Sex as a Married Catholic

[happy_new_conv]

PART 1:

Hello everyone. I read the rules for this forum, and I really hope my post makes it… if it’s too graphic and must be removed, I understand… I will try to find some other place to get the help I desperately need. I hope this doesn’t get too long… and that if it does, the right person will be able to finish it and give me some advice.

My name is Anthony, I’m an American man, age 26. I married my “high school sweetheart” when I was 18 years old - as soon as I could afford it (though looking back… I can’t believe how young, foolish, and POOR I was!).

Her and I have an incredible marriage. We have always been best friends: there is no topic that is unapproachable, and we do everything together. Our personalities blend perfectly… we compliment each other perfectly… with just a couple exceptions, we’ve never even fought (when we did, it never got heated - just intense - and both times were over the disrespectful way my father treats her). She is my business partner… my everything. After 8 years of marriage, I just can’t imagine anyone has the type of marriage that we have.

When we married, my wife was a Baptist, and I was a “…Christian…” (meaning, I prayed to Christ and believed in Him, but never went to church). I went to my wife’s church almost weekly during our 9 month engagement, and even though it bored me to death, I made the best of it.

We both saved ourselves for marriage: she, because she was raised in a good home (I wasn’t) and had a tough-as-nails moral background (I didn’t), and me, because of some divine… angelic protection, is all I can conclude. There was nothing else stopping me… I have always been a decent looking dude, but somehow I made it through high school without crossing that sacred boundary - THANK GOD.

Our engagement was very strained, physically. We both wanted each other so badly, and while we never crossed that final line, we certainly got very close on many occasions, and did things that, had I not married her, I would have had a hard time explaining to whoever came next.

After marriage, and with that one area of stress removed, our relationship was excellent. We were poor devils, financially, but we got by. Where we came from, it was encouraged to “wait to have kids until you’re ready”, and so she went on birth control - ‘the pill’.

(Now of course, we see the sad perils of this grave action - not to mention the disastrous health side effects - but believe it or not, it was actually encouraged by her well-intentioned protestant parents).

We stayed this way for three years, until we began moving down the road of more healthy living, and examining the food and cleaning products in our house, etc. When we realized how terrible ‘the pill’ is for you, she stopped taking it, and we switched to using condoms.

(Please keep in mind that we literally had no idea that this was immoral. We’d been raised to believe that we were being responsible, and our consciences hadn’t developed to the point where we could see that birth control is a slippery slope that can only lead to the systematic slaughter of millions of children every year.)

We used condoms until November 2011, when, after an amazing dinner with her grandparents, we realized that we were ready to begin a family - and not just that, but that we had delayed it far too long. By this time, we’d gotten to a very comfortable position in life. I’d become very skilled at business, and we enjoyed a life of plenty. New cars… anything we wanted. We had no good reason to wait any longer to start a family, and when it struck us, we immediately went home and “began trying”.

We got pregnant either that night, or the next night - we’re still not sure which one it was

Our little girl is the best thing that has ever happened to either of us. We each love her with our whole hearts, and it’s brought us together like nothing else ever could have. I DEFINITELY recommend that anyone in our position GETS STARTED, because kids are a blast, and we’re so happy.

Early on in our pregnancy, we decided to get serious about starting a tradition for our family, rather than the silly religion that we had then. Our search for a spiritual home that would lead to growth, of course led to the most brilliant minds on the planet, including Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, GK Chesterson, and Hilarire Belloc. They all pointed toward Catholicism, and after a year of attending weekly mass, we entered RCIA.

We joined the church officially this Easter, and we both are SO thrilled to have done so. It’s such a warm faith, and we love it.

NOW THAT YOU HAVE THE BACKGROUND… let me get to the point of this post.

Sex has always been one of my favorite parts of the relationship between my wife and I. Ever since the night of our wedding, we’ve been ‘active’. We’ve never done anything “weird” or degrading- we’ve just really enjoyed each other.

I’ve always loved our open-ness, and this physical side of our relationship. It’s such a stress-eliminator, and it helps me think clearly, and yadda yadda. She enjoys it as well, but being a woman, I don’t think she’s capable of “needing” it the same way I do - but she’s always been very willing and eager to meet my level of “need”. Without making her sound like a push-over (she’s definitely NOT), I’d say she’s always been a very good, accommodating companion in this regard- whether she’s “in the mood” or not. And I have thanked her and God for that willingness on many, many occasions. I couldn’t live without it.

And that’s the problem.

