, whether one is ignorant of how serious the sin is or not… (Now that i think about it, this is a good example of how ridiculous Once Saved Always Saved is… it shows that sin destroys… whether one is a child, ignorant… or whatever…).

 

[Starwynd]

Why is Masturbation a sin anyway?

 

[joeybaggz]

Why is Masturbation a sin anyway?

Within the sacrament of matrimony, it is a serious offense against the dignity of the sacrament and the rights of the other spouse. Onan (who was mentioned in an earlier post) was punished by God because he broke the covenant of Israel with God - that being the obligation to take the wife of a brother who died and give her children according to the law of Moses. Breaking covenants is really a big no-no with God.

As to the act of masturbation, look up the word in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, read the teaching of the Church, and make up your own mind.

 

[distracted]

Within the sacrament of matrimony, it is a serious offense against the dignity of the sacrament and the rights of the other spouse.

I hope you are not saying… or implying that masturbation is not so serious with the un-married?? That is not what the Church teaches…

Onan (who was mentioned in an earlier post) was punished by God because he broke the covenant of Israel with God - that being the obligation to take the wife of a brother who died and give her children according to the law of Moses. Breaking covenants is really a big no-no with God.

I think he also “got it” from God because he was practicing a form of birth-control… True, the offense was worse becaue God had told him to create children… but anyway…

 

[TheDoctor]

Why is Masturbation a sin anyway?

In a nutshell (no pun intended), it is because the Church teaches that the only legitimate use of the sexual faculty is within marriage during the marriage act. Masturbation, along with a host of others, are expressions of lust and go against chastity.

Here is the section of the Catechism that talks specifically about it. It may seem a little wordy but you really have to go and read the whole section to understand what they are talking about.

It may be easier to use the Catholic Answers Forum search feature. There are lots of threads about your specific question.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that can lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

 

[joeybaggz]

I hope you are not saying… or implying that masturbation is not so serious with the un-married?? That is not what the Church teaches…

I think he also “got it” from God because he was practicing a form of birth-control… True, the offense was worse becaue God had told him to create children… but anyway…

All sin is serious. I am implying nothing. The teaching of the church is that the action is a serious matter. However the church does teach that the gravity of an action can and does diminish given certain conditions.

I stand by my original statement. Read the section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and make up your own mind.

As to Onan, he broke a covenant with God, he broke the Mosaic law. For that he was punished. As to extending the meaning of Scripture, you have that right…

And to the original question by Starwynd: Masturbation, and all immoral actions are sins because they are abuses of a gift given to man by God. All sin is an abuse of a gift of God.

 

[joeybaggz]

Thank you Doctor. I couldn’t find a copy of the Catechism and your post provided the section to which I am referring.

The last paragraph is the one designed to guide pastoral reponses to a penitent for the sin described. I can read it no other way than the serious nature of the act is diminished given certain condition.

And, it is not designed to be a “loophole.”

 

[distracted]

Why is Masturbation a sin anyway?

I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but the way you sy this would tend to imply that you don’t think it is a big sin??

Even when i was a child, i knew this was a serious sin… long before i ever heard the Church’s posiition on it…

I believe our conscience tells us this is wrong…

 

[joeybaggz]

I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but the way you sy this would tend to imply that you don’t think it is a big sin??

Even when i was a child, i knew this was a serious sin… long before i ever heard the Church’s posiition on it…

I believe our conscience tells us this is wrong…

A man is so infatuted with his next door neighbor’s young wife that he decides to kill him and take his wife. The act of killing another is a big sin. He knows it is a big sin, he knows that it offends God, he knows the sin is mortal, and he still, with clear understanding of all the implications of his actions, decides to kill his neighbor. And he does.

His neighbor across the street goes out to a tavern with some friends to watch a ball game and have some beers. They have fun and at the end of the evening he realizes that he is intoxicated. He knows he shouldn’t drive, that he could kill someone, but since he has driven home from the tavern before while drunk and nothing happened, he decides to chance it. Bad move. A half a mile from home he doesn’t see a red light, runs the intersection, and kills two teenagers. And while he does understand that his actions could be dangerous, he didn’t set out to deliberately, and, as the law says, with malice of forethought, to kill those kids. Yet, the act of killing another is a big sin.

Meanwhile, his other next door neighbor is out hunting with some buddies. He spies some pheasants, takes the safety off his shotgun and fires at the birds. He misses. As he walks through the field he comes to a fence, and he and his friends decide to climb over it and hunt in the next field. While climbing the fence, he slips and not having put the safety back on, the gun discharges and kills one of his hunting companions. No intent, whatsoever. Yet, the act of killing another is a big sin.

Are all three men equally guilty before God of the mortal sin of murder? All three have committed an act that is considered a big sin.

This is what the church is teaching about masturbation. It is a serious offense. However given conditions of anxiety, habit, immaturity, and other psychological and social conditions, the church teaches that the moral implications are diminished.

I guess more simply put, is someone who is so mentally ill and has no concept of the implications of his action, guilty of a big sin? Especially when “big sin” requires full understanding the nature of the action, and complete consent to it.

 

[Starwynd]

I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but the way you say this would tend to imply that you don’t think it is a big sin??

No, I don’t think it *should *be that big of a sin, personally. Please note it doesn’t mean that I won’t abide by the Church’s teachings on it. Also I’m not a lifelong Catholic only recently converted a few months ago.

But the other question in regards to the statement that “it’s a sin of lust,” then what if a person simply can’t get into an intimate relationship, or simply hasn’t been in one ever? For example, I’m thinking of the movie “40 Year old Virgin”. It’s extremely frustrating not being in such a relationship especially when one is being pressured to be in one by friends and family. There are some people that just are unable to get into such a relationship for various reasons. What are they going to do? Lead a celibate lifestyle without any way to deal with that kind of frustration?

There are some conditions where I can understand where it can be a sin. Such as coming in or on a Church (Leviticus) and public display.

But I personally don’t understand why it would be a sin if a person, guy or gal, is not in a relationship and can’t get into a relationship. I also don’t see the reason for it being wrong for a married couple to stimulate each other and give each other pleasure as well. I don’t see it as true lust because while it may be a sexual act, nobody’s really cheating on anyone. I could be splitting hairs. And some people just can’t have a healthy loving relationship in this world and the only way for them to deal with that frustration is to masturbate once in a while. it’s very tough being alone and lonely.

it just seems more and more that the only reason for sex is for procreation, and nothing else, because of all the weird restrictions on any sexual acts and conditions. Certain sexual positions are sins. using birth control is a sin. Masturbation’s a sin under any circumstances. Extramarital sex is a sin under any circumstances. We must all be married to have unsinful sex.

So on and so forth.

It’s very frustrating and problematic.

 

[onmyknees]

No, I don’t think it *should *be that big of a sin, personally. Please note it doesn’t mean that I won’t abide by the Church’s teachings on it. Also I’m not a lifelong Catholic only recently converted a few months ago.

But the other question in regards to the statement that “it’s a sin of lust,” then what if a person simply can’t get into an intimate relationship, or simply hasn’t been in one ever? For example, I’m thinking of the movie “40 Year old Virgin”. It’s extremely frustrating not being in such a relationship especially when one is being pressured to be in one by friends and family. There are some people that just are unable to get into such a relationship for various reasons. What are they going to do? Lead a celibate lifestyle without any way to deal with that kind of frustration?

There are some conditions where I can understand where it can be a sin. Such as coming in or on a Church (Leviticus) and public display.

But I personally don’t understand why it would be a sin if a person, guy or gal, is not in a relationship and can’t get into a relationship. I also don’t see the reason for it being wrong for a married couple to stimulate each other and give each other pleasure as well. I don’t see it as true lust because while it may be a sexual act, nobody’s really cheating on anyone. I could be splitting hairs. And some people just can’t have a healthy loving relationship in this world and the only way for them to deal with that frustration is to masturbate once in a while. it’s very tough being alone and lonely.

it just seems more and more that the only reason for sex is for procreation, and nothing else, because of all the weird restrictions on any sexual acts and conditions. Certain sexual positions are sins. using birth control is a sin. Masturbation’s a sin under any circumstances. Extramarital sex is a sin under any circumstances. We must all be married to have unsinful sex.

So on and so forth.

It’s very frustrating and problematic.

First, married couples are able to stimulate each other and use different sexual positions as long as it ends with intercourse. Second, lustful thoughts are a sin because they lead to acting on these thoughts, either with masturbation which is a selfish act, fornication or other unchaste actions. The marital act is being abused. The procreative\unitive act between married spouses is holy and beautiful. It is a renewing of their sacramental vows.
Third, birth control also abuses the marital act by altering the act with chemicals and or barriers. It is taking God out of the act. With natural family planning the couple is not saying no to God because they do not alter the act with anything. They may choose to abstain during fertile times which is a natural means and they are remaining open to life. There are many single celebate lay people including those with same sex attraction that have persevered in this chaste lifestyle with the help of Jesus, prayer and frequenting the sacraments. The sacraments give them the grace they need.

 

[TheDoctor]

Thank you Doctor. I couldn’t find a copy of the Catechism and your post provided the section to which I am referring.

You are welcome my brother. FYI, I use the copy on the US Conference of Catholic Bishops website (www.usccb.org) or the compendium at vatican.va

 

[crenfro]

I have a question about this. I had a Bible class with a priest who believed that women should masturbate…adult women. I didn’t ask any questions about why…I was just a bit stunned…

I’m stunned too!

…hope there weren’t any big millstones near him…

 

[Yerusalyim]

Which interpretation includes the teaching that sex should be ONLY for procreation between married couples.

Incorrect, sex is EQUALLY about unititive love and procreation.

The priest in question is not presenting orthodox Catholic teaching.