Several Questions...

[distracted]

No, I don’t think it *should *be that big of a sin, personally. Please note it doesn’t mean that I won’t abide by the Church’s teachings on it. Also I’m not a lifelong Catholic only recently converted a few months ago.

this explains a few things… Before i was deep into Christ (Real Presence, Mass…) i knew it was wrong, but didn’t think it was THAT wrong… Now i feel very differently… Maybe later i will be able to find the words as to why… In a nutshell, i guess it is 'cause i am closer to Jesus… (?)

It’s extremely frustrating not being in such a relationship …

who would know this better than I?? I’ve been alone for many, many yrs… but i would rather be alone than be in some of the unhealthy possible relationships that have come along… and M only seems good for awhile… while it lasts… then come the consequences… (spiritual…). It isn’t worth it… “the wages of sin is death” (separation from a holy God).

There are some people that just are unable to get into such a relationship for various reasons. What are they going to do? Lead a celibate lifestyle without any way to deal with that kind of frustration?

Jesus endured the frustration of the Cross… and He tells usto pick up our crosses & carry them… In other words, a person doesn’t hurry into a relationship (get off his cross…) just because he hasn’t had sex in a long time &/or his “friends” r pressuring him… (Some friends… )

where I can understand where it can be a sin. Such as coming in or on a Church (Leviticus) and public display.

I don’t understand this .

. I also don’t see the reason for it being wrong for a married couple to stimulate each other and give each other pleasure as well.

What does this have to do with the topic - masturb??

I And some people just can’t have a healthy loving relationship in this world and the only way for them to deal with that frustration is to masturbate once in a while. it’s very tough being alone and lonely.

Again, I know how this goes because i have been alone a long time… God did make us sexual creatures… but sinful sex is damaging to us in ways we may not always see… or realize… For one thing, if i was going to marry someone, i would not want to think that he had taken care of himself (as it were) that way… I woould want him to wait for me… In fact, i couldn’t even be attracted to a man who was into that… (don’t ask me how, but I would be able to sense it… from the beginning… would look elsewhere…).

it just seems more and more that the only reason for sex is for procreation, and nothing else, because of all the weird restrictions on any sexual acts and conditions.

Weird restrictions? The Church is just trying to do what Jesus did and does - protect people from themselves… As bad as being alone and lonely/frustrated is or can be, SIN is worse… because then you lose close-ness with the only One who ultimately matters… Marriage is only in this world… it will not continue in Heaven…

dyCertain sexual positions are sins. using birth control is a sin. Masturbation’s a sin under any circumstances. Extramarital sex is a sin under any circumstances. We must all be married to have unsinful sex.

I don’t get it… If you cannot handle the teachings of the Church, why did you convert? didn’t you know that the Church taught against these things??

I think you should spend some time alone with Jesus @ the Blessed Sacrament… He is the only One who really help you to understand…

God bless…

 

[Starwynd]

where I can understand where it can be a sin. Such as coming in or on a Church (Leviticus) and public display.

I don’t understand this

There is a lww in leviticus that states that coming near a church is a sin punishable by death. The only way I can make sense of thise particular passage is if the sin is masterbation, because if it is such a sin to simply be near a church then I don’t see how people can form churches to worship God. having an orgasm is also known as coming.

I also don’t see the reason for it being wrong for a married couple to stimulate each other and give each other pleasure as well.

What does this have to do with the topic - masturb??

Sin of lustful sexual acts. Mastubration ius one and so are these actions.

 

[onmyknees]

Hi Starwynd,
Did you read my post to you? Does this help at all? I hope this helps cuz I know that when I finally came back to my Catholic faith I learned so much! I was not taught anything in Catholic school about what the Church taught.

 

[distracted]

There is a lww in leviticus that states that coming near a church is a sin punishable by death.
.

I’ve read Leviticus, though it has been a long time, don’t remember reading such thing… I don’t believe the bible uses such slang terms… I am wondering if the passage has been misquoted or something??

 

[Starwynd]

Hi Starwynd,
Did you read my post to you? Does this help at all? I hope this helps cuz I know that when I finally came back to my Catholic faith I learned so much! I was not taught anything in Catholic school about what the Church taught.

I did read the post and than you for your response…

it’s really hard to overcome a lifetime of belief for a new life and there will probably always be things that I will always wrestle with, even when I do know and follow the Church’s teachings on such a matter. I’ve never been one for blind faith or belief and always think about what the teachings truly mean and what’s behind them, even if it’s something I fully support.I guess that’s something that’s hard for lifelong or not so new Catholics to understand.

 

[mercygate]

HI,

I enjoyed reading your replies about how to overcome “urges”. I have a question about this. I had a Bible class with a priest who believed that women should masturbate…adult women. I didn’t ask any questions about why…I was just a bit stunned that a priest wouldn’t encourage something better and more religious for frustrated women adults. My question is this: Should a priest be doing this? And, he believed that Mary Magdalene was an intimate friend of Jesus. Has this been proven? Wasn’t the Christ chast? Did he have a sexual relationship with Mary Magdalene? I personally don’t think so but I’m not a theologian and don’t know the whole Bible. I personally hope not. What in the Bible refutes this or agrees with it? And are there excerpts about masturbation in the Bible?