 

[happy_new_conv]

PART 2:

Now that we’re new Catholics, we are committed to not being “cafeteria Catholics”. We want to be SAINTS - we really want to meet every personal challenge that the Church has identified over the last 2,000 years, and follow the incredible wisdom that the church provides.

Before we officially became Catholic, we decided to GIVE UP birth control forever. We instead learned all about Natural Family Planning, and practice that.

We also learned that … eh… masturbation is bad. Now I didn’t do that ALL the time, but I’d say I did it a couple times per week. Sometimes less. She did it too - we just did it when we were too busy with the businesses and work. Neither of us minded, it was nothing like that. It never took away from our relationship together, and 99% of the time, I only used it as a tool to be able to get to friggen sleep. BUT, after we learned that the Church and the Catechism teach against it, we both committed to stopping. For her, stopping was just a decision, and that’s it. For me, it’s like a stupid drug that I’m addicted to. I’ve already had to confess it once since Easter, and I already have to confess it again. These failures are a real blow to me, and I can’t believe how my mind is able to justify this behavior and convince me that is isn’t ACTUALLY bad… even though immediately afterward… once that stress is relieved, the painful realization of what I just did comes shooting back, and I feel like a real creep. It sucks, and I hate it.

BUT: I can deal with that. I know I can win that battle, and I love that the Church is there to help me do so. I GET it. I UNDERSTAND why this behavior truly is “self abuse”, and not conducive to a healthy mind. I understand it, and I WANT to not be a slave to any sort of thing - especially that.

BUT… HERE’S WHAT I CAN’T DEAL WITH:

One of the other things that we learned, is that in terms of sex between married people, it’s not permissible for the… eh… and I’m sorry if this is too graphic… “man to finish anywhere except inside the woman’s” … you know what. Sorry about that… anyway:

This is just too much for me. Suddenly, all at once, I can’t relieve my own stress… and my wife and I can’t have sex during almost half the month when she’s either cycling or ovulating, and now, she can’t relieve my stress for me during this time either.

The other day, we were fooling around in bed, and we had to stop, because, as she put it, she didn’t want to “do something to me that she’d have to confess”. It crushed me so badly. I just can’t believe God would give me this amazing marriage, and then there’s something that her and I could do together that is a grave, mortal sin. Something that’s not the gross, disrespectful stuff that you hear about (weird black leather / whip type junk).

It just crushes me. I can’t believe that after so many years of doing stuff together that has added so much value to my life, I am having this rug torn out from under me, and all that’s acceptable is “good old fashioned sex”.

Now… I know that the correct answer here to just forget about natural family planning, and have tons of kids. 8… 10… maybe 14 kids before she becomes infertile. However, that’s just not going to happen with us. We want a BIG family, but to us, that means 5 or 6 kids, and we want to space them out to be roughly two years apart. If she becomes infertile before then, we’ll adopt the rest. But suffice it to say, we’re not going to have 14 kids. And I really think we would: my wife and I are in perfect health… she’s VERY fertile, with a body ideal for having children (we had our baby at home, and she labored for only 2 hours, and pushed for about 5 minutes - she recovered VERY quickly to boot- what a champ!).

So we’re not going to do that.

This is the biggest difference between my wife and I that I’ve ever encountered- or at least, the one that cuts at me so deeply: she is perfectly able, willing, and eager to stop all sort of sexual things that don’t follow that rule quoted above. It’s not even a challenge for her. According to her, the Catholic Church teaches it, and so she’s eager to abide by that rule.

Not me. Masturbation certainly does twinge my conscience, and I feel the need to confess that afterward. But this other stuff that we can do together… that doesn’t seem bad to me at all. To me, it seems like a great thing, and that it’s going to crush me… my soul… and my marriage to cut it out. I literally feel like my internal energy is gutted out over this. I just can’t believe that at such a young age, all this “fun stuff” that I love is now off the table forever. That it’s sinful!

 

[happy_new_conv]

PART 3:

And worst of all, I am afraid to press the issue, because I don’t want to cause her to do something that she would feel guilty for. I would rather go to hell a thousand times than cause her to go there once. I would lay down my wife for her in a moment, and so how asininely backward would it be for me to take THAT vow, but then lead her into sin? No way.

So- you can see my dilemma here. I can’t press the issue with her, but I have no other options. I either need proof that “this other stuff” is okay, OR I need some serious advice with how to deal with losing these things.

I have a feeling how this is going to go. You’re going to tell me “yeah, that’s right- all that stuff is bad, and only regular sex is okay - deal with it”, and I’m going to have to learn to deal with it. I have a feeling this is the rule, because God doesn’t want us getting attached to our bodies or this earth, and “this fun stuff” is probably an over-indulgence of our earth bodies.

I just love it so much, and I miss it so much, and I am so crushed that she doesn’t miss it at all… that she’s not fighting to be able to keep that stuff like I am. I just don’t even know what to do. I feel like just scraping all the sex, and only doing it when we want our next kid… sort of a petty, childish “if I’m not supposed to enjoy it, then fine- I won’t enjoy it” thing. I just am floored at the idea that at my young age, all that’s gone. And at the same time, I am thanking God for such a virtuous wife. What a crazy deal.

The thing that irks me the most, is that I feel that there’s no solid, un-debated concept on this area. Flipping through a book about confessions, I even saw a passage during a conscience examination that said “have you only engaged in marituals during times when you are infertile, thus intentionally separating pregnancy from the sex act?” This indicates that the entire concept of Natural Family Planning - which is as I understand it a catholic concept to begin with - is NOT something that’s agreed on by all Catholics?? So, do you confess it or don’t you?? Is it a matter of individual conscience? WHEN do we find this out? Am I going to live my whole life in misery, OR force myself to become half of who I am, only to learn when I’m 80 that this teaching about “only finish in the …etc” was just a matter for individual conscience??

And if not… if this IS an absolute, and it doesn’t matter whether I feel like it’s good or bad, HOW do I go about destroying these desires that I have?

I know that in another 6 months, we’ll begin trying to get pregnant again, and this issue will become less of a priority. But that’s beside the point to me. I don’t want this stuff to stop, even if we can freely have “good old fashion sex” every day. I love doing this stuff with her in addition to the real thing, and - perhaps overly selfishly - I don’t want to give it up.

I hope one of you can see where I am, and see what advice I need. I promise to listen, and learn.

Thank you for your help, and for reading this crazy-long post.

-Anthony

 

[underacloud]

Hi Anthony, welcome to the forum!

So- you can see my dilemma here. I can’t press the issue with her, but I have no other options. I either need proof that “this other stuff” is okay, OR I need some serious advice with how to deal with losing these things.

I have a feeling how this is going to go. You’re going to tell me “yeah, that’s right- all that stuff is bad, and only regular sex is okay - deal with it”, and I’m going to have to learn to deal with it. I have a feeling this is the rule, because God doesn’t want us getting attached to our bodies or this earth, and “this fun stuff” is probably an over-indulgence of our earth bodies.

Yes, I think “deal with it” is what you will hear. It is the only position consistent with Catholic teaching. So hopefully you can get some good advice on how to deal with it.

A few ideas:

a) work on expressing your love in non-physical ways. NFP can be seen as a gift in this light, by allowing us to put aside our carnal desires and focus on the true beauty of our spouses.

b) avoid any sort of arousal during NFP abstinence periods, because it would only make you more and more frustrated. This takes some getting used to, but you’ll get there.

c) consider that fasting has long been a traditional act of penance/offering to God. Fasting from sex can be seen in a similar way. We put aside physical pleasure for the sake of God, so we can focus on Him and not be constantly feeding our physical desires (for food, sex, whatever).

…I am so crushed that she doesn’t miss it at all… that she’s not fighting to be able to keep that stuff like I am.

I think you’ve already suggested that you know men and women have different “needs” as you put it for sex. Females often (not always) have a lower sex drive than their partners, so this may be a natural part of it. But don’t try to make her choose between God and you. You can’t…or at least shouldn’t…win that battle. I know that’s not what you mean, but just try to think about the position you’d be placing her in by pushing the issue,

The thing that irks me the most, is that I feel that there’s no solid, un-debated concept on this area. Flipping through a book about confessions, I even saw a passage during a conscience examination that said “have you only engaged in marituals during times when you are infertile, thus intentionally separating pregnancy from the sex act?” This indicates that the entire concept of Natural Family Planning - which is as I understand it a catholic concept to begin with - is NOT something that’s agreed on by all Catholics?? So, do you confess it or don’t you?? Is it a matter of individual conscience? WHEN do we find this out? Am I going to live my whole life in misery, OR force myself to become half of who I am, only to learn when I’m 80 that this teaching about “only finish in the …etc” was just a matter for individual conscience??

There is absolutely rock-solid teaching and agreement in this matter. NFP can be used by a couple who have serious reasons for avoiding pregnancy. Just what a “serious reason” might be is an open matter for debate, so perhaps that’s why you find it confusing. But there is clear teaching that NFP used for serious (or “just”) reasons is perfectly fine. You, as a couple, need to work through whether your reasons are serious, and your pastor can help you with this.

Some people even suggest that NFP is such a challenge that only people with serious reasons would do it anyway!

 

[rmbrulotte]

I have no easy answer for you. My husband and I have been married for 12 years and have been open to life/used NFP the entire time. And it isn’t fun. Most couples I know who live out the teachings of the church regarding contraception/sex do not “enjoy” it. It is more fun to do what you want, when you want it! I think it is a burden, a cross if you will. I guess in one way it helps you really be aware if you really need to avoid pregnancy. A lot of people/groups speak of nfp and living out the Church’s teachings regarding sex as wonderful and full of nothing but joy. It is not true and I hope no one gave you that impression.In the long run, yes, your conversion and application of the Church’s teachings will yield great fruit, but the daily struggle, desires, etc are not easy.

And as far as NFP being a sin it is not and I advise you to stay away from those extreme viewpoints, though I am sure some who hold them will comment on your post.

I think in time you will begin to see how living this out is good for you and your marriage. But right now the task seems so humongous and such a huge change. I suggest taking it day by day instead of worrying about tomorrow or next week or next year. “Today I am not going to do xyz…” That gets you off the hook for tomorrow and puts you in the here and now. Maybe by focusing on practicing the Church’s teaching in that moment rather than getting anxious for the future, you will see how this conversion is being used to get you closer to God. So for example, today if your wife is fertile and you guys are avoiding but you really want sex/masturbation/etc.and you decide that you aren’t going to act on it, maybe you instead come up with a new way to show your wife you love her or ask her for something else that she CAN give you. I hope that makes sense.

My husband and I struggle with these same issues ourselves. It is hard. Please don’t turn inward and avoid your wife completely when she is not “available.” I think that is a common mistake made by men who struggle to remain chaste within their marriages, especially during their wives’ fertile times. I wish you the best and will keep you in my prayers as you struggle.

 

[happy_new_conv]

Exactly what I expected to hear (thus pointing to the truthfulness of it, I reckon), and absolutely the worst news I’ve received in a long time. I feel like a black hole is sucking me in. A life time of this… I just can’t imagine that. How can I find myself tearfully regretting having found the Catholic Church now, and not in 5 … or 20 years? How can my obedience imprison me instead of liberate me?

How can something hurt so badly? How can I start a dozen companies in a year, and manage them in a few hours per week… but have something like this feel so impossible?

I know the walk toward becoming a saint is not easy - and that how hard it is, is one of the few promises we get from God. I know that, but why doesn’t it comfort me?

I find myself feeling defeated, sitting here. I feel miserable. Yes, I know it’s so selfish- and that certainty only makes me feel more sick and depraved.

If I can have these “fun things”, even just once during an NFP-prohibitive time, I am able to focus on life… and God… and business in such a diligent, clear way. But without them, it’s all I can think about. I haven’t spent this much time in an immature mental place since I was 16…! Thinking about ways to replace that ‘release’ occupies so much of my mind. How sickening!?

I don’t know if or how I can do this. I feel that I have a very high self-esteem… and I literally have everything I could ever want. But this… this kills me! Oh God, I feel like I’m dying over this silly - but at the same time, epic - issue. How silly is this… I feel like a whining baby.

I crave wisdom… I spend hours each day chasing it. I pour into the written word of wise men, and I beg God for a little bit more wisdom. And yet, over this little issue, I feel my fortitude dwindling. I know I will NEVER put my wife or her soul in harm’s way, and so I know the only alternative to success is to turn inward… and that scares the **** out of me.

I envision myself, 40 years old, putting up a facade of being a good Catholic, taking communion each week, but really I’ve just justified and rationalized some self-release. That’s what I see, and it freaks me out.

How can this be…? Uhg! I have no idea where to turn. I will pray of course, but I already feel failure coming, and I know the expectation almost always come true.

 

[underacloud]

How can this be…? Uhg! I have no idea where to turn. I will pray of course…

And that, my friend, is precisely why God allows us to be tested at times. We look for answers, we turn and turn again to find someone who will give us the answer. But God wants us to turn to Him. Not always to find an answer, but just because He wants our attention for a while!

There is no easy answer. It is hard. I struggle through it (I’m a married man, BTW). But sacrifice has value. We grow closer to God when we forgo certain pleasures (sex, food, other material goods, etc). And we grow closer to our spouses when we forgo our physical desires and focus on loving each other in other ways. Try to love God and your wife even more during those times. It might not make those times any easier, but it will give it all some meaning.

 

[rmbrulotte]

Exactly what I expected to hear (thus pointing to the truthfulness of it, I reckon), and absolutely the worst news I’ve received in a long time. I feel like a black hole is sucking me in. A life time of this… I just can’t imagine that. How can I find myself tearfully regretting having found the Catholic Church now, and not in 5 … or 20 years? How can my obedience imprison me instead of liberate me?

How can something hurt so badly? How can I start a dozen companies in a year, and manage them in a few hours per week… but have something like this feel so impossible?

I know the walk toward becoming a saint is not easy - and that how hard it is, is one of the few promises we get from God. I know that, but why doesn’t it comfort me?

I find myself feeling defeated, sitting here. I feel miserable. Yes, I know it’s so selfish- and that certainty only makes me feel more sick and depraved.

If I can have these “fun things”, even just once during an NFP-prohibitive time, I am able to focus on life… and God… and business in such a diligent, clear way. But without them, it’s all I can think about. I haven’t spent this much time in an immature mental place since I was 16…! Thinking about ways to replace that ‘release’ occupies so much of my mind. How sickening!?

I don’t know if or how I can do this. I feel that I have a very high self-esteem… and I literally have everything I could ever want. But this… this kills me! Oh God, I feel like I’m dying over this silly - but at the same time, epic - issue. How silly is this… I feel like a whining baby.

I crave wisdom… I spend hours each day chasing it. I pour into the written word of wise men, and I beg God for a little bit more wisdom. And yet, over this little issue, I feel my fortitude dwindling. I know I will NEVER put my wife or her soul in harm’s way, and so I know the only alternative to success is to turn inward… and that scares the **** out of me.

I envision myself, 40 years old, putting up a facade of being a good Catholic, taking communion each week, but really I’ve just justified and rationalized some self-release. That’s what I see, and it freaks me out.

How can this be…? Uhg! I have no idea where to turn. I will pray of course, but I already feel failure coming, and I know the expectation almost always come true.

Just a friendly reminder here: you are human. You are going to screw up. Often. And God calls us to the sacrament of Reconciliation to confess our sins and renew the state of our souls. So you do not need to worry about living a lie or putting up a facade. Because we all struggle to become holy. So did the saints, some enduring horrific persecution and death.

Again, take this ONE DAY at a time. You are projecting way too far in the future. Do not worry. You have no idea what is in store for you. God might choose to reveal something to you tomorrow that will make it easier. On the other hand, trust me when I say that life can get so bad that you wish that struggling to stay chaste was your biggest source of turmoil.

Might I suggest fasting at least one day a month. It can be a transformative experience…though it took me 13 years to figure that out!

 

[Auntie_A]

Just love God first and then love your wife. If you mess up and fall back into old ways, go to confession and don’t make an Act of Congress about it. Your sins are no better or worse than anyone else’s. You kind of strike me as a person thinking he is going to travel into a desert and not have water! That is the “NO-NO” focus on faith. NO this, NO that. Instead, keep your eye on the prize, Man. The YES. Yes, you are going towards a beautiful GARDEN, a LOVELY TROPICAL JUNGLE with the most glorious life forms. God is your destination. God knows your story. God knows your weaknesses and illusions, and “comfort food”. When you fall off the path, HUMBLE yourself, confess, and get back on the road. Don’t get all perfectionistic. Don’t get all self-centered. The world taught you all of this pride and gimme stuff. Just learn humility and love.

By the way, you are a very fortunate man. God has already blessed you immensely. Your happiness is contagious!

 

[GreyRabbit]

Now, don’t take this the wrong way but it sounds like you’ve made sex to be your idol of pleasure. It’s rather concerning to hear that you seemingly can’t focus/function without having it whenever/however you want and that it relieves your stress. I think that, by learning Catholic teaching, you are learning that sex is not for personal pleasure to have whenever, that it’s a beautiful gift that God gave us, allowing us to actually take part in creation!

But even though it’s pleasurable, it IS meant for pro-creation. Another poster in a different thread rightly compared it to an eye. The OP was asking why sex has to be about children, and the poster replied that it was like asking why the eye has to be about seeing. God made it for that purpose.

In any case, again, the fact that you are in such agony over this, that you can’t function, seems to me that you have placed sex on a very high pedestal. In which case, I’m going to say that this is going to be a sacrifice you’ll have to offer up. And you can tell Him this, you can tell Him how it’s hard, but that you’re going to offer it up for the love you bear Him and your family.

You’ve asked (and forgive me if I get this wrong, your posts are quite long!) about how can being obedient be liberating, and not imprisoning when you feel this way? Well, I think you’re actually feeling the effects of the imprisonment you’ve been in without realizing you were in it. Obedience to God is liberating because when you are obedient to Him, you don’t suffer the consequences of sin. For example, if I murder someone (a sin) then I have to go to jail (consequence of sin). If I lie (a sin) then I have separated myself from God and now have to deal with guilt and repercussions when the truth comes out, including the fact that now I won’t be trusted (consequence of sin).

You’ve learned that there are certain sexual practices (such as orgasm outside your wife) that are sinful, and hey, the Enemy was perfectly fine with you doing those things! But now that you know it’s wrong, you are feeling the effects of your imprisonment, by not being able to let it go and function without it during the times that you need to do so.

Don’t think too harshly of your wife, whom you feel doesn’t need it/want it as much as you. I don’t want to put words in her mouth so to speak, but it could be she doesn’t want to burden you with her desires because she knows you’re struggling. Either way, I do admire you for your conviction in not wanting to do anything that would make her feel guilty/uncomfortable. And it’s good that you are thankful for her, now ask to be made worthy of her, that you may bring both of you to holiness.

This is going to be one heck of a struggle for you because you’re struggling against the Enemy, who would have you give in to your pleasures without a thought. (And truth be told, it rather sounds like this is an addiction). But you can’t give up the fight, and you can’t stop praying, keep going to confession as often as you need, and if need be, set up a time to meet with your priest and talk to him about it. It’s going to take a long time. You say you’re so young, smiles, guess what? I’m the same age as you, and yes, I am married. But while our youth is a great thing, that lets us be active in many things, sex should not be the highlight of our youth. We are young enough that we can enjoy certain…ah… aspects? lol of sex, but we are old enough to be responsible about it too, and to be good role models for others, particularly for when our children grow up and talks come up.

I suggest that along with prayer, and offering this up, that you find new and healthy ways of relieving stress and getting out energy. Exercise is a great way to do so. Go out for a jog or run, lift weights. After all, you’re young! Playing a recreational sport is a good idea too. And find other ways to express love. Take her out to a nice dinner, or cook for her. Bring her flowers just because. Send her a random text message, leave a little paper message where she’ll find it and surprise her. Help out around the house more (lol), if you don’t already

1 Corinthians 10:13 “No testing has overtaken you that is not common to everyone. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tested beyond your strength, but with the testing he will also provide the way out so that you may be able to endure it.”

May God bless you all the days of your life, one day at a time!

-Grey

 

[happy_new_conv]

Friends,

I know you’re right, and I feel a little peace over it this morning (perhaps a few of your prayers made it through)… It is still very difficult, but it helps me to know that other comrades of mine are having the same struggles, and are overcoming them, and offering them up.

I believe there may be some physical addictive thing interfering here… After all these years of conditioning… There’s a Green Day song with a line that says “the bigger that you go, oh, the harder you’re gunna fall”. Well, I guess I went pretty big with this one, and I guess now I’m falling pretty hard.

You guys are right… I could never highlight every line that resounded with me so much.

I took Agnes of Rome as my patron, anticipating this crazy battle. Please pray a couple more times for me.

Gray, I think I will PM you later on this evening, if you don’t mind. You’re a guy my age… I have a feeling you can help me. It’s fantastic that I could meet you here: I am already very grateful for that, because I think you might be just what the doctor ordered.

Again… thank you all. You could have been far harsher in your replies to my selfishness- that too would have hurt. Instead: you helped.

Thank you, friends.

Anthony

 

[agapewolf]

Instead of viewing this as a rule of something you’re not allowed to do, perhaps change the perspective and learn more about TOB-- learn what true love is in marriage. How to love and honor and serve your wife better. What the real unity of sex is in marriage. Then when you reorient your brain, and work for the good, and start to detest the bad, and it can become something you won’t desire.

 

[GreyRabbit]

Instead of viewing this as a rule of something you’re not allowed to do, perhaps change the perspective and learn more about TOB-- learn what true love is in marriage. How to love and honor and serve your wife better. What the real unity of sex is in marriage. Then when you reorient your brain, and work for the good, and start to detest the bad, and it can become something you won’t desire.

^This

 

[GreyRabbit]

Grey, I think I will PM you later on this evening, if you don’t mind. You’re a guy my age…

Lol, of course you can PM me, but let me clarify: I’m a woman. =) So I understand if you change your mind about PMing me. I just hope it doesn’t make you dislike the advice I’d given, if you had found it useful!

 

[agapewolf]

I meant to suggest a couple books too.

“Theology of the Body for Beginners” and “Good news about sex and marriage” by Christopher West

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Hi Anthony!

I read your background story, and how you guys became Catholic, and thought, how beautiful! I could see how you love your wife, through your words, and thought, how beautiful! I can tell your wife is a beautiful person. I love how you are aware we are called to be saints. You both are far ahead of many cradle Catholics in your journey, and in such a short time. Your commitment and zeal is beautiful. No wonder the devil is attacking you!!! He cannot stand this. You guys have discovered the Truth and are actually working to live It!!! I know things may seem overwhelming now, but ask God to help you out. You aren’t going to be that man you envisioned if you lean on Him to help you through this. Did you know that every time you go to confession you receive special graces to deal with the sins you confessed? If you need to go every week for months because you keep falling in the same sin, go every week! Start the battle against it again after confession, and if you fall again, go to confession again. Each time you you to confession (which the devil despises confession btw) you will be gaining strength to overcome that sin.

Read Humanae Vitae when you get a chance if you want an authoritative document on the subject. There is more out there, but that is what I could think of off the bat.

 

[crazzeto]

Hi! Welcome to the forums and welcome home!

There’s a lot to your post, so there’s one part in particular I want to focus on because I can directly relate to it:

Neither of us minded, it was nothing like that. It never took away from our relationship together, and 99% of the time, I only used it as a tool to be able to get to friggen sleep.

Before I reverted to the Catholic faith from secularism, I was well into sexual immorality. I used the shot with my girl friend (actually injected her my self), I advocated the pill because it was easier for me, or at the very least used condoms. I also masturbated nightly, and I did so for exactly this reason you put here. It got to the point where I literally could not sleep without masturbating, I kid you not. There were even nights where I was so tired all I wanted to do was sleep, I didn’t even have the energy to masturbate but I did it anyway because if I didn’t no matter how tired I was I could not sleep.

It took a while into my reversion, but looking back I realize that you could say I was almost addicted to masturbation, and that kind of gratification. I think that says a lot, and it says a lot about how we view sex. Today I’m recently a new member of the KoC which means like you I have chosen the path of in no way being a cafeteria Catholic. It can be difficult, very difficult. Even things like, as you mention, only being able to finish in that one specific place.

Just keep in mind that if we can’t accept that one small ‘limitation’, then perhaps we have a very serious attachment to disordered sex (don’t worry, today this is very common so you are in good company). I think it helps to focus on the beauty of the act, and the love you have for your wife. I would recommend very highly not setting your disordered passions and what you and your wife did in the past as ‘the standard’, but rather sit down with your wife and have a good heart to heart. Set a new standard of what it means to have a good sexual relationship, one not based on disordered acts but one based on your love for each other.

I guess what I’m saying might at first sound a little depressing, I hope you don’t take it to mean there’s no passion or fun in your sexual life. My wife and I did struggle a lot, we went back and forth on condoms a few times, fought A LOT (bitterly), generally struggled etc etc. In our case it was my wife having this issue actually, I was the one desperately trying to hold on for dear life. By the grace of God (literally, God answered my prayers there is no doubt) we made it through that, we’ve talked some and we now have a fantastic sexual relationship again. It is full of passion, and we’ve even turned it into a bit of a game not using contraception and both of us being VERY open to life (we keep throwing out numbers between 7 and 12 kids which we are both ok with). We were having fun last night talking about relying less on NFP and just playing ‘sexual roulette’.

I guess whatever you guys want to do is up to you, I can understand not being able to have as many kids as we want. But don’t think there has to be no passion in your relationship, don’t think good sex is defined by acts that means the male is finishing in places on his spouse other than where he licitly can etc. I would say start where you did, with love for God, then build your own standard of what you want to do with your wife within the framework of what is licit. I think when you drop the baggage of your past, you’ll find that there is still a WIDE valley of room to have a lot of fun with your wife.

 

[crazzeto]

I have no easy answer for you. My husband and I have been married for 12 years and have been open to life/used NFP the entire time. And it isn’t fun. Most couples I know who live out the teachings of the church regarding contraception/sex do not “enjoy” it. It is more fun to do what you want, when you want it!

My wife and I struggled a lot, so I do know where your coming from here. But I don’t know, and I admit I’m not the one who had issues… I actually think NFP is fun. I even think there is some fun in the TTA part, and like I said earlier now that my wife and I are very open to life there’s also fun there.

I think it is a burden, a cross if you will. I guess in one way it helps you really be aware if you really need to avoid pregnancy. A lot of people/groups speak of nfp and living out the Church’s teachings regarding sex as wonderful and full of nothing but joy. It is not true and I hope no one gave you that impression.In the long run, yes, your conversion and application of the Church’s teachings will yield great fruit, but the daily struggle, desires, etc are not easy.

I do agree it can be a big cross, I recommend prayer. God will lift you up. I prayed (still pray) daily about the issue. That said, I would say to anyone struggling that yes, it can get better actually. Prayer is key, and a willingness to change your own personal view point and standard of what you are looking for in a ‘successful sexual relationship’. I don’t say this because the results with NFP aren’t going to be as gratifying necessarily, but because they will be very differently gratifying.

I know, a really weird concept and I don’t know if I would have accepted it my self at first. But at least for me, it has been true. And I pray for everyone struggling with NFP that they too will find the same thing one day.

And as far as NFP being a sin it is not and I advise you to stay away from those extreme viewpoints, though I am sure some who hold them will comment on your post.

Amen, I recommend everyone personally read Humane Vitae personally. We should be fundamentally open to life yes, but one must also remember that one can for psychological, health and economic reasons. Now one should perhaps decide not to have another baby because if they do they won’t be able to afford the new Porche, that’s really not what is meant by ‘economic’ reasons. But if you have no idea where the money is going to come from to pay the medical bills, if you worry what impact another child will have on the quality of life for your living children. Then by all means avoid. Likewise if you think you can not handle the baby emotionally (like you will fall apart) etc.

I think in time you will begin to see how living this out is good for you and your marriage. But right now the task seems so humongous and such a huge change. I suggest taking it day by day instead of worrying about tomorrow or next week or next year. “Today I am not going to do xyz…” That gets you off the hook for tomorrow and puts you in the here and now. Maybe by focusing on practicing the Church’s teaching in that moment rather than getting anxious for the future, you will see how this conversion is being used to get you closer to God. So for example, today if your wife is fertile and you guys are avoiding but you really want sex/masturbation/etc.and you decide that you aren’t going to act on it, maybe you instead come up with a new way to show your wife you love her or ask her for something else that she CAN give you. I hope that makes sense.

My husband and I struggle with these same issues ourselves. It is hard. Please don’t turn inward and avoid your wife completely when she is not “available.” I think that is a common mistake made by men who struggle to remain chaste within their marriages, especially during their wives’ fertile times. I wish you the best and will keep you in my prayers as you struggle.

Prayer, more prayer, a ton of prayer. And when your done with all that, pray

I’m praying for my family, and I pray for all families struggling with NFP. It can be equally burdonsome on both parties in the relationship, and I have so much compassion for anyone struggling. I know what it’s like, my wife and I only recently started really moving forward with it at all. Until VERY recently we were stuck in the mud completely, NFP issues would come up out of the blue and it was always a huge blowout when it did.

I’m not saying all our problems are over, but I will say God has moved us. I think we’re rolling now, and I think these problems can be overcome by anyone with a willing heart, open to grace and dedicated to prayer.

 

[LongingSoul]

Oh Anthony, I can feel your pain! I have to first say, that I admire your spiritual commitment and openness to the call of the Lord so much. Converts are one great witness to Gods call to His people. I’m a cradle Catholic and was dunked on the way home from the hospital and thankyou God for that… but my faith is immeasurably bolstered by those who have not known the Lord through the Church but have listened and followed just as the Church teaches is possible to anyone. God bless you and your wife!

The thing here is that you’ve had a kind of freedom and indulgence regarding sexual pleasure that’s not been subject to many restraints. It’s going to be like weaning yourself away from alcohol were you a long time over indulger of that. At the beginning it’s agonising. You need a drink to get through the day. You feel like life just isn’t worth living without it. Thing is, the body doesn’t need unlimited sexual satisfaction. Some people actually choose to live entire lives in celibacy for God’s sake.

A few people have already advised approaching this problem just one day at a time and that’s really the best way. In time you’ll come to appreciate life within the restraints of holy Catholic love.

Best wishes to you and your wife on this amazing journey you’ve been on!

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

I just want to pipe up and tell you that you and your wife sound like wonderful people, and your story is really beautiful. Look at how far you’ve come in the 8 years since you married! Do not expect to make this transformation perfectly overnight. As others have said, one day at a time. Focus on today, or this week only. Go to confession when you need to, and start all over again. It will not be this difficult forever. Remember, you even recognize (now) that it was the grace of God that kept you a virgin in high school. His grace will help you through this struggle as well. Prayers.