Thanks,

Virgina

Not going to talk about the sex stuff but it is demonstrable from Scripture that Mary Magdalene was among the Lord’s inner circle. No, no **NO **evidence that they had a sexual relationship.

Sigh. What a miserable lack of discretion even to DISCUSS this in a Bible class. Where were you in the Bible?

 

[Muzhik]

Why is Masturbation a sin anyway?

With all the learned responses posted here, I thought I’d give my own 2 kopecks worth.

Matthew 5:28 says, “But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Now, most people would think that sounds a little harsh, dude. But there’s a very good reason for it, and it has to do with basketball. Specifically, free throws.

A couple of decades ago, a psychologist did an experiment. He got 30 students, scored them on how well they shot free throws, and randomly divided them into groups of 10. One group, he had spend half an hour each day doing math problems. (The first control group.) The second group he had spend half an hour each day practicing free throws. (The second control group.) The third group he had stand in the gym, and imagine holding the basketball and practicing free throws, but without actually having a ball. He had them do this for 30 days.

At the end of the 30 days, he tested each group to see how well they did shooting free throws now. The math group had no improvement. The free throw group had significant improvement. What was interesting was that the group that only imagined holding the ball, etc. improved almost as much as the group who had actually thrown the ball. This was the beginning of what we call “visualization.”

Now, I understand some New Age groups have taken over that term, but the concept behind it is still valid. Even if you don’t have the actual basketball in your hand, just picturing it there, feeling its weight, just *visualizing *throwing it, trains your mind and your body to act and react in specific ways to certain situations. In masturbation, we are imagining ourselves with another person, imagining ourselves reacting in a certain way and treating that person in a certain way. In other words, we are **visualizing **our sexual actions and reactions, training our bodies and ourselves to act in ways that may not be loving, giving, and respectful. THAT is why the Lord said that if you look at a woman with lust, you have already committed adultery with her By purposefully and willfully engaging in lustful thoughts about woman, you have begun visualizing (i.e., training yourself) how you will treat her.

<><

 

[mercygate]

With all the learned responses posted here, I thought I’d give my own 2 kopecks worth.

Matthew 5:28 says, “But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Now, most people would think that sounds a little harsh, dude. But there’s a very good reason for it, and it has to do with basketball. Specifically, free throws.

A couple of decades ago, a psychologist did an experiment. He got 30 students, scored them on how well they shot free throws, and randomly divided them into groups of 10. One group, he had spend half an hour each day doing math problems. (The first control group.) The second group he had spend half an hour each day practicing free throws. (The second control group.) The third group he had stand in the gym, and imagine holding the basketball and practicing free throws, but without actually having a ball. He had them do this for 30 days.

At the end of the 30 days, he tested each group to see how well they did shooting free throws now. The math group had no improvement. The free throw group had significant improvement. What was interesting was that the group that only imagined holding the ball, etc. improved almost as much as the group who had actually thrown the ball. This was the beginning of what we call “visualization.”

Now, I understand some New Age groups have taken over that term, but the concept behind it is still valid. Even if you don’t have the actual basketball in your hand, just picturing it there, feeling its weight, just *visualizing *throwing it, trains your mind and your body to act and react in specific ways to certain situations. In masturbation, we are imagining ourselves with another person, imagining ourselves reacting in a certain way and treating that person in a certain way. In other words, we are **visualizing **our sexual actions and reactions, training our bodies and ourselves to act in ways that may not be loving, giving, and respectful. THAT is why the Lord said that if you look at a woman with lust, you have already committed adultery with her By purposefully and willfully engaging in lustful thoughts about woman, you have begun visualizing (i.e., training yourself) how you will treat her.

<><

OK, Muzhik: I am visualising myself with a pure heart and mind, praising and worshiping my Lord in the study of His Word, throught participation in the Sacraments of His Church, in perfect love with God and neighbor . . . How’s that? :bounce:

 

[Starwynd]

Okay.

I’m visualising myself turning green and eight feet tall and able to rip main battle tanks in four and jump three miles.

So I should be able to do all of that. Just because I think it.

 

[distracted]

Okay.

So… Again, the question: If you didn’t like the teachings of the Church on sexual purity, why did you join??

Did someone drag you into the Church kicking and screaming??

No, i am NOT being sacrastic… I just want to know…

 

[Starwynd]

If you didn’t like the teachings of the Church on sexual purity, why did you join?

I apologize, but that is a private matter that I am not comfortable talking about at all. The only person I’ve talked to about this matter is my Priest, not my mother and certainly not my friends.

However, I would say that it this kind of thing, having problems with different dogma and teachings, would crop up with any sect of Christianity.

 

[ForwardProgress]

So what did your priest say on the matter?

 

[Starwynd]

Pretty much to follow the teachings of the Church and let God deal with it.

 

[newbetx]

Also I’m not a lifelong Catholic only recently converted a few months ago.
…
it just seems more and more that the only reason for sex is for procreation, and nothing else, because of all the weird restrictions on any sexual acts and conditions. Certain sexual positions are sins. using birth control is a sin. Masturbation’s a sin under any circumstances. Extramarital sex is a sin under any circumstances. We must all be married to have unsinful sex.

It’s very frustrating and problematic.

I, too have had trouble with understanding the Churches teachings. I didn’t care for years. I thought the Church was either wrong or trying to pull a fast one. Something broke me free. Opened my eyes. Brought me to understanding. IF you are willing to look at things, not from what you’ve always heard, but from a fresh perspective, then it DOES make sense. Have you heard of the Theology of the Body? (TOB)

 

[fellowChristian]

1 Corinthians 7
Teaching on Marriage

1Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man **not to **touch a woman.

2But because of** immoralities**, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

3The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.

4The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

5Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, **and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. **

6But this I say by way of concession, not of command.

7Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

8But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I.

9But** if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. **

Read the rest here:
usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians7.htm

Catechism of the Catholic Church

V. The Goods and Requirements of Conjugal Love

The openness to fertility
**1654 **
Spouses to whom God has not granted children can nevertheless have a conjugal life full of meaning, in both human and Christian terms. Their marriage can radiate a fruitfulness of charity, of hospitality, and of sacrifice.

Read the whole thing here:
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3art7.htm#v

But basically any sex outside of marriage is a sin.Even if it’s just yourself.

 

[JCismywingman]

sorry for hijacking this thread cos this would seem some what out of place here, but here goes:

some time back some where else on this forum, it was posted that within a marriage, foreplay/mutual masturbation within lovemaking so long as it ends with the actual act which allows for procreation is fine… further along, some one posted that it is not alright for the male to climax from the foreplay/mutual masturbation as that would be sinning since it would not allow for procreation, but it would be alright if the woman climaxed so long as after that the couple do engage in the proper act where procreation is possible. Is this sound at all?

 

[Marauder]

some time back some where else on this forum, it was posted that within a marriage, foreplay/mutual masturbation within lovemaking so long as it ends with the actual act which allows for procreation is fine… further along, some one posted that it is not alright for the male to climax from the foreplay/mutual masturbation as that would be sinning since it would not allow for procreation, but it would be alright if the woman climaxed so long as after that the couple do engage in the proper act where procreation is possible. Is this sound at all?

The difference is intent. If the married couple is using foreplay/mutal masturbation as a precursor to the real event and the man accidentally orgasms it isn’t a sin. Also, if a man is able they can continue later. A woman’s orgasm doesn’t affect the reproduction (other then a women is more fertile when sexually excited) or end the session like it can in the man’s case. So it doesn’t matter if a woman has an orgasm before, during, or after actual intercourse as long as the intent is to have intercourse.

 

[Starwynd]

Have you heard of the Theology of the Body? (TOB)

No, I’ve never heard of the term.

 

[newbetx]

No, I’ve never heard of the term.

TOB is really an eye opener. Once I got ahold of it SO many things about the faith makes sense to me. John Paul II started digging into things concerning our bodies and sexuallity a long time ago. Eventually, over the course of 5 years, he presented portions of the concepts at the “weekly audiences.” The collection of those talks is known as the “Theology of the Body.”

This is “new” to many. But if you are like me, you can sense why it is true from your own experiences. Because I was married and DW and I were, ah, discussing the Churches stance on things, I decided to go get some concrete information about “the rules.” (I really should have taken the name “Thomas” at my confirmation…) She knew the “no” stuff pretty well, but wasn’t able to share “why.” So I went to go get “why.” I came to CAF for suggestions and They talked about TOB and Christopher West and The Good News About Sex and Marriage (TGNAS&M)

Christopher West has made it his passion to bring JP II’s language down to a common person’s understanding. I really like his books. Like Theology of the Body for Beginners, and his talks. His talks are a bit over the top for my tastes, but they are still very informative. There is lots of free audios out there I can point you to if you are interested.

I heard annother speaker, a Fr. Ricardo, do a series of four, one hour “warm up” talks about TOB. These are really good and free. I’ll have to go dig them up if you want them.

So much we hear about “body bad, spirit good.” and “Spirit useless but body is Great.” There is a middle ground where BOTH are good. And it makes sense. It’s TOB. It’s a big puzzle, almost. But as the pieces drop, they all fall in place.

TOB would answer the OP’s questions about what the priest told her. From what I know about history, the Priest was probably misinformed about female sexual function. Today, we know a lot more than say 60 years ago. And the great thing about TOB is that in proper context, sex is a wonderful gift from God. But like all gifts, we are expected to properly use it. Make sense?

 

[distracted]

I

having problems with different dogma and teachings, would crop up with any sect of Christianity.

True… but you had to have been catechized before entering the Church (Easter?)… and RCIA classes ususally go over every important detail of the Faith before baptizing or confirming one in the Faith…

@ least asusming that the RCIA insturctor is orthodox